Comments, anyone?
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---The Amtrak Mole
---All your PCs are belong to trash
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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy
This minor embarassement over the Acela Express is just a blip. The NEC is simply too essential to the transportation network in the Washington-New York area to suffer much from it.
The real threat to Amtrak is the often talked about cutting of the long-distance trains. The darker days had been (and will be) when these trains were made less than daily or discontinued entirely.
Amtrak will survive this latest setback, however, survival is not enough. The national system desparately needs proper investment. This means the funds to increase frequencies, properly maintain equipment, and improve infrastructure. Although we can only look to the taxpayers to get this started, I firmly believe a better rail system will attract more paying customers.
This will be unpopular but I also think that "First Class" travellers should pay the full cost of their trip. Generally, those travelling in coach are the ones who really need affordable train service.
Ken V, I agree with you about your "unpopular" statement on first class.
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Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale)
www.geocities.com/evrr
The real threat to Amtrak is the often talked about cutting of the long-distance trains. The darker days had been (and will be) when these trains were made less than daily or discontinued entirely.
Amtrak will survive this latest setback, however, survival is not enough. The national system desparately needs proper investment. This means the funds to increase frequencies, properly maintain equipment, and improve infrastructure. Although we can only look to the taxpayers to get this started, I firmly believe a better rail system will attract more paying customers.
I concur with your assessment, Ken. Well said. I don't even think of this Acela issue as an embarassment. Nor do i think of the country's struggles to maintain a system a "perils of Pauline" ... circumstance. That points to some evil villan (sp?) and a helpless, innocent Miss. I think there is broadbased complicity and broadbased denial involved in our system (macro and micro) failure. In this Acela case a problem was discovered and rather than a cover up - ala Firestone, Enron, Watergate, or... or ... or ... - the equipment is pulled and repaired ASAP.
More disturbing (vs embarassment) is the nation's unwillingness to ensure adequately funded, reasonably priced, safe, fast, widely available, reliable national rail passenger services of all classes.
Pardon me, but what are you talking about???
My last several trips have been aboard either the CZ or the Grand Canyon. My son and I have been First Class on all those trips, and in all save one segment, we've been in a deluxe bedroom.
As I recall, I am paying on the order of $400 a night for a 42 sq ft compartment and 3 meals a day for us. That amount is over and above the rail transportation cost.
Trust me ... at 400 a night I can get some pretty splendiferous fixed site hotel service.
Now, what studies have you seen recently that show the actual cost of First Class service on the line haul runs to be above what I'm paying for it???
Show me the paper (or the electrons).
John
quote:
Originally posted by Ken V:
---big snip---
This will be unpopular but I also think that "First Class" travellers should pay the full cost of their trip. Generally, those travelling in coach are the ones who really need affordable train service.
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The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations
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Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale)
www.geocities.com/evrr
quote:
Originally posted by PullmanCo:
Ken,Pardon me, but what are you talking about???
My last several trips have been aboard either the CZ or the Grand Canyon. My son and I have been First Class on all those trips, and in all save one segment, we've been in a deluxe bedroom.
As I recall, I am paying on the order of $400 a night for a 42 sq ft compartment and 3 meals a day for us. That amount is over and above the rail transportation cost.
Trust me ... at 400 a night I can get some pretty splendiferous fixed site hotel service.
Now, what studies have you seen recently that show the actual cost of First Class service on the line haul runs to be above what I'm paying for it???
Show me the paper (or the electrons).
John
John,
As I'm sure you expected, I have no studies or reports to quote indicating that "First Class" passengers are paying less than the full cost of their trips. In fact, there have been so many contradictory items published regarding the true cost of travel on Amtrak that I don't think any of them can be taken at face value. Even the figures used by the Amtrak Reform Council (now there's a great name for a government committee) for per passenger loss by train have been called into serious question and legitimately so.
I agree that "First Class" on Amtrak is by no means a bargain and it is, as you indicated, far less than "splendiferous". Perhaps the "First Class" passenger is already paying more than their fair share for accomodations. I also feel that "First Class" passengers should not pay an undue premium. My comment was directed more at the travel portion of the fare.
It is my opinion that, while the coach passenger tariff should be subsidized through taxpayer dollars, the "First Class" passenger should not receive the same subsidy.
