posted
At least both will be in a TV studio with no audience.
Jerry Springer; "You're Fired"!!!!
But it would behoove both Trump and Joe to stick to the issues so that an undecided voter can determine who will be the best captain of our "ship of state".
The debates are for the 40% of voters who could go either way. For the others, with the entertainment value being zero (as it should be), may as well find something else to do.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Although 40% of voters classify themselves as Independent, do not think for a moment that they all could go "either way." I doubt that more than about 5% of voters are still on the fence in our polarized society.
Posts: 1567 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I have no intention of watching the debates unless the alternative is to get a filling after the dentist ran out of Novocain. Inclined to agree that the number of undecided is far under 40%, but think it is probably over 5%. I suspect most of these undecideds were Biden voters last time, as I have seen nothing in Biden that would cause previous Trump voters to consider changing their minds.
Posts: 2953 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
George, I think it's a question of seeing things in Trump that would cause previous Trump voters to change their minds.
Posts: 1567 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Messrs. Harris and Mike, if I watch them, it will be for entertainment as distinct from being informed of the candidates' respective views of the issues.
To me, it was a sacrilege to have that debate in Miami held at the same venue (Arsht PAC) at which I have heard Beethoven's 9th, Sibelius' 2nd, Tchaikovsky's 6th, et magna alia, performed over the years to be the setting for some kind of "Jerry Springer Show".
Finally though, I'm at a loss to see why frontrunner Trump wants these debates. In a closed studio, he has little chance of creating any kind of "rally scene" that he thrives upon. During the Primaries, where he was as good as the Republican frontrunner ever since Iowa (and now, AFAIC, simply the frontrunner), he avoided them letting Swami be the entertainer.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
The Times, while not exactly endorsing debates this election cycle, provides a history of the "ups and downs" of the televised varietal of such:
Fair Use:
quote:The debate tradition itself is, in the scope of U.S. history, pretty modern.
The first televised general-election debates were held in 1960, but they would not be repeated for 16 years. The tradition that now exists — with debates conducted every four years and a refusal to participate constituting a breach of norms — dates back less than 50 years, to 1976.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Let's hope that these two debates do not touch on the fact that one of the participants is a convicted felon.
That participant, Mr. Trump, has been released ROR (own recognizance in that he knows where he must be July 11 for sentencing; possibly he surrendered his Passport) and is free to run for President. One TV commentator yesterday noted this was the Father's intent; let the Electors decide.
Further, this same lawyer-commentator, noted Mr. Trump - be he POTUS47 notwithstanding; will remain a convicted felon until such time that an appellate court overturns the thirty four convictions and remands the case back to the lower court. At such time the prosecution, if it chooses, can reinstate the case with new charges.
Incidentally, the "Limitation Clock" stops ticking while the case is appealed.
In short, that I'm now almost 83yo, I do not expect to see how this case, let alone the two pending Federal cases, is adjudicated.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Here is a Journal article largely concurring with the points made by the NBC News commentator as I understood them.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Whether or not these farcical felony convictions get overturned or upheld has no bearing on my thoughts on this race. So far as I am concerned, this Kangaroo Court Soviet Style Show Trial process and its outcome is meaningless.
Posts: 2953 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Well, the Democratic Party and its allies are currently showing what they think of the debate and what they feel they need to do about it. The phrase “panic mode” is being bandied about everywhere in the media today, and I confess that it’s tiresome already.
Posts: 847 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Influential and respected Times columnist Tom Friedman is saying today "it's time, Joe".
Fair Use:
quote:I watched the Biden-Trump debate alone in a Lisbon hotel room, and it made me weep. I cannot remember a more heartbreaking moment in American presidential campaign politics in my lifetime, precisely because of what it revealed: Joe Biden, a good man and a good president, has no business running for re-election.
Democrats, it's time for the "smoke filled room" - or otherwise "the old pre-primary way" (or when the Roman Catholic Church will soon be called upon to choose a new Pope).
