posted
Well, let me tell you about my trip on Amtrak.
I was in Sacramento waiting for the Coast Starlight, it was four hours late leaving LA. I had to sleep all night in the station. When it finally arrives, it is five hours late. Then, in the middle of the Cascade mountains in Oregon, a tunnel has blocked by an avalanche and we have to go back to Klamath Falls, get a bus to Eugene, OR, then get back on a train to Seattle. When the train from Eugene reaches Portland, they tell us there is a broken rail and that we have to take another bus to Seattle! By the time I got home the train was 15 hours late!
The crew was nothing but apathetic and beligerent. All their answer was to everything was "Well, it's not my job."
Before my trip I was sympathetic for Amtrak's troubles, now I'm going to write my Congressmen and tell them I don't want my tax dollars going to fund this debacle of a train if it can't do it right.
Don't get me wrong, I want passenger rail in the US, but our government can't even fund prescription drugs for seniour citizens, we're fighting a war on terrorism, and that big eared dumbbell in the White House wants to nuke half the world. The situation is such a mess I wish I had a even a half reasonable suggestion, but I don't.
Eric Member # 674
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I'm sorry you had a bad trip. Delays are always inconvenient, and when a crew doesn't offer answers to questions or sympathy to passengers, it only makes it worse. You have to remember that they are going through some rough times right now; sometimes not knowing if they'll have a job in a week. Amtrak can't be blamed for everything, either: The avalanche, broken rail, and UP's dispatching, which isn't always Amtrak friendly. Try again in a while, and hopefully the next trip will be better!
Konstantin Member # 18
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I couldn't agree with you more. Amtrak employees are the worst quality people I have ever known. The entire company is run by a bunch of worthless morons who could care less about quality. The few good employees that Amtrak has should have quit long ago and found better jobs with companies who care.
The real problem is that your story is not unique, it is the norm. I realize that those kinds of problems are going to arise on occasion, but on Amtrak they happen regularly.
I agree with you name - Disband Amtrak and get rid of those losers. Then this country might be able to start a real railroad.
------------------ Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale) www.geocities.com/evrr
cajon Member # 40
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There's nothing worse for Amtrak employees than 2/b blasted on the internet by cheap whining railfans. If you don't like it so much, ride AOE. IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT!
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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I'm not so sure killing Amtrak and starting a new national rail company is going to do much good. The only thing that changes is the company name, logo, and managers. The staff that you and I meet are the same - they just get transferred from the old company, broadly speaking.
Geoff M.
JeffDavis Member # 1312
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Konstantin said it all, for Amtrak bad service is always the norm. Get rid of them now.
------------------
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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Disbanding Amtrak will not do us a bit of good unless we have something better to replace it. Right now, there is nothing on the horizon, so be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
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Konstantin, I mean no disrespect and perhaps you can help me to understand your strong viewpoint. I understand how your negative experiences have shaped your opinion of Amtrak. I also have had some negative experiences. However, in reading your posts, I've read that you regularly ride Amtrak. Why do you ride Amtrak when you feel so strongly opposed to it's existence? Thank you.
Ira Slotkin Member # 81
posted
Well, gee gang. How about deleting the labels of "morons" and "whiny rail fans" from the posts. That's both unneccessary and counter productive. This is a forum for the exchange of ideas and experiences. When we throw in those attacks we stop being creative and this forum deteriorates in quality and value for improving rail travel. There surely are some other ways to (excuse the pun) let off some steam.
lakeshorelimited Member # 576
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Konstantin said: "I agree with you name - Disband Amtrak and get rid of those losers. Then this country might be able to start a real railroad."
I hate to break it to you, but if we Disband Amtrak now, we'll probably never have ANY long distance passenger railroads. Hate to say it, but they'll never be proifitable. So since you seem to know so much about starting a real railroad, maybe you can do it, Konstantin. I'm sorry, but your statement sounds like something that would come out of a frustrated 14 yr old's mouth.
DisbandAmtrak Member # 1429
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Something has to be done though. The problem is, if we beg the government enough to keep funding Amtrak with peanuts, then all we'll have is the staus quo. The system is deperatly sick and needs radical treatment, even if it means taking Greyhound or getting back in the air for awhile.
Not only did I pay for my ticket for that fiasco of a trip, but my tax dollars go to funding that debacle. I'm sure my fellow passengers on that trip feel the same.
