2. The Sunset Limited might be a more profittable train except for the fact that it only runs 3 times a week. Why? I've been told because UP will not allow them to run any trains on that line. The Sunsets that do run on the line-UP can't or/refuse to run them on time. I've always have been told that Amtrak trains are SUPPOSE to be given priority in dispatching. I've come to find out, boy is that a pipe-dream.

3. Amtrak's recent request to do a study on the feasibility of running a poassenger train over the Tehachapis drew a 'Go to hell' response from UP. In case you don't know, this would connect Bakersfield, Fresno, and other San Joaquin Valley cities with Los Angeles without the need to transfer on to a bus in Bakersfield. In response to UP, there was a comic strip in a recent issue of California Rail news lampooning UP-referring to them as 'Union Pathetic'.

Why is Amtrak and UP's relationship so embittered?

Does Amtrak have as poor of a relationship with BNSF and other railroads?

I would like some comment and even more so some history.

I'm in no way related to BNSF by the way, just impressed by the company.

2. Tehachapi...still has some one track segments, and the line is still too busy. Also that round-about segment to LA would be awesome for railfans but I wonder if the public would sit for it? But as you mention it would include the Central Valley on a through route, and bring some other California communities onto the national network, so the "on the way" stops could add passengers assuming the station stops are not in the wee hours.

3. The UP line from LA-Salt Lake is mostly single track but with many long freights. The (late & lamented) Desert Wind almost always took the sidings for meets because some of the passing tracks were too short for the freights.

Timekeeping on the Starlight has improved tremendously in the past year. I know UP was having to do a lot of maintenance that Southern Pacific had neglected before the UP buyout. I was on the Starlight two years ago and we suffered terrible delays because of trackwork. But most of that is done now, and timekeeping is much better now. I think David Gunn may have had a railroader to railroader talk with UP that also helped.

As for the proposed overnight train over the Tehachipis, I'm inclined to agree with UP that the proposal was a non starter. Amtrak calculated a 5 to 7 hour trip over the mountains. The Throughway bus currently takes about 2 hours. Anything more than 3 hours for a train is pointless.

But UP does seem to favor its trains over Amtrak. Here's an interesting statistic. In 2000 UP paid $1.2 million to Amtrak for late train penalties. It was the only railroad in the country that paid penalties that year. The same year BNSF received $12 million from Amtrak in on-time incentive rewards. David Gunn, in one inteview said BNSF considers Amtrak to be a "profit center." Its not hard to see why.

On another board some argued that the $1.2 million that UP paid was a drop in the bucket compared to UP's total revenues, and thye could afford to lose it. But that is still a lot of money. UP could have paid $50,000 a year to 24 employees for what it paid to Amtrak. BNSF could afford to pay $50,000 to 240 employees with what it received from Amtrak in incentives.

Clearly there is a very different corporate culture at BNSF. Santa Fe gave up its flagship passenger services very reluctantly, and it still seems to consider quality passenger services on its tracks as a matter of corporate pride. I also think BNSF may be a more progressive company. It is an interesting coincidence that UP is the only major railroad in the US that still has the same name that it had in the 19th century.

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

UP left the passenger business on May 2, 1971, when the last City of Everywhere arrived in LA, Oakland, and Chicago. Thereafter it had the Denver to Salt Lake segment of the SFZ, until the Rio Grande bailed. Then, it had nothing.

For a while, UP had the Desert Wind somewhat forced upon it, as the LA-Ogden line heated up.

Meanwhile, back at the Mustang Ranch, the codgers at 1 Market Plaza (you know that place, Mr Toy, it's the home of YOUR railroad, the EssPee...) continued to be somewhat put upon for rail service ... Zephyr into JLS, Daylight/Starlight, Sunset, ad infinitum. Folks at 1 Market really don't like passenger.

BTW, how much is Amtrak now ponying up for infrastructure??? BTW, do I not recall that in the early 90s, SP (pre-merger) was down to just the Starlight on the Coast Route, and was contemplating abandonment.

John

And I actually don't know where or what 1 Market Plaza is. There are some gaps in my knowledge, to be sure.

As to your question, how much is Amtrak putting up for infrastructure? I don't know, but with UP giving some of it back in penalties, UP certainly isn't getting all it could. The more Amtrak trains run on time, the more UP gets.

------------------
Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

Thanks for the info about 1 Market Plaza. Does UP operate a regional office out of there now?

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

UP inherited some poor track from SP in the merger and has had to spend time and money on repairs. Which results in delays for Amtrak.

But I do know, from my experience, that BNSF gives the highest priority to the Southwest Chief when it is running close to on time. I live close to the Fullerton to Riverside portion of the line and listen in with my scanner. The San Bernardino dispatcher often calls train #4 to see what it's arival and departure times were for Fullerton. And if there are any potential frieghts that might slow the SWC, it's usually the freight that has to wait. Even for the hottest Z trains! Although if the SWC is running late, it seems to lose it's priority.

I don't think UP is using the old SP HQ; I think the building was sold. SP's tracks were not in the best shape but it did own a lot of valuable real estate purchased piecemeal in the 1800's...

IIRC (as in Nov or Dec Trains or else 4Q 2002 CLassic Trains), both UP and SF waited to the last minute to commit to Amtrak. Reason was both of them were proud of the quality operations they delivered.

FWIW, my travels on UP trackage have been pretty close to "on time." My worst experience on Amtrak was with BNSF, when a freight ahead of the CZ died on the clock and had not made the next passing siding. It tied up the Nebraska racetrack for a good three hours.

I've also seen the CZ wb 7 hours late. A wreck on BNSF was so bad that Amtrak had to back up to get to a UP interchange, and then divert onto UP to get back to Omaha.

John