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Well, my opinion of Friedman is somewhat lower than that. His paper’s editorial board has joined in the chorus, though.
quote:… It should be remembered that Mr. Biden challenged Mr. Trump to this verbal duel. He set the rules, and he insisted on a date months earlier than any previous general election debate. He understood that he needed to address longstanding public concerns about his mental acuity and that he needed to do so as soon as possible.
The truth Mr. Biden needs to confront now is that he failed his own test.
In polls and interviews, voters say they are seeking fresh voices to take on Mr. Trump. And the consolation for Mr. Biden and his supporters is that there is still time to rally behind a different candidate. While Americans are conditioned to the long slog of multiyear presidential elections, in many democracies, campaigns are staged in the space of a few months. …
This selfsame editorial board is way out of touch with what voters are seeking.
Posts: 847 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Thank you, Mr. Helfner; I too would have posted this Editorial (likely will appear in print in the Sunday edition - double the circulation of Daily), but Gray Lady only allows linking by subscribers ten articles a month (nice of her; she gets $1700 a year out of me to hear that "thump on the porch") - and I was "tapped out".
But more to the point; Joe had best withdraw (maybe even resign to give Kamala a "leg up" in the "smoke filled room") if the Democrats are even to have a slim chance with "take your pick" Gavin, Gretchen, Kamala, or Kathy.
The staged event in Raleigh yesterday with Jill leading Joe onto the podium and then warming up the crowd after his handlers put some make-up on him, got a teleprompter revving, and juiced him up with whatever potion they used for the SOTU, did not impress me in the least. What kind of Manchurian Candidate is he?
Get ready, for better or worse, to accept that Trump will be POTUS47.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Relax - 4 months is a long time, and unexpected crap has a way of happening. Overreaction is for those who are unable to take the long view.
Posts: 1567 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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But I think that the damage from the Debate was so severe that we had best accept that DJT will be POTUS 47 on Jan 20.
Even if two other participants at this discussion will welcome such, at least you and I will not. If we still have elections, as distinct from "elections" come '28, maybe we can have a return to "normalcy".
Finally, should Joe drop, expect the likely replacement will come from a "Purple" state that could go either way. That would mean the candidate would be Gretchen or Josh (Shapiro Gov PA). It won't be Gavin, Kamala, or Kathy - their states are deep Blue. They will simply have to play "wait 'till '28".
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: Relax — 4 months is a long time, and unexpected crap has a way of happening. Overreaction is for those who are unable to take the long view.
Don’t know what you mean by that. Conflagrations in major cities such as were perpetrated by BLM and Antifa were apparently unexpected.
Posts: 847 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I think there's a lot going on behind the scenes. True, Karine is out there "spouting the party line", but the fact remains a consensus of polls show that Joe has lost six points that he can't afford to lose since the debate.
Will he release all his delegates to be "free agents" or will he direct them to one candidate that he prefers? (could it be Kamala)? The "goings on," must be like those Bachleor TV shows with all the brides to be yelling "me, me, me".
But I think the message is there; Joe will withdraw. What remains will the delegates be released and the Democrats revert to "smoke filled rooms", or will there be an "anointed one" coming out from what appears to be going on at present?
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:… Trump’s post (on Truth Social) said the rules for the debate next month would not allow any prewritten notes, and candidates would stand throughout. In June, each candidate’s microphone was muted when they were not recognized by moderators to speak; that aspect was not mentioned in Trump’s Tuesday post. …
… While Trump had pushed for additional debates on Fox News and NBC News in September, the Harris campaign said it would only agree to the ABC News event before discussing a potential second presidential debate. …
posted
While ignoring the June 28 "Nolo Contendere", I'm sorry, but Trump's conduct during the '20 debate was simply reprehensible. To avoid any rerun of such, muted mics are the "order of the day". The absence of a studio audience will help in keeping the debate constructive and not some kind of Jerry Springer Show.
Now Kamala is not "off my hook" for debate misconduct as well; her '20 "put down" of Joe regarding the school busing issue, while it made for good theatre, was uncalled for.
Otherwise, I think fair as both will be required to "think on their feet"; no notes, no AI, no Teleprompters. If either revert to memorized "stump speech lines", that will be to their detriments.