Konstantin Member # 18
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To CK, Ira, and the rest:
CK, you asked a good question and I will try to answer it. I am a major railroad fan. I love travelling by train, and I have loved it for a long time (since the 1960's). I also think that quality is very important in anything, whether it be railroads or anything else. I would be glad to support a national railroad that actually offers quality service. I am not against subsidizing passenger rail, since I know that air travel and automobile travel are actually heavily subsidized. Their subsidies are just hidden better from the general public. But I do not see why we should support Amtrak who refuses to provide quality service. I have had personal experiences with several Amtrak employees who would not have lasted a day at any reputable company. Why can't Amtrak fire these people? Several times I have heard Amtrak employees yelling foul languange in front of the customers. This would not be tolerated in any reputable company. Why does Amtrak tolerate it?
I ride Amtrak because I love trains, so I tolerate the poor quality service. For anybody who is not a true railfan, I would never recommend for them to ride long-distance on Amtrak.
To answer another point raised, as long as this country has any form of a poor passenger railroad, I think it will be difficult to get the support to transform it into a good railroad. I think if Amtrak were destroyed, this country could start from scratch and run a good railroad. I do realize that it will probably take ten or more years for this to happen.
Ira, you are correct. I apologize for my use of words above, but I do not apologize in the least for the meaning of my message above. You read above my opinions about quality. Quality also applies to this forum. It has been a good quality forum, and I will try to keep it that way. Sometimes I do have to let off steam about Amtrak, since it makes me so angry to see their employees destroying it, but I should do it in a good quality way, not by lowering myself to Amtrak's extremely low standards. Thank you for straightening me out.
In the end, my wishes are probably the same as everybody else here: I would like to see long-distance passenger service (either Amtrak or others) that usually provides quality service, on-time trains, and polite employees. As of now, Amtrak can do none of these.
[This message has been edited by Konstantin (edited 03-18-2002).]
MPALMER Member # 125
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Konstantin, I agree with most of your last post. I ride trains as often as I can. I do periodically suggest Amtrak as a travel option to people, but ALWAYS with the comment that one should be prepared for a train running hours late. I don't know if the delays are always the fault of the freight railroads, however. As for poor employees, some of them might be on the payroll due to union seniority rules and such. Unions in all industries are adept at keeping the 'difficult people' employed... As for replacing Amtrak, I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe the airlines could set up rail routes (do I hear shouts of "No!!!" out there) or Greyhound could get in to the act, but do you really think that will happen? Maybe the National Park Service or some other government org could run it. The key is having folks qualified and able to run a rail system, with an available source of reliable funds. Like everything else I am sure it is more complicated "behind the scenes" MP
CarterB Member # 1439
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Konstantin: [B]To CK, Ira, and the rest:
"I ride Amtrak because I love trains, so I tolerate the poor quality service. For anybody who is not a true railfan, I would never recommend for them to ride long-distance on Amtrak......"
I totally agree and also predict that Amtrak long distance trains will fall by the wayside after Oct 2002, with the possible exception of the Capitol Ltd., and one of the "Silvers" or Auto Train to Florida. Other routes West may be supplanted by private operations such as the AOE, or Arcadian, Rocky Mtn Railtours type operations for the "WOOF"s.
NEC operations, and the other 'corridors' may well be what else is left.
On the brighter side, if and I say IF, regional high speed initiatives take hold, it would give a "new" Amtrak the opportunity to connect them with interegional trains with speedier and more comfortable, profitable and competive services. If you look at how well the European passenger rail works, it is because of extensive hub and spoke operations that are relatively seamless to the traveler and speedy.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
posted
Konstantin, If you feel as strongly as you do about replacing Amtrak, perhaps you should throw your support behind the ARC plan to franchise the trains to private operators. The plan calls for competitive bidding (with the one requiring the least subsidy to get the contract), and minimum service standards, which, if not met, could result in the loss of the contract to another operator. I believe this idea was made part of the ARC plan to address the very things you complain about.
