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We returned last week from our Europe trip. It is hard to believe the frequency and quality of their rail service. At some point I'll post photos. Europe certainly has the technology for HSR on about any route we have in the U.S. Of course what is differenent is the massive federal investment to support that network in Europe.
A few observations: We were on 14 different trains. All but one had facing seats with electric power on both ends. Since most of the large terminals are stub end, the crew simply changed ends and the train departed in the opposite direction with minimal terminal dwell.
Facing seats are not all bad. Between the seat backs is a great place to stow your bag. If you're in 1st class, you can easily talk to your spouse and have the room of the 2-1 (or rather 4-2) seating.
Italy's Frecciarossa HSR trains were the best for comfort and service. And while slightly slower than France, they generally ran 165/175 mph. Imagine Amtrak coming through the train and offering free snack boxes and water, coffee, or Preseco! The food in the bar car looked delicious.
Switzerland was like a Railfan's candy store. So many trains, so many different types and so easy to connect to everything. And while they weren't as fast or luxurious as France or Italy, you sure can't beat the scenery.
Generally, however, the OBS and train crews seemed along for the ride. I observed very little activity of any kind. Perhaps the operation is controlled more directly between the engineer and dispatcher. The conductors didn't bother to collect tickets on all but a couple trains.
France had the fastest trains - usually at 185/mph with one stretch I recorded between Basel and Paris at 196. But, all their HSR equipment looked a little threadbare - sort of like an Amtrak Superliner. One of the trains had their newer double decker HS cars - but it too looked a little tired.
The main terminals were like NYP on steroids. The only saving grace - they were generally on only one of two levels. But like NYP, they kept you waiting to see what track to run for. I think it was Milan that had 46 tracks.
The strangest train was the Rothhorn cog railroad - two car steam powered. Spectacular trip as was the Bernina Express. What a ride. On two routes what seemingly was a 'normal' train running at decent speeds would, when they encountered a grade, activate the cog gears for the ascent and descent. These were not tourist operations but operated with commuter train frequency out of Lucerne.
Maybe the most relaxing train was the pleasant train to Normandy from Paris. Traditional single level coaches with forward facing seats and very nicely furnished with comfortable seats, window curtains and a good rail fan window in the last car of the train we were in.
And for airline fans out there, my new favorite airline is Aegean - based in Athens. I was a little dubious about booking a cheap fare on them. But it was very impressive for a regional airline. The flight attendents all looked like they stepped out of a Paris fashion show. The uniforms were very retro complete with old stewardess style hats. Their cabin service looked almost like it was choregraphed. And on our two hour flight in coach at 4pm we were served a delicious hot pasta meal and all the wine we wanted.
I think it was Basel, we saw cars for the Austrian Night Jet service. It would be fun to try that - next trip.
But we're glad to be home and can get back to discussing the latest misfortunes of Amtrak.
Laurie, feel free to move this post to another forum if you want.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thank you so much for this fine report. I really appreciate when contributors take the time to do this.
The Bernina Express continues to be my favorite European train. The big windows. The spectacular scenery that varies from the Alps to the vineyards of Italy. I wouldn't want it to go any faster.
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Thanks, Don. It was a great trip. One of our favorite small towns was Tirano where we spent the night before riding the Bernina Express. We woke to snow on the mountains and the rail yard reminded me of a model RR.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Possibly this has changed since I was "over there" last August, but I was astounded how "open" are railroad facilities.
Considering that Amtrak might, in addition to lifting tickets as passengers are "streetcared" aboard, start frisking them (in the wake of the Naperville incident - there have been no reports that the Conductor has been discharged), you just walk to the platform, take pictures of whatever, and board your train - often at an entrance where no crew member is stationed. Tickets? do they even sell them on board? But I understand if caught without one, that's a criminal offense. I'very had my share of trips on the Munich S-Bahn where no one has looked.
Now as far as on board courtesy, knowledge of English is not a requirement to be Conductor on the OBB, but is so of the outside catering company OBB uses. These attractive young women all speak better English than do I. During '15, on.my final full day over, and I was fresh out of €€, I ordered a half bottle traveling from Vienna. Credit card was fine for the purchase, but not the tip. This gal couldn't have been nicer when I "stiffed" her.