Otherwise, have your alcohol fueled partisan watch parties, but they will be away from the TV studio.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Examples of alleged “reprehensible” behavior?
On the other side, this year I am not enamored with the use of Maoist and even national socialist rhetoric, particularly the use of the word “joy” which is in common with those left-wing movements.
Posts: 847 | Registered: Mar 2002
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But all told, the "Ode..." has got to be one of the most exciting and moving works within the "classical" repertory.
Allow me to relate how during this past June at South Kent School, the "prep" school I attended (Class '61), it was Alumni Weekend (don't forget the checkbook, 'Lums) and time for Chapel. One of the hymns selected was "Joyful, joyful we adore thee", which, at least in the Episcopal Hymnal, is to Beethoven's "Ode" tune. The opening stanza starts "Joyful, joyful we adore thee...", but without even looking at the Hymnal, I start singing "Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium....."
Well that cost me a smile, yet glare, from one of my Classmates - and a Provost no less (yes Provost, Sir).
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
On the eve of the Debate, this Journal columnist did quite the job at "tearing both of 'em apart" but yet pointing out their strengths and weaknesses:
Fair Use:
quote:Here is the gloomy version of the 2024 election: Which is the lesser of the two lousies?
The essence of the case against Donald Trump: A democracy can’t be entrusted to an autocrat, especially one as unprincipled and unstable as he. He believes in the democratic process only when it affirms him and his sovereign ego.......The argument against Kamala Harris: Until the day before yesterday, almost everyone agreed she was a mediocre vice president. She was Joe Biden’s insurance policy. No one, the argument went, would want him to quit the presidency and leave it in the hands of such an empty suit........But let’s consider sunnier scenarios. First, the optimistic argument in favor of Mr. Trump: He is a genuine though obnoxious patriot, whose policies on immigration, the economy, Russia, China and the Middle East would be stronger, more decisive and more credible than the weak, ambivalent performance of the Biden-Harris team........Perhaps it is true that Ms. Harris represents a breakthrough, a new evolution, a new future. Maybe she has been sent by America’s special providence to rescue the country from a spent generation of leaders, to tell the world: This is no country for old men.
All told, if you are a political junkie, next Tuesday will be the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA Playoffs, and Stanley Cup all rolled into one event.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Any news outlet I review holds that Kamala won the now one and only Debate.
While an endorsement from Ricardo Muti or Franz Welser-Most would have more weight with me than one from Taylor Swift, such has a large impact on young voters.
Now will the Debate victory (I have yet to learn of any recognized newssource stating Trump won; maybe some alt-right source holds that) and (what some could say) THE celebrity endorsement result in a Kamala breakout? Tune in for that when the pollsters start reporting.
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I do not call repeating debunked claims and digressing about a middle-class upbringing that did not exist a win, but that's just me. Same goes with multifarious refuals to check facts.
Posts: 847 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Journal columnist Peggy Noonan is sure set to call a winner - and the Taylor Swift endorsement is simply icing on the cake:
Fair Use:
quote:Ms. Swift’s a real athlete too. And there is no way, in a 50/50 race, her decision won’t have impact.
Finally, it appears the momentun is developing; could this be the start of a "breakout"?
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Unsurprising that the Harris campaign would pick CNN, a venue even friendlier to her than ABC. They still adamantly refuse to do a debate on Fox, however.
A number of weeks later and it seems that Swifties are more independently minded than their favorite musician, too.
quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: “Many of the truths that we cling to depend (greatly) on our (own) point of view.” - Yoda
That was Obi-Wan, in fact.
In retrospect, that is a little too reminiscent of O’Brien of 1984 insofar as denial of objective reality. One would expect such things from the Sith rather than the Jedi, correct?
Posts: 847 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Even PBS has been considered to have a "lefty bias", but might CSPAN meet whatever test for neutrality held by various "partisans"?
But whomever is to host a second debate, keep the audience away and the mics muted. Jerry Springer (decd; 2023) is now off the air; need we have a revival?
Posts: 10761 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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