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Just returned from a roundtrip Milwaukee to San Diego via Chicago and LA, SW Chief and connections.
While security on Amtrak appears to be lax or nonexistant because little is evident at the time of boarding, enroute checks may trip the unwary. INS and DEA agents boarded the Chief at two stations between LA and Chicago checking tickets and ids as well as inspecting luggage. I saw a total of twelve passengers removed from the train, there may have been more. One agent explained that because Amtrak security is lax, people without proper documentation and those transporting illegal drugs assume Amtrak is a good way to go. I've seen similar checks on other trains as well.
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Additional measures of security for Amtrak include, but aren't limited to, the following (paraphrased from a post on the Amtrak Unlimited website): People who have made prior reservations will receive less visible scrutiny, as their names were already checked with security and police databases through the computer system when the reservation was made. Amtrak has also increased the number of plain clothed police officers on its trains. There are also other measures that have been taken, which have not been made public simply because making them public would give a terrorist the info he/she needs to defeat the measure. That said, yes it is still possible to have a problem or a security breach. In fact less than three months ago a man traveled from Chicago to NY on the Lake Shore Limited carrying a gun. He later fired that gun, during a protest at the United Nations here in NY. Had this man shown the gun even once while on board the train the conductor would have stopped the train and had him arrested. Now yes a metal detector in Chicago might have caught that gun, but he could just as easily boarded the train at a small station where it would never be practical or even possible to install a metal detector. Additionally it would be very hard to use metal detectors in a large station such as NY or Chicago. For one reason, once you’ve checked and scanned a passenger you now need to keep him or her separated from the commuter passengers who are also using the same station. In NY for example this would be next to impossible. You also couldn’t possibly scan each and every passenger entering the terminal regardless of what type of train they were riding. NY’s Penn station handles 300,000 passengers each and every day. I doubt that you could properly scan that many people in one day, to say nothing of the chaos that would ensue during rush hour when probably close to a third of those 300,000 people show up wanting to go home on their trains. Even if you could keep Amtrak passengers separated from commuter passengers something that I doubt is possible, you would still have a very large job as close to 30,000 passengers board Amtrak trains here in NY each day. It should also be mentioned that it’s simply not possible nor is it practical to hijack a train. First of all one cannot gain access to the engine while the train is in motion. Secondly even if you did gain access to the engine at a station you are still stuck on the train tracks. You can only go where the tracks go, so you can’t crash the train into a building. On top of that, unlike the air traffic controllers who looked on helplessly as the planes crashed into the buildings, the controllers for the trains can still direct a hijacked train where they want it to go and not where the hijacker might want it to go. Also with the newer control systems being installed in trains, a controller could stop a train over the objections of a hijacker. The hijacker would be helpless to prevent the train from stopping. Because of the nature of train travel, it will never be possible to fully secure the trains, unless we as Americans are willing to give up our right to travel anywhere at any time we like. If we do give up that right, then the terrorists have won. They’ve forced us to change our way of life, something that they are jealous of. It should also be noted that there are a few measures that Amtrak has tried to implement, only to have civil liberties groups oppose them. In fact part of the random ID checking program while on board a train, was just pulled from implementation because of objections by civil liberty groups.
Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Just to compare, the Eurostar between London and Paris/Brussels is subject to airline style security. The international section of the station is segregated from the domestic side and you are required to put your bags through an X-ray machine and yourself go through a metal detector. Passports or identity cards are required for all passengers (even babies have them these days).
Having said that, there are only something like 20 trains a day from Waterloo, each seating maybe 600 people.
Geoff M.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Part of travelling by rail is not being subjected to intense, mostly useless, security measures similar to the airports. If I want to bring a pocket knife or a gun with me when I travel; I don't see that as any business of the transportation mode that I choose. I vaguely understand that a gun allowed on a plane might be a problem, but if the "good guys" are armed, the "bad guys" have a disadvantage.
On Amtrak, what are the "bad guys" gonna do? Lay some track into a building and hijack a train to run over those newly laid track in order to hit the building? Hijack a train to where? Hold the train for ransom? Blow it up for the terroristic symbolism?
Yea....right........
If that's attempted, everyone carrying their own gun will pull it and help those terrorists achieve their "just rewards" at the feet of Allah.
On the other hand, those surprise inspections by the INS/DEA/FBI seem to be working. They're capturing the "bad guys" and "escorting" them off of the train.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I feel most comfortable if no one is allowed to have anything that could harm me. That's it.
And obviously, you're right, they aren't going to "hijack" the train in the traditional sense. But I don't know...there are just crazy people out there. I want to know that I'll be safe. Also, as far as safety altogether is concerned, there could be some terrorism acts, such as sabotaging the tracks before the train goes over. I realize that it shouldn't have anything to do with what's on board the train, but it should be realized that terrorism is still a possibility with railroads as well.
[This message has been edited by tubaallen (edited 01-25-2003).]
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tuballen, Better not give anyone dinnerware in the diner, then, and better start confiscating pencils, umbrellas, etc.
Posts: 190 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Dec 2002
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C'mon. Let's be serious here, can we? Let's not take this to the extreme with sarcasm.
I am merely saying that I think it makes sens to not allow passengers to carry any kind of weapon they choose. I don't think that is a very strange idea.
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Is there any updated information on this issue.
We will be taking our first Amtrak trip, LAX to SOL. We usually travel by air, and I put my Swiss army knife in my checked baggage, but AMTRAK seems to consider checked baggage and carry-on to be the same, and precludes "swords", etc. I emailed them and they said knives are "prohibited entirely", and they have a blurb on their web site that says they are getting serious about luggage rules.
I haven't been to a domestic rail station since steam engines were used, so I have no idea if their security compares to that at the airports.
Posts: 15 | From: Lakewood, Ohio, USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I travel frequently from PHL to WAS and NYP, and my pocketknife has remained safe and unconfiscated for many, many trips.
Amtrak security is largely notional. I have bought a ticket on-line, picked it up at a QuickTrack machine, gone down an unattended stairway to the platform, and boarded the train unchallenged. My first contact is usually with the conductor when he lifts my ticket.
As noted, you can't screen 300,000 passengers per day.
All that having been said, years before 9/11 I watched police and border agents remove a half dozen Asian passengers from the Toronto -- Chicago train, but of course that was during the Customs check.
Bottom line: take what you want (within reason) and don't worry too much. I would suggest you leave beyond bayonets, large samurai swords, machine guns, hand grenades, and similar items, though.
Posts: 614 | From: Merchantville, NJ. USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by clevelandbrown: I haven't been to a domestic rail station since steam engines were used, so I have no idea if their security compares to that at the airports.
I can't speak for luggage, but as for your person, no comparison. No screening of carry-ons; no walking through a metal-detector.
Posts: 874 | From: South Bay (LA County), Calif, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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