Finally Mr. Palmland just think, what if you were a kid and you lived inside Disneyland. You could go on the rides to your heart's content, but might it "get old?".
I think the analogy I draw is obvious.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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GBN, in the smaller stations access to the platforms was not an issue, I wandered at will. Not so in the big cities, at least in Italy and France. You could pass through the gate to the platform only when you knew the platform for your departing train and could show your ticket. My only opportunity for photos in those cities was after getting off a train when walking into the station or when boarding. Lucerne, however, had a more relaxed attitude as you describe.
I suppose I could get a bit jaded about a railfan 'candy store' if I OD'd on train watching in, say, Switzerland. But I prefer to just enjoy it, and not worry about what might happen. My only regret-waiting so long to go to 'the continent' as our last trip was in '91. For our next trip, I think we'd like to either go back to the Tuscany area and/or to the UK again.
As to wine, we never had a bad bottle and they were all relatively inexpensive. We had a small daypack with two bottles. One had water, the other wine. Wine was good and inexpensive (but we are not connoisseurs.) On the train we had our wine along with a baguette and local cheese. Why is bread so good in Europe and bland over here? In fact since we had been in some of the cities before and seen the sights we enjoyed just hanging out in cafes.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thanks for the great report! Our experiences on trains in Europe -- with the exception of the UK -- have all been very good to excellent. As for tickets, I can't remember ever having them checked ON the train. In Madrid heading to Barcelona we had to show them at Security and again at the Gate but they were never collected.
Our next adventure will have us riding High Speed Rail in Japan and China (Shanghai to Beijing). That's after a TransPacific cruise from Vancouver to Yokohama.
We have used EasyJet twice in Europe. The price is always right even if the seating is tight. The crews do an amazing job of selling a wide assortment of hot and cold food, wine, liquor and duty free -- usually in two currencies plus credit cards on a two hour flight! We have also been spoiled on Lufthansa in Business Class from Madrid to Munich.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Frank, I considered Easy Jet for our Athens-Rome flight but the fare was comparable (booked in advance) to Aegean Air that had good reviews. Hard to beat good fares, free food and booze, and flight attendants that were really good at their job.
But the best part of the trip was not the trains or all the sights but rather visiting good friends who live in a small town in Greece.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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We are happy to welcome you to this year’s Salzburg Festival. Unfortunately, security has become a subject that dominates the thoughts of all presenters worldwide. At the Salzburg Festival, we have been working on strengthening and improving the existing security measures at our theatres and our performance venues.
We have always believed that security is something one takes care of without discussing it. However, some things do require saying. Therefore, allow us to give you some tips on how to make your attendance at our performances as stress-free as possible, despite heightened security:
� Since expanded police controls cannot be ruled out, please allow a little more time than usual to arrive at the various performance venues and enter the various performance venues. We recommend arriving about 30 minutes before the beginning of the performance.
� Please carry a valid official ID with you, in order to identify yourself if necessary.
� For security reasons, the following items may not be brought to the performance venues:
- Bulky items, such as suitcases, bags, backpacks or similar luggage. We cannot store these items in the cloakrooms for you. Should you be required to depart directly after a performance, we recommend discussing storing your luggage at your hotel with the hotel in advance, or to check it into a locker at the train station.
- Sharp or pointed objects, or any object that is considered dangerous and may be used as a weapon.
On behalf of the Salzburg Festival, we thank you in advance for your help and understanding and wish you a particularly enjoyable and interesting Festival summer.
Kindest regards,
I always thought things were a bit lax, no frisking, not even a peek in a tote bag that I always have for my walking shoes (1.2 "klicks" away from my hotel; events are quite dressy).
So if you're "going over" this year, expect more of same at any public venue; this could even include "Gleis" - tracks.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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GBN, as you say, not surprising. We encountered metal detectors when entering many of the more famous cathedrals. What a shame our world is like that now. But, I remember our son telling us how startled he was in the 90's when he was a summer student in Italiy. On the train from Milan guys in military uniforms came through the train looking very serious with their automatic weapons. That was visible too on our trip in every major station and airport.
