Of course it is pricey; roundly $300 per night, in season; but there is quite a waiting list on most routes.

In short, no one "must" ride an overnight Amtrak train; the only reason you are on the train is for discressionary travel. Accordingly, in the absence of some macochistic phobia, you want enjoyment, not an endurance contest.

I see people of all ages traveling overnight in coach, One should not expect to get a lot of sleep, but it gets easier the more you do it. Frankly, I didn't sleep much better in the sleeper I had a couple weeks ago. (That was more to do with my constant curiosity to look out the window than any discomfort).

That said, I would not attempt multiple nights in coach. Its not THAT comfortable.

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

I do not like to travel in a sleeper. It is like being stuck in your own little jail cell. I like to be out in the open and have a real adventure. Sleepers are more comfortable, and I must admit, I do not sleep well while travelling in coach. But a train ride is not the time to sleep much. A train ride is a time to have fun.

Even if the cost was the same, I would still prefer coach to sleeper.

I m traveling on several routes. I would love to have a sleeper my entire journey but the cost is prohibitive. The Coast Starlight had the best price. I m taking the SW Chief and Lake Shore Limited from LA to NY, a three day trip. If I bought a sleeper it would have set me back almost 600! I know meals are included, but I just can't justify that price. At the other extreme ls year I had a sleeper from Chicago to Palm Springs on the Texas Eagle,another three night trip that cost $166. Earlier this year I bought a sleeper on the Cardinal for $92. If there is space once you are on the train the cost is considerably cheaper.

I love train travel and I can't wait to board my first train on my trip in a couple of weeks. I m 53 and I can sleep fairly easily in coach. Of course I get tired,but my whole vacation is train travel and layovers at hotels walking distance from the station, so I really don t mind that continuous tired feeling.

On my first overnight train trip I travelled coach (I couldn't afford anything else) and didn't get to sleep until almost 6:00 a.m. only to be awakened an hour later with the station stop announcement. I spent the rest of that day in a zombie-like state.

Talk about being trapped......LOL!

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Originally posted by Konstantin:
I may be considered "over the hill" by many college students, but I still like coach better than a sleeper.

I do not like to travel in a sleeper. It is like being stuck in your own little jail cell. I like to be out in the open and have a real adventure. Sleepers are more comfortable, and I must admit, I do not sleep well while travelling in coach. But a train ride is not the time to sleep much. A train ride is a time to have fun.

Even if the cost was the same, I would still prefer coach to sleeper.

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For those who have hard time functioning unless they get 8 or even 9 hours of solid shuteye, a night sitting up on a train can be slow torture. You can spend the entire next day feeling as if you have a massive case of jet lag -- and you haven't been anywhere near an airport.

I suspect that people who normally squeak by on 5 hours or less a night (or who suffer from insomnia) have an easier time overnighting in coach. They probably never wake up feeling truly rested, even at home. So a less-than-serene night in an Amfleet or Superliner seat probably wouldn't seem much worse.

The problem is, most passengers have no choice. They can't afford a sleeper. But I'm always amazed to read trip reports posted by people who travel clear around the country for several weeks, entirely in coach. They must have a spine of solid steel.

I sincerely believe that once away from the railfan community, there really is negligible demand for any kind of economy sleeper product. Even if there were, it would simply be a recipie to dilute revenue yield.

However, even before the railroads reequipped after WWII, they know that was little demand for Open section sleepers or any kind of shared accomodation arragements. The CB&Q, MILW, and the UP all ordered 14 Section lightweight sleepers; all were withdrawn with the CB&Q's and the UP's being converted to coaches. The MILW cars, marketed as Touralux, were designed for economy service and I guess some amenities, such as carpeting, were deleted.

Amtrak has clearly made the decision not to offer any economy sleeper arrangements, choosing instead to, "discount" the product during periods of less demand. They have further not considered any kind of shared accomodations arrangements and even the few cars that joined the Amtrak fleet with open sections (CB&Q 6-4-6), the sections were not offered for sale.

I have one simple "wishful thinking moment" vis-a-vis the current "standard bedroom" (read enclosed section), the Roomette of the Pullman/Early Amtrak era, and the open section (American, National, and Valley series of the later Pullman era):

The berths in the current enclosed sections are (1) too narrow, (2) too dark during daylight, (3) have far thinner matress systems, and (4) lack even the 1/2 sq ft berth windows of the cars run 2 generations earlier!!

