RAILforum: Superliners on Surfliners

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Posted by Konstantin (Member # 18) on :

I live in Arizona, but recently returned from a trip to San Diego. I noticed two different Pacific Surfliner trains arrive in San Diego with a Superliner coach. Both of these trains were made up of California Cars being pushed southbound by an Amtrak California engine. In the middle, there was a Superliner coach. the paint scheme did not match at all.

Does anybody know why they would put Spuerliner coaches on Surfliners?

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Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale)
www.geocities.com/evrr

Posted by reggierail (Member # 26) on :

There could be many reasons. The most likely are, a special group traveling requiring extra cars & maybe no Surfliner cars were available. Holiday traffic also requires extra cars on the trains. A car could have been bad-ordered & the only replacement was a superliner
As I said there could be any of many reasons.
Yours Reggie

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Posted by Ken Ruben (Member # 656) on :

Reggie is right but here is another reason (among others):

If there is a Superliner car among California Cars on a Surfliner set, it could also be used as the Pacific Business Class car on that particular train.

I haven't ridden in a while but I have been on or seen sets of Surfliner equipment set up like that.

Posted by barrydraper (Member # 737) on :

I don't know how long ago you saw these trains. Until a few months ago Amtrak was using a couple of California car sets on the Surfliners while awaiting delivery of the Surfliner cars. Since the California cars don't have baggage compartments, a Superliner Coach/Baggage car had to be included on trains handeling checked baggage. All of the California cars have now been sent north and are being used on the San Joaquines and Capitols. Superliner coaches are still being used occasionally with the Surfliner cars to provide enough capacity to handle all the 'guests'. Ridership is growing faster than capacity is being increased. Five car Surfliner sets were susposed to be enough, but there have already been 6 Surfliner trains running nearly full.

Posted by Konstantin (Member # 18) on :

Barry

Your answer makes the most sense. The coaches were baggage coaches. I saw both of them near the very end of May

What is the difference between California Cars and Surfliner Cars? I thought that Surfliners used California Cars. I saw several Amtrak trains heading towards and away from San Diego, and except for one using older single level cars, they all had California Cars.

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Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale)
www.geocities.com/evrr

Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :

A couple of months ago I saw a California Car and a Caltrain car attached to the end of the southbound Coast Starlight as it came through Salinas. Might the California car have been intended for temporary use on the Surfliner? But the Caltrain car couldn't have been because the end doors are at different levels.

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

Posted by Greg (Member # 66) on :

I don't recall having seen a "clean" Surfliner consist since the inaugural run last June. I always see one Superliner car in the consist, usually a coach/baggage or coach for business class.

My guess is these Superliners are dedicated to the Surfliner or other California bi-level push/pull operations as I recall when the San Diegan Express was unveiled a few years ago with California Cars and a Superliner Sightseer Lounge for food service, the Superliner Lounge had to be wired for push/pull operation.

The Surfliner cars, aside from being built by a different manufacturer, have both external and internal differences from the California Cars that preceeded them. Inside, the California Cars are more like commuter coaches with the new Surfliner cars having more comforts associated with intercity coaches.

The baggage storage on the California Cars is particularly poor. The opening for the enclosed overhead baggage compartments is so small that a standard carry-on bag won't squeeze through the opening. In addition, there are no window curtains and the seats don't recline. For these reasons, I actually preferred the rougher riding Amfleet and Horizon coaches for longer trips on the San Diegan route.

The Surfliner cars correct many of the "deficiencies" of the California Cars. Overhead baggage is not enclosed, seats recline and are more comfortable than
California Car, Amfleet, or Horizon coach seats. There still are no curtains on the the standard Surfliner coaches. The Pacific Business Class coach differs from the standard coach in having curtains, greater spacing between seat rows, and seatback video monitors. All of the Surfliner coaches have more outlets for laptop computers or other electronic devices.

-Greg

Posted by barrydraper (Member # 737) on :

Greg did a good job of describing the functional differences between Surfliners and California cars, but the most obvious difference is the paint scheme: California cars have black stripes with orange and yellow highlights, while Surfliners have only blue stripes. I'm not sure how often Greg sees Surfliners, but I see quite a few pure Surfliner trains these days, about 50% of the trains. There are also low level sets still running, and some Surfliners with Superliner cars, but all California cars have been gone from Los Angeles for several months.
Regarding the sighting of a Caltrain car on the Starlight: Caltrans has a rebuilding program in progress, with the work being done in eastern Canada (if I remember correctly). Amtrak is transporting the cars to and from. You would expect the cars to go to Chicago on the California Zepher, but instaed they are routed on the Starlight to Los Angeles, then the Texas Eagle to Chicago. The reason is that Amtrak is contractually limited as to how many cars can run on each train, and The California Zepher and Southwest Chief run at their limit with mail and express, while tha Starlight and Texas Eagle have little or no express, so the Caltrain cars can be added without bumping off paying express.

Posted by Ken Ruben (Member # 656) on :

Barry, as usual, is right. He sees Amtrak trains more often than I do.

However, last night I was at LAUPT (Union Station) after our monthly meeting of Southern California Transit Advocates (http://socata.lerctr.org/) and after a group of about 10-12 of us ate at the Denny's across from the rear of the Station.

I went trackside with two of our Orange County members who were catching the 8:35 P.M. Pacific Surfliner #592 to Fullerton.

This was a "pure" Surfliner and it had the following consist: 6907-Coach-Baggage, 6408-Coach, 6307-Coach-Cafe, 6820-Business Class, and 6807-Pacific Business Class, and F59PH-453 (in that order-and all equipment matched).

Here is my question for Barry: why 2 Business Class and is there a difference between Business Class and Pacific Business Class (I recorded the info right from the listings on the letterboards of the cars before the train left and as the train left)?

Incidentally, they were having trouble with the doors and some passengers had to wait a while to get on although my friends were already on.

As an aside, while waiting for the Surfliner to leave, #4's boarding was announced and after the Surfliner left, I hung around the station to see #4 (of course, the Southwest Chief) leave at 9:12 p.m. with 12 cars including one deadhead transition sleeper at the head-end which I didn't see but was told was part of the consist along with 4 P42's by fellow railfan, Eugene Salinsky, who is at Union Station a lot more than me these days and who keeps very good track (no pun intended) of the comings and goings of Amtrak passenger trains in and out of LAUPT in-person . There were 15 more mail and express cars on the opposite track, which were going to be picked up in the usual back-in switching move but I didn't hang around for this as I had to catch my MTA Bus for my home area. Eugene had to catch a Red Line train so he left also.

The Coast Starlight (#11) was (as usual) also running late and all it said on the station arrivals board was "delayed."

I welcome any follow-up and/or comments and look forward to a reply to my question.

[This message has been edited by Ken Ruben (edited 06-10-2001).]

Posted by Greg (Member # 66) on :

I stopped by the San Diego station today (Sunday) to view the arrival of southbound 580 (5:50 PM), returning northbound as 589 (6:20 PM). It had an all-Surfliner consist.

The consist from south end to north end: 6906-Coach-Baggage, 6412-Coach, 6409-Coach, 6410-Coach, 6305-Coach-Cafe, 6802-Pacific Business Class, and F59PH-457 (Engine on the point northbound and Coach-Baggage on the point southbound).

It's now about a year into the Surfliner deliveries. Perhaps all-Surfliner consists will be more the norm and less the exception, even with an extra coach added as today.

-Greg