For the record, though, in my experience the vast majority of Amtrak employees, at least out west, are exceptionally friendly. Most (though not all) of the travelogues I read report the same.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
posted
Konstantin, thank you for your reply. I understand your position. I agree with Mr. Toy that most Amtrak employees out west are friendly and helpful. I also understand why Amtrak employees may have negative opinions towards passengers. At times, I've seen passengers who are unreasonable in their requests, or worst yet, in their demands, and passengers who fail to compensate (tip properly) the hard working employees in the dining, sleeping, coach, & lounge cars. All to often I've seen passengers leave a $1.00 tip, or no tip at all, for dinner in the diner. Passengers seem to forget, when they board the train, the concept of a 10, 15 or 20% tip. My experience has been that if you treat the employees with proper respect the vast majority will respond with the professional service that we all desire. In the cases that some employees "should be fired" you maybe correct. However, I have spent my career working in civil service and dealing with strong unions, where you are rewarded for seniority & not productivity. The reality is it is almost impossible to "get someone fired". To get a bad employee reassigned is viewed as a major victory. Amtrak is a reflection of that system. One final thought, a bad employee can often allow us to pass judgement on an entire group. I know that I would not want to be judged by the actions of another. Next month, my wife & I will be taking the CZ to Chicago, the EB to Seattle, & the CS back home. I'll be sure to post our experience.
Konstantin Member # 18
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Mr Toy: I do not know much about the ARC plan you suggested, but from the little I know, it seems like it is the kind of thing that I would support. I tend to favor privately run businesses and competition, rather than a lot of government involvement. From what I have seen, Amtrak employees on the western trains are better than the employees on the eastern trains. I have known several very good employees, but also several bad ones. I do agree with you that there are still some left who are excellent.
DisbandAmtrak: I hope you don't mind, but seems that we have drifted away from your original post. Your post did start a long discussion going.
[This message has been edited by Konstantin (edited 03-19-2002).]
irish1 Member # 222
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amtrak does have some very ornery employees and sometimes i wonder why they chose to work serving the public. but they also have many more that seem to love their job and are very courteous and helpful. i used to be a bartender and all it would take is 1 idiot out of 100 to ruin your day. you always remember the bad guy and forget about the 99 nice people.
DisbandAmtrak Member # 1429
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Konstantin, No I don't mind, we need to talk about these issues, the future of rail in this country is in serious peril.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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I need to follow up on my last comment. I recently learned that the freight railroads want nothing to do with a hodge-podge of inexperienced franchisees operating on their tracks. So the ARC franchising plan may be DOA. (Makes you wonder why the ARC didn't consult with the freight railroads before finalizing their plan!)
So as an alternative perhaps Amtrak could franchise the on-board services, with specific service standards, while Amtrak retains responsibility for train operations.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
posted
I don’t think you should smash you car because is won’t start. I think you should fix it. I don’t think the ARC wants to “reform” Amtrak. They want to smash it. I think some of them are in someone’s pocket, who wants Amtrak off their tracks, so they make more money, hauling more freight. If they win, it’s gone forever. The three main problems with Amtrak are accountability, accountability, and accountability. Yes Virginia you can fire union employees. But first you have to want to. Wanting to comes from accountability. If they aren’t doing their job, you aren’t doing your job. You get fired. Next you have to know how. Most managers don’t. But that is who usually tries to do it. You need special hatchet men, like lawyers, and or exunion people, someone who won’t screw it up, which usually is the case. Then you need to know who to fire. All you need to do is look. One of my dad’s first jobs with Amtrak was riding the train, watching employees. If you know your being watched, that your being held accountable, and that the guy they send after you wont miss, most of us will tighten up. And the rest will just disappear. The sad fact is that it is not the unions that are the problem. The managers are worse than the workers. It goes all the way up to the top. It’s those three little things that are missing. But the question nobody asks is why. And where is the real top. Is the president the top? No. Is the board of directors the top? Your getting warmer, but no. The people we elect are the top. They pick the board. They don’t care about accountability. All they care about is votes. Let’s take them out of the picture. Make Amtrak a federal agency. Let’s pay the heads of Amtrak based on performance, like a real business. That will give it accountability. And then give it the money it needs, like every other form of transportation. But this is just my opinion, based one twenty years working in this circus.
P.S. Vote locomotive guy for president N.R.P.C. I’ll go through the top of this company with a double bladed ax. That’s where most of the fat really is.
royaltrain Member # 622
posted
Mr. Toy has made a good point about franchising out on-board services. There is certainly precedent for this on pre-amtrak railways. Most sleeping and parlour car services in the U.S. were run by the Pullman Company. I think it is generally conceded that Pullman employees provided some of the finest service anywhere. As well, Santa Fe contracted out its dining car services on most (or perhaps all) of its trains to Fred Harvey--again a deluxe service rarely found on today's trains. I think the British example should certainly be avoided. Having multiple train operating companies in the U.S would be a disaster. I know the privatize everything advocates will never admit to this, but many state-run railway companies operate excellent first class services. France, Germany and Japan certainly come to mind. In fact I believe on German railways (and perhaps others)some franchising already exists respecting dining car services. Certainly an idea worth considering for Amtrak.
NorTex Member # 1460
posted
From my experience, it isn't that Amtrak service is bad, but it is very inconsistent. I've had trips in which the trains were on time (well close) and Amtrak people treated me like a king. I've had others as bad as what you described. I can handle being late better than attitude problems from employees. But I can understand how NO job security doesn't help the attitude.
"Don't get me wrong, I want passenger rail in the US, but our government can't even fund prescription drugs for seniour citizens, we're fighting a war on terrorism, and that big eared dumbbell in the White House wants to nuke half the world. The situation is such a mess I wish I had a even a half reasonable suggestion, but I don't."
President Bush 1) is less responsible for this Amtrak mess than any other pres. for the last 30 years. 2) He doesn't want to "nuke half the world". 3) is not nearly as dumb as the news media would like you to believe. Give the guy a chance!! Write him a letter and express your view on the subject, and Oh yeah, write all your congress persons too.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
posted
quote:Originally posted by locomotiveguy: I don’t think the ARC wants to “reform” Amtrak. They want to smash it. I think some of them are in someone’s pocket, who wants Amtrak off their tracks, so they make more money, hauling more freight.
I have watched a some of the ARC meetings on C-SPAN, and I have read many of their reports, and I have yet to see any evidence to support that view. Only Wendell Cox fits that description, and few, if any of his proposals were adopted by the ARC. Quite the contrary, all of the other members have made it very clear they want a bigger system, not a smaller one.
True, some of the ARC's ideas are klinkers, but they also have a number of valid ideas that are at least worth considering. The ARC also has some legitimite criticisms of Amtrak management which Amtrak ignores at its own peril.
As for the rest of your post, locomotiveguy, you are right-on. ------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
[This message has been edited by Mr. Toy (edited 03-21-2002).]
TBlack Member # 181
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr. Toy: So as an alternative perhaps Amtrak could franchise the on-board services, with specific service standards, while Amtrak retains responsibility for train operations.
An interesting point. The new candidate for president of AMTRAK, Andrew Selden, is a lawyer specializing in franchise law.
disgusted Member # 1373
posted
Typical railbuff hogwash. As long as you all are able to keep watching trains, who cares what happens to the personnel. You care more about metal then humans.
MPALMER Member # 125
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Disgusted, Some of us do care what happens to the personnel. Good people really do make a difference. Amtrak is going through the same cutbacks that retail stores have already done, where the floor staff (folks who work with the public) are cut back to such an extent that 'customer service' has become a rare thing... MP
lakeshorelimited Member # 576
posted
disgusted- I wrote extensively about the issues regarding the Amtrak employees and passengers in my letters to congress. Don't be so quick to stereotype all people who enjoy riding trains. We're not all trackside foamers.
MPalmer- You're right about the service at retail stores. Try Nordstrom!
disgusted Member # 1373
posted
A new round of personnel cuts are on the way. This time it's the extra board employees. Extra you say? Don't need them anyway. What are they used for? They cover vacations, personal days, sick days. As many will say, were not entitled to those, but we do have them. So, let's say I call in sick today, what will happen is either the dayshift person will have to work 19 hours today, get 5 hours sleep, then work another 8 hours, or they close the station. Now what's going to happen when someone is on vacation, is Amtrak going to expect someone to work 19 hours for 5 days straight? One day maybe, 5 days never. Yet, let's work safe, be polite, make excuses for our sorry service, and smile, when you can't keep your eyes open. Oh yeah, when someone isn't happy with your service because you can't keep your eyes open and gets a service voucher, you have to answer for it. This is going to be a very interesting summer.
I'll apoligize to some of the railfans for making my previous comment, but for a lot of you, employees are just in the way.
posted