John
who may be 46 but remembers loving an upper berth with its windows as a 10 year old on the Union Pacific!

... and who wonders where the heck William Kratville or Arthur Dubin were when Amtrak decided to design Superliner sleepers???

As a comparison, I recently took a train from Barcelona to Paris. That had three levels of service - shared compartments for four, private compartments for two (similar to Amtrak Deluxe bedrooms but without a shower or toilet, but with washbasin), and the luxury apartments on wheels (with shower, and a lot better than Amtrak deluxe). The entire train was packed and it was midweek.

In Britain the sleepers are twin berths (2nd class) or single berths (1st class). Unless you pay a supplement, the 2nd berth will be occupied by AN Other.

Suffice to say, a "confirmed" Wagon-Lit Single Bedroom simply "wasn't".

I think the biggest issue that would confront Amtrak is revenue dilution if such an accomodation was offered. If a Viewliner were to be configured as a 10 Couchette BR car, there would then be 40 bunks available. Since Amtrak has in mind to get $600 per night for a room (that is roundly what a Deluxe costs per night), this means that in order to equalize the revenue yield of a Viewliner configured 10Dlx, that Couchette bunk would have to be priced at $150 per night.

Any of our "econosnooze" devotees (particularly those whom have traveled couchette overseas)out there willing to fork out that kind of loot for a couchette bunk?.

Frankly I don't like riding coach....Whether its an overnight train or an international plane flight or even (horrors!) a bus.

Personally I think the open section concept would work...

Your opinions?

Regards,

A Viewliner, if so configured, could have 14 Sections, or 28 berths. 8 modules would be needed for washrooms.

Anybody feel like paying $240 for a lower or $190 for an Upper, as that is how they need be priced in order to yield the $6000 nightly revenue. The "spread" between the lower and upper was the traditional 80% of the lower used by the Pullman Company.

Stick with the "sure bet"; The WOOFS are happy to pay $600 per night for a Deluxe.

Graynt, I remember some advice handed out in Mr. Emeka's book, since he is an Amtrak sleeping car attendant- If you are going on an incredibly long journey on a limited budget, schedule a sleeper every other night or so.
Irishchieftain: "the sleeper providing better means for this than a coach seat"
I've heard there is a definite 79 mile per hour club. I'm not a member yet. 'nuff said, this is a family forum, right?
General summary and advice: You should be able to adequately sleep in coach if you can sleep in an upright position, such as in a car. I'm assuming you wanted to take a train to avoid falling asleep behind the wheel, so you'll be safer this way. Bring your own pillow and blanket! The mini-pillow handed out by coach attendants is a bit small for me for sleeping. As a substitute, you may wish to purchase the official Amtrak Souvenir Blanket from the lounge car at $7.50, but the way things have been lately, do not count on them being in stock.
If you can't deal with other people or just want to be able to take a shower, take a sleeper. Remember your dining car meals are complimentary with a sleeper.
If you are like I am, and you cannot sleep sitting up, plan on not getting any sleep the first night on the train, then doing okay from then on forward.
The Usual Disclaimer: I have only taken one trip on a train that involved more than one overnight, and that was when I was twelve. Blah blah blah, fine print, don't read this because it will discredit most of what I've been saying, I have never in my life ridden in or booked a sleeping car so who am I to point out the differences, more fine print, save Amtrak by calling the frelling White House, and so on.

[This message has been edited by Surfer (edited 10-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Surfer (edited 10-31-2002).]

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Originally posted by Surfer:
Hmmm. I see. Well I'm not what I would call "well off" by any means. I'm also under 35 :-), and I travel exclusively in Sleepers on overnight trips (I'm doing it again in just three weeks). Long Distance overnight in Coach is TORTURE...personally, I can't do it (Did it *once* yeeeeeaaars ago and vowed NEVER to do it again). I LOVE travelling in sleepers. The Standard Bedrooms (what I like to refer to as "compartments") are nice and cozy and the Viewliner Sleepers are the best, better than Superliner Sleepers. Why do I like the Viewliner Sleepers better? Well, the upper berth has windows, I like the in-room sink and toilet (before I ever rode in a Viewliner I was skeptical of the in room toilet, but really it's not a problem AT ALL and VERY convenient. So is the sink). I like the in-room multi channel video entertainment. Hmmmm, I just love overnight sleeper travel. It's' so relaxing, fun and comfortable for me.

[This message has been edited by Surfer (edited 10-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Surfer (edited 10-31-2002).]

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