Whenever I've travelled overnight on an Amtrak train I have always gone "First Class"
and have grumbled about the price. Still, that was my choice, and I shouldn't expect someone else to foot the bill (in any part) for that choice.
A superliner I has 9 standard bedrooms upstairs (I've stripped out the porter's section), and 5 deluxe bedrooms. Downstairs, it has 4 standard, 1 family, and 1 handicap bedroom.
9 x 2 =18
5 x 3 =10 (my wife, my son, and I have done
this.. so no whimpering)
5 x 3 = 15 NOT 10!!! JP
Edit 8-27-02
From the Professor Tom Lehrer song ... Hooray for New Math, New Math; it's so simple, so very simple that only a child can do it!!
4 x 2 = 8
4 x 1 = 4
2 x 1 = 2
Total capacity: 47 (JP NOT 42) passengers.
Now, a coach has what ... 84 seats??
Konstantin: Pound sand. $400 a night more than justifies the halving of capacity.
John
quote:
Originally posted by Konstantin:
Irish1 and PullmanCo, compare the amount of passengers that a coach can hold versus the amount of passengers that a sleeper holds.
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The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations
[This message has been edited by PullmanCo (edited 08-27-2002).]
First, when my porter is up to speed, the service in First Class more than compensates for the footprint.
IF Amtrak is going to re-price Coach/First Class rail fares (a la pre-Amtrak tariffs, where First Class was 150% of coach fare), then I expect the accomodation fare to be repriced downwards.
My gut tells me the Amtrak is recovering any subsidy in the accomodation charge.
Have a good week , John
quote:
Originally posted by Ken V:
John,---snip---
It is my opinion that, while the coach passenger tariff should be subsidized through taxpayer dollars, the "First Class" passenger should not receive the same subsidy.---snip---
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The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations
Airlines, because since 9/11 more than 10% of the population do not want to fly.
Amtrak: Because of the lack of congressional commitment for operational subsidies and for internal mis-management.
Greyhound: Well...would you want to travel cross-country on a bus??? Not me thanks....
[This message has been edited by CNJ (edited 08-18-2002).]
2- US rolling stock builders have not a clear experience on manufacturing high-speed rolling stocks. Using giant 30 metric tons axle load monsters, which equipped with axle hung traction motors; on high-speed services is a nightmare to many whom know a little bit about high-speed rolling stocks. It was very clear that giant SDP40Fs and E60s were going to derail! One of two major loco builders had not the technology of new proven AC-AC technology and its new products are relying on Siemens. And the other uses obsolete GTO technology where even third world railroads order IGBT ones!
“ Maybe Canadian based BOMBARDIER after acquiring ADtranz can afford it!”
What did you mean by the following:
<<5 x 3 =10 (my wife, my son, and I have done
this.. so no whimpering)>>
Did you mean to say 5 x 3 = 15, or 5 x 2 = 10, not that it changes your main point (but it does affect car capacity)
MP
Edited the original post. Now the ratio looks even better
John
quote:
Originally posted by MPALMER:
Pullman Co,What did you mean by the following:
<<5 x 3 =10 (my wife, my son, and I have done
this.. so no whimpering)>>Did you mean to say 5 x 3 = 15, or 5 x 2 = 10, not that it changes your main point (but it does affect car capacity)
MP
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The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations
A Plan to Liquidate Amtrak - pdf file - 17 pages - 27.8 kb
Any Comment?
[This message has been edited by jamshid (edited 08-28-2002).]
The BNSF would either use it's advantage in the NEC to make its initial foray there, or it would cut a deal and sell its stake to NS/CSX.
They'll look at the final audited data for the NEC, and make a business decision ... stay in passenger business, or abandon it.
If the business loses money, they'll get out.
Outside the corridor, it's going to be "we got out of the business in 1971. WHY in Heaven's name would we want to re-enter?"
Given an assumption that Amtrak goes away, so will passenger service in the United States.
My $0.015 (inflation, you understand)
Your mileage may vary.
John
The rolling stock? Hello, cutting torches.
quote:
Originally posted by jamshid:A Plan to Liquidate Amtrak - pdf file - 17 pages - 27.8 kb
Any Comment?
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The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations