I've often wondered why Amtrak abandoned their original logo. To me this has always symbolized the National Passenger Railway Corporation and still does so today. I find the image very striking and symbolic.
It is much more appropriate than this
Posted by Mart (Member # 1615) on :
I don't know why either. I guess that the old logo got too old and they wanted to try something(things are always changing).I agree that the old logo is much better. Kinda dissapointed in phase V , but that's another story.
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Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
Since I have an old flyer (pre "Acela" name) featuring the "up-to-150-mph" trains that now ply the Northeast Corridor at mundane speeds, it had the old "pointless arrow" logo computer-drawn onto the power car's flanks. Frankly, it looked nicer than what's on there now. Heck, even Faze IV would look better on those Asmella Express trainsets...(In retrospect, the "concept" logo on the HST looked like Faze II "bloody nose" era without the blood, actually)...
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
it is an American corporate tradition to change a logo, rather than their corporate structure, when a company is failing. This is to show the world that they are new and improved, even if nothing is new or improved. I've seen it happen before, and they often change their name, too. ValueJet did it after their crash in Florida. Sambo's restaurants did it a year or so before going under. Enron is about to do it.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
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Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
it is an American corporate tradition to change a logo, rather than their corporate structure, when a company is failing
Please pardon my sarcasm, but if there ever was a time when Amtrak was deemed a success, I'd like that pointed out to me...
Posted by atsf3751 (Member # 1538) on :
They should take a lesson from the Rock Island, who changed their logo (and paint scheme) and became just "The Rock," and died shortly thereafter.
Posted by vthokie (Member # 1456) on :
For what it's worth, I like the new logo, and the new paint scheme as well. (I've even grown to like it on the Genesis diesels!)
But yeah, what's really important is getting needed funding and using it effectively to run a top quality passenger railroad!
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Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
It's not just an American tradition for a failing company to rebrand itself. It's happened countless times over here in the UK. Consignia, formerly known as the Post Office, are the latest big culprits. Oh, and now our "government" has put Railtrack into administration (ie allegedly bankrupt), that'll change name too - Network Rail is one possibility. The managers might change, but at the end of the day it's still good ol' Bob and Fred jus' doin' there job at the workface.
Oh, and some of our liveries since privatisation are a terrible sight to behold. The Amtrak current one is positively a masterpiece compared to some!
Geoff M.
Posted by Konstantin (Member # 18) on :
I also liked the pointless arrow. I think Amtrak should keep the same logo and paint scheme.
Every time a railroad changes a paint scheme, it makes their trains look worse. That is because they never change all of the locomotives and cars, and therefore the trains become a mix of styles. Amtrak is the same way. Most of the trains I see are now a mixture of paint schemes, and they look rather stupid. If they always kept the same paint scheme, then they would not have these problems and people would always identify with it.
------------------ Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale) www.geocities.com/evrr
Posted by Eric (Member # 674) on :
vthokie wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For what it's worth, I like the new logo, and the new paint scheme as well. (I've even grown to like it on the Genesis diesels!)
I agree!
I haven't seen a "mixed" paint scheme train for quite awhile. Every train has all Ph. V Genesis units on the point, all Ph. IV Superliners, and mostly Ph. IV RoadRailers and MHCs. The ExpressTrak reefers are in V, too. I like it.
Posted by vthokie (Member # 1456) on :
Now, the question is, are they going to keep the Phase IV stripes on the Superliners, and other coaches outside of the Northeast Corridor? I think they might as well - no point in changing that (especially on the Superliners, where the thin Phase IV stripe looks good and it would take a while to update the whole fleet with something else).
Posted by Mart (Member # 1615) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Konstantin: I also liked the pointless arrow. I think Amtrak should keep the same logo and paint scheme.
Every time a railroad changes a paint scheme, it makes their trains look worse. That is because they never change all of the locomotives and cars, and therefore the trains become a mix of styles. Amtrak is the same way. Most of the trains I see are now a mixture of paint schemes, and they look rather stupid. If they always kept the same paint scheme, then they would not have these problems and people would always identify with it.
[/QUOTE To stay on subject I say the old logo is much better.
I agree somewhat , but every paint scheme don't suit a certain type of locomotive or car(just because it looks good on this , dosen't mean it's gonna look good on that).
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Posted by Eric (Member # 674) on :
vthokie wrote: --------------------------------------------- Now, the question is, are they going to keep the Phase IV stripes on the Superliners, and other coaches outside of the Northeast Corridor? I think they might as well - no point in changing that (especially on the Superliners, where the thin Phase IV stripe looks good and it would take a while to update the whole fleet with something else). --------------------------------------------- I think I remember reading somewhere that Amtrak has a large supply of Ph. IV stripe "decals" left over. Amtrak said that they'll use those before they order more, but I don't know if any new orders will be in Ph. IV. Anyone else read this somewhere?
Posted by Mart (Member # 1615) on :
Well , since there now painting the Genesis locomotives in phase V. Why won't they paint other equipment into this phase. Hope we won't be seeing phase V superliners and others for a long time. I think phase IV looks good on superliners , but phase III is better for amfleet cars. I know the majority of them might be in phase IV , but I don't think the ones remaining in phase III don't need to be painted into phase IV( it be sad if we loose what is left of phse III).
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Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
"Phases on stun..."
Well...as for the Amfleet I cars on the NEC, it seems to me that they have a few different distinct patterns of Faze Five, depending on coach, first-class or bar car...all of which seem to be fading rapidly due to using cheap paint that isn't very light-resistant. I have yet to see any Amfleet IIs, Horizons, or Viewliners bearing Faze Number Five. (The so-called Faze Five Toaster Version doesn't measure up to that on the HHP-8 or other locos. At this rate, I'm half-expecting to see E-60s wearing Faze Five sometime in the future...)
Incidentally...what's that Surfliner/Cascade Talgo paint scheme called, Phase 5½? It looks nothing like the Shamu/Acela version of Phase 5.
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Posted by Eric (Member # 674) on :
"Incidentally...what's that Surfliner/Cascade Talgo paint scheme called, Phase 5½? It looks nothing like the Shamu/Acela version of Phase 5."
I think the Surfliner/Cascade paint schemes came out before the Genesis (Acela) Ph. V. The Ph. V on Genesis 169-207 can be called Ph. Vb (or V 1/2, I guess). Maybe Amtrak West has a title for the paint job, and I think the Cascades have always had the same paint scheme- except for a few special trains once in a while. So maybe that could be Cascade I. (???!)
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Posted by Ken V (Member # 1466) on :
When I first posted this I was wondering how long it would take for it to (expectedly) gravitate into a discussion on paint schemes. To my surprise, many more posts than anticipated have addressed the original question. Please carry on with the current discussions - this too is very worthwhile.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Carrying on....
I saw nothing wrong with the pointless arrow, though it was very "seventies." The new logo is nice, too, but not worth the price of redesign.
*I agree that Phase IV is best for Superliners, as it evokes memories of the streamliner days. Plus the lettering style is similar to the Surfliners, giving a sense of continuity between services.
I am not a big fan of the phase V locomotive scheme. It looks like somebody spilled blue paint on the roof and it ran down the front.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
Chalk up one more fan of the "pointless arrow" At least it was distinctive from a distance. The new logo with its pastel colors looks/looked 'faded' right from the beginning, giving the cars painted with it an 'old' look. You'da thot Amtrak would have considered how it looks from a distance.
Posted by CK (Member # 589) on :
Does anyone know if the 3 lines under Amtrak on the new logo represent anything or is it simply meant as a design?
Posted by gct29 (Member # 1551) on :
quote:Originally posted by CK: Does anyone know if the 3 lines under Amtrak on the new logo represent anything or is it simply meant as a design?
This is where it really gets funny. The design is supposed to represent rails traversing a landscape, wherein the white lines are the rails, and the blue lines, the landscape.
But it looks more like solid dividing lines on a highway, doesn't it? And if the white lines are to be interpreted as rails, why do they enter the scene at a 40% grade? Shouldn't there at least be a cog rail?
Seems they've replaced the pointless arrow with a useless track.
A question to anyone who wishes to answer: if you ran across this logo in a Rorschach test, how would you interpret it?
Posted by CarterB (Member # 1439) on :
Looks to me sorta like the flag of Botswana laid on its side. ...........or maybe.......a three lane highway to nowhere?
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by gct29: The design is supposed to represent rails traversing a landscape, wherein the white lines are the rails, and the blue lines, the landscape.
I wouldn't have seen that if you hadn't explained it. I just thought it was three blue whisps that disappear into the background. The grade deosm't worry me much, since it is not a literal track on a literal landscape.
I kinda like it, but the money could have been spent better elsewhere. A company should only change its logo if it has the money to change everything, signs, letterhead, business cards, name badges, etc. How many Amtrak station signs have the new logo? Salinas and the Monterey Peninsula throughway bus stops still have the old logo. How many name badges have been changed? Very few, I think. So why did they bother with a new logo in advertisements when it has no connection with the logo at the stations???
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
I, too didnt understand the new logo at first until I looked at it carefully. I thought those were tracks, but it's nice to hear someone confirm it for me. Before I knew what it was, I thought it was a rip-off of the adidas logo, only upside down.
Sorry pointless arrow fans, I like the new one better. The new tickets with the new logo look much better than the old stale tickets with the arrow. Last summer, there were still plenty of older pointless arrow tickets in a quiktrak machine in Hartford, but I think they've used them all up at this point.
Posted by Ken V (Member # 1466) on :
Last Friday's Washington Post included an article on Amtrak which included:
quote:Gunn has other symbols he doesn't like. He insisted on having his official portrait made with a lapel pin of the old Amtrak logo, commonly called the "pointless arrow." The new logo is hard to describe. It looks like a series of wavy lines or maybe a seashell run over by a train. Some Amtrak old-timers have taken to calling it "the flying breast implant."
I wonder sense he likes the old logo better, what he thinks of the phases? That part about the new logo is hilarious.
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Posted by windowseatplease (Member # 3413) on :
If it wasn't for the pointless arrow I wouldn't have a passion for trains any other way- A simple symbol that fascinates me for life. But I think thats what they tried to do for the Acela symbol, keep it simple but affectionate, and it never met that mark. Why? In my opinion the right color adds to poetry, just like a cherry is red, lime is green, and Dell computers are black. But no one sees the poetic symbol or color of Acela. When I came home from a tour in Europe for two years straight and saw the Amtak Phase V, dahuuuh? So I tried to figure it out. After staring at it for a little bit, I think the smybol is three tracks going off to the distance. The wavyness symbolizes flexibility, anyplace, high or low. The color is a neutral color, no ones favorite color(obviously) because anyone is welcome to take the train(if you can afford it). Also, its the trains' force protection color, times have changed. But I still think the AEM7's should have a large Acela Amtrak symbol with gold trim labeled 'Acel Regional' on the sides. Would you like butter and jelly with that?
Posted by Capltd29 (Member # 3292) on :
I personally like the new logo, I think it looks more futuristic, which is good because I think that to a lot of people that are un educated about trains, think of passenger trains as being a primitive moe of transportation, so Amtrak needs to try and look as best as it can. Also, the Pointless arrow was a heck of a lot easier to draw than the new one.
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Personally, I agree that the new logo looks more 'futuristic', but I still like the 'pointless arrow' more, since I grew up with it. If Amtrak really wanted to spice up their livery they could keep the new logo in the northeast corridor trains, and re-apply the former on all of the national trains. I think that they should also, over a period of time, paint the superliners, and perhaps half of the single level cars in the old livery. (I really miss the old superliner colors, the new arn't as "flashy"). This way, we railfans could at least have a little variety instead of the same colors over, and over , and over.
Posted by espeefoamer (Member # 2815) on :
I,too,preferred the Pointless Arrow scheme. The current logo looks like a fan .I like the phase IV scheme on the superliners.I don't like the new thin line version because they have removed the names from the sleeping cars .
------------------ Trust Jesus,Ride Amtrak.
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Posted by JONATHON (Member # 2899) on :
The "old Logo" was more patreodic, and is a better Logo for Amtrak, but it looks like Amtrak just thought theyed need a new one
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
Posted by Jim (Member # 65) on :
This is a fun topic!
"Pointless Arrow" all the way!
On a side note, I understand that Mr. Gunn saw the change as a waste of money. (The change occurred under the previous CEO.)
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
There was a quote from the last Disney, was that Roy, Jr. when Eisner squeezed him out amidst talk about improving the "branding" of the Disney products. I copied it, but can not now find it, but part of it went something like this,
Branding is what you do to cattle. In business it is what you emphasize when you do not know what else to do.
Posted by LateShoreLimited (Member # 2025) on :
George Warrington thought the best thing to do was spend lots of money on a new logo and company colors and tell everyone that the slide to zero subsidy was realistic. Amazing that another railroad actually hired him.
Posted by boyishcolt (Member # 3001) on :
what does "patredic" mean??
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Try "patriotic"
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Branding is what you do to cattle. In business it is what you emphasize when you do not know what else to do.
It seems odd to dig up this two year old topic, but I had a good laugh at this. In my experience it is what failing businesses do to make them look like a different business, without actually changing the way they do business. In the end they are only fooling themselves.
And RE: Jonathon's spelling. He has a clever way of manipulating phonetics. Gotta love it.
Posted by morseman (Member # 3416) on :
Add a Canadian who frequently travels on Amtrak to the list of those who prefers the pointless arrow..............PROGRESS if a cannibal is taught to use a knife and fork would this be called progress.
Posted by Robert L (Member # 3144) on :
WOW! I must be going through a "Phase" and I can't keep up. Does anyone have a link to a site to show all (or most) of the Phase variations in Amtrak paints, I am sooooo confused, I, II, III, IV, or V times. I have seen several variations but don't know one Phase from the other, when all of the experts on this post are talking. Great stuff from everyone, keep it up.
Posted by morseman (Member # 3416) on :
I've just figured out what the three lines represent on the new logo........Lionel train tracks.
Posted by CHATTER (Member # 1185) on :
The new logo has two tracks, not three. The two light lines are the tracks; the three dark lines represent the ground beneath it. Took me a while to learn this.
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Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Chatter is technically correct, but I like the Lionel quip just the same.
Posted by TheBriz09 (Member # 3166) on :
quote:Originally posted by Robert L: I have seen several variations but don't know one Phase from the other, when all of the experts on this post are talking.
The blue line is Amtrak going along smoothly, then getting stopped by the UP freight train(the red arrow), as the red arrow ruins a nice on time performance by the Sunset Limited(Blue Line,into the split at the end)
To me this has always symbolized the National Passenger Railway Corporation and still does so today. I find the image very striking and symbolic.
.I like the phase IV scheme on the superliners.I don't like the new thin line version because they have removed the names from the sleeping cars 
.