Also of interest, was the relatively quick pass through of the metal detectors in the Paris airport. But, a big difference from the US TSA protocol, was what happened before those detectors. There was a line when checking into AA as expected. But when it was our turn we weren't directed to the agent, but rather to a holding pen in front of the ticket counters. Here, a surprisingly disarming security official (lots of smiles and a couple routine questions) totally surprised us. Then, standing quite close and staring into my eyes, he asked a totallly unexpected question: what are your hobbies? I almost laughed but stifled it and I think they were sorry they asked (even pulled out a photo on my phone of my model RR.) I suspect they had some specific things they're were looking for with that line of questioning that our routine TSA inspections might miss. Since all passengers in line underwent this procedure, it resulted in a long process, guess that's why they said we needed 3 hours to check in. They were right. Part of that was just finding AA counters, CDG make ATL look like a small town airport.
And then waiting to board at the gate, the the agent asked maybe a dozen passengers to approach their desk. My wife was one of them. She (and I, snice we were traveling together) were led down to the end of the jetway. I was then separated from her and she underwent a detailed inspection personally and of her belongings. The only good thing out of that - we were among the first to board!
On the other hand, on the flight from Athens to Rome on Aegean Airlines involved very little security, much like our domestic flights and maybe not even that stringent. Security lines were clearly marked: all passengers traveling within the EU, in one line, all others in the long line.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Also of interest, was the relatively quick pass through of the metal detectors in the Paris airport. But, a big difference from the US TSA protocol, was what happened before those detectors. There was a line when checking into AA as expected. But when it was our turn we weren't directed to the agent, but rather to a holding pen in front of the ticket counters. Here, a surprisingly disarming security official (lots of smiles and a couple routine questions) totally surprised us. Then, standing quite close and staring into my eyes, he asked a totallly unexpected question: what are your hobbies? I almost laughed but stifled it and I think they were sorry they asked (even pulled out a photo on my phone of my model RR.) I suspect they had some specific things they're were looking for with that line of questioning that our routine TSA inspections might miss. Since all passengers in line underwent this procedure, it resulted in a long process, guess that's why they said we needed 3 hours to check in. They were right. Part of that was just finding AA counters, CDG make ATL look like a small town airport.
I would suspect that this routine comes under the heading of "profiling" which is not permissible in US law thanks to multiple court proceedings.
However, I will say this sort of "profiling" was done, at least in the 1990's. We had this experience when traveling in the US on our annual home leave: We were always pulled out for special inspection when catching flights in the US. After having this experience several times, I asked why? The answer was simple: You have an overseas originating set of tickets.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Richard, I doubt I could ever find justification for spending $10,000 for an overnight train trip (well maybe, if I had the money, for a PV excursion). But good to hear luxury train service is alive and well in Japan.
George, I suspect you are right about the one way ticket being a red flag. We had that since our trip over was a separate ticket to Athens.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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At this site, there is a link to a 228 page PDF formatted report (in English) of a recent study regarding European Night Trains.
In three words, "they're done for".
Here is a shorter "to the point" article summarizing the report.
While discussion of the Night Trains should move forth over at the Passenger/International Forum, in Western Continental Europe, they are being withdrawn "alarmingly". Since Eastern Europe still has much "catching up" to do, they are somewhat more alive, but "the writing is on the wall".
There is one exception and that is the Austrian OBB. They have rebranded their Night Trains as the NightJet and have acquired from Germany, cars that were surplus as their City Night service was cut back.
The report suggests that since routes to States such as the Balkan and the Slovaks all pass through the length of Austria, the OBB must figure there will remain a market. But as the report notes, the market is to the Econosnooze crowd looking to save on hotels. The Business segment is lost either to HSR or the discount air carriers.
Next week I'll be over where "the hills are alive with the Sound of Music", and I doubt if an OBB Night Jet is on my "to do" list. Why when "others rush out, we rush in" escapes me.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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How can you resist, GBN? Great opportunity to go, say, Vienna to Milan overnight and fly home from there. But in any event, have a great trip and enjoy the concert.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I'm thinking of a day trip to Vienna over the Southern route via Bischofen, Loeben, and over Semmering Pass; return on a Rail Jet direct to Salzburg via Linz. I still have this desire to see the Riesenrad featured in the movie "The Third Man".
Also thinking of an excursion to Bechtersgarten - "because it's there".
Now if I May be allowed an off topic diversion about my "Ahab quest" of the Riesenrad?
I first "saw" it watching the movie "The Third Man" (considered an all time "great"). During my '15 trip. I went to Vienna, but leaving the Hbf, I started to walk due East. I thought I'd be in Stadtmitte - the heart of the city, but no. I had a "good" buffet Lunch (washed down with Grape Juice of course) at a Hilton, then realized I was North of the "Stadtmitte". I took a taxicab back to Hbf, but in the process, he gave me a "tour of the city", whether asked for or not. On the "tour", I saw the Riesenrad out the taxicab's rear window.
Last year. I also took a day trip to Vienna. This time, Mr. Google got me so hopelessly lost that I was walking in circles. I gave up, saw a leading hotel, Sacher, had Lunch in their Red Dining Room (any wonder why I always have a jacket with me?) including one of their world famous Tortes, and took a taxicab back to Hbf.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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- European conductors did come through, check your ticket or rail pass, and were on their way.
- German (DSG) dining cars were only on the InterCity class trains. Everything else had at best a cart, or you grabbed something at the station. (But, Munich-Hamburg really is only 2 meals out).
- By the time I travelled in the late 80s, only the TEE Rheingold had a lounge car.
What you all say sounds reminiscent of that, being brought 30 years forward.
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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The flight was on time, and I just got on the first train, a Euro City, to Salzburg. But Fraulein DB Conductrix had other ideas.
Apparently my ticket is good only on the Meridians, if I wanted to part with €15,00, I could have stayed. Forget it girl. Can't get into the hotel until 3.
The flight was on a brand new 777-300ER, and my overall thought is "good". The Polaris cabin looks like a rabbit warren. Everybody has their private "cube". The Pork Chop and cheese omlette I'm afraid puts Amtrak to shame. The Chardonnay was a Concannon. Service was great, but then it helps that the Attendant I know, Maureen, is "gal pal" with the First Attendant.
Intentional or otherwise, I got to sit back in "The Gulag". I was taking a walk through the Aft cabin when suddenly there was some turbulence. I grabbed the first open seat. They just are too darned tight.
Well, now on the Meridian train just now leaving.
Sieg Heil. DB
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Today I'm off to Vienna on a joyride. My routing is this train to Leoben which is the Southern route through Austria. I'm told it's very scenic. Then Leoben to Vienna over the Semmering Pass, and hopefully to fill my quest to see/ride the Reisenrad.
Return will be on a RailJet and no I don't intend to be Harry (Orson Wells) almost pushed of by Holly (Joseph Cotten) in "The Third Man".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Well, this RailJet isn't RailJet equipment, but rather regular IC.
Guess what, four Politzei just showed and it looks like some "police activity" is "going down" right now, stay tuned.
Now ascending over Semmering.
addendum: now learned from a DC waitress it's migrants who have nothing, i.e. €€ or documents.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sounds like you're having a good time, GBN. I've heard Semmering Pass is quite scenic. How was it?
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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The police activity, Middle East farehoppers who had nothing - money or documents.
Semmering Pass is a "ride", but really not THAT scenic, no mountaintop vistas to speak of. Most scenic on the route is Salzburg-Bischofen along the Salt River. But I just "had to do it".
I've now "done" the Reisenrad. Not that big a deal; but I just had to do it before I'm called topside with no return.
Now on RailJet 742 coming into St. Polten. The speedo has shown 200kph.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I've witnessed such "police activity" rolling into France from Spain on an ancient dilapidated Tango--an aberration among all the modern trains I've experienced in Spain.
They may not have wanted any of Barcelona's pickpocket covens to swell the numbers of them in Paris these days.
As they checked papers, those French officers were a formidable presence indeed. I wouldn't want cross them.
I've now had a chance to see up close and personal a NightJet car at the Hbf. there were two, a Couchette and a Bedroom.
Volks, it's "lipstick on a pig" to me - and even a year in, the NightJet livery looks like a "better get Maaco" job.
I doubt if they will attract anyone beyond the backpack and others in the Econocrowd.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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From Imlauer Brau (tables with a view of sorts)--
Just saw the LONGEST freight I've seen over here. Thirty two 15m boxcars.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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