I had always wanted to go on the Desert Wind and never did get the chance before the service ended. Does anybody have the timetable for the service? I have been looking for it for a very long time.
[This message has been edited by hurleyjp13 (edited 12-24-2002).]
Posted by MPALMER (Member # 125) on :
This topic comes up every few months. If you are asking when the service will resume, it is likely on hold indefinitely until Amtrak's finances get sorted out. It might never return.
Posted by hurleyjp13 (Member # 2167) on :
I knew that, i was wondering if anybody had the timetable to the old service before it was discontinued.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Give me a day or two and I might find the timetable. Meanwhile, it ran as a section of the California Zephyr between Chicago and Salt Lake on about the same schedule as the current #5/6. I took it from LA to SLC and I remember it left LA mid-morning, Las Vegas by evening and into Salt Lake something like 4am. It stopped at a large hotel/casino in downtown Las Vegas with enough padding in the schedule to walk around town for a while.
Posted by hurleyjp13 (Member # 2167) on :
Thank you very much for the information so far. It would be very helpful if you could get this schedule. Once again, thank you.
Posted by Ken V (Member # 1466) on :
Since I didn't have anything better to do (except shovelling snow) I managed to easily dig out a copy of the Amtrak National timetable effective April 29, 1984, and used a word processor to key in and format the data.
Here is the schedule for the Desert Wind for the spring/summer of 1984.
35
Train Number
36
2:40 PM
Chicago, IL
4:15 PM
3:25
Aurora
3:16
5:15
Galesburg, IL
1:30
6:05
Burlington, IA
12:40
6:36
Mt. Pleasant
12:05 PM
7:20
Ottumwa
11:22 AM
8:35
Osceola
10:00
9:06
Creston, IA
9:35
11:00
Omaha, NE
7:40
11:10 PM
7:30
12:15 AM
Lincoln
6:30
12:30
6:15
2:02
Hastings
4:46
2:52
Holdrege
3:54
4:10
McCook, NE
2:43 AM
5:10
Akron, CO
11:41 PM
5:40
Fort Morgan
11:10
7:30
Denver
9:45
8:10
9:05
10:30 AM
Granby
6:15
1:35 PM
Glenwood Springs
3:15
3:45
Grand Junction, CO
1:30
3:50
1:25 PM
5:05
Thompson, UT
11:35 AM
6:45
Helper
9:55
8:50
Provo
7:55
10:25
Salt Lake City
6:55
11:10 PM
6:25
1:20 AM
Delta
3:40
2:40
Milford, UT
2:45 AM
3:30
Caliente, NV
11:30 PM
6:45
Las Vegas, NV
9:05
7:00
8:50
10:40 AM
Barstow, CA
5:35
12:20 PM
San Bernadino
3:45
12:52
Pomona
3:07
1:23
Pasadena
2:35
2:05 PM
Los Angeles, CA
2:10 PM
Note that the Desert Wind, Pioneer, and California Zephyr ran combined between Chicago and Salt Lake City at that time. Since this doesn't match the recollections of TwinStarRocket there was likely a much different schedule at another time.
[This message has been edited by Ken V (edited 12-26-2002).]
Posted by hurleyjp13 (Member # 2167) on :
Thank you very much Twinstarrocket, i have been looking for this for a very long time.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
I hope this lines up in columns. This schedule is from a Oct 91 to April 92. Found it in my desk drawer at work -a daydreaming diversion.
#35 Daily #36 3 35p Chicago, IL 4 15p 4 10p Naperville, IL (BN) 3 05p 5 20p Princeton, IL 1 58p 6 14p Galesburg. IL 1 05p 7 07p Burlington, IA 12 15p 7 42p Mt. Pleasant, IA 11 40a 8 17p Ottumwa, IA 10 50a 9 47p Osceola, IA 9 28a 10 22p Creston, IA 8 55a 12 12a ar Omaha, NE lv 6 55a 12 37a lv Omaha, NE ar 6 30a 1 39a ar Lincoln, NE lv 5 33a 1 49a lv Lincoln, NE ar 5 23a 3 22a Hastings, NE 3 50a 4 15a Holdredge, NE 2 55a 5 25a McCook, NE CT 1 47a 6 58a Fort Morgan, CO MT 10 15p 8 40a ar Denver, CO lv 9 00p 9 40a lv Denver (DRGW) ar 7 45p 11 35a Winter Park(Fraser) 5 00p 12 05p Granby, CO 4 35p 3 20p Glenwood Springs 1 25p 5 20p Grand Junction, CO 11 40 a 6 35p Thompson, UT 9 45a 8 25p Helper, UT 8 10a 10 30p Provo, UT 6 05a 12 01a ar Salt Lake City lv 5 15a 12 55a lv Salt Lake (UP) ar 4 00a 4 00a Milford, UT MT 12 20a 4 55a Caliente, UT PT 9 20p 7 50a ar Las Vegas, NV lv 7 00p 8 05a lv Las Vegas, NV ar 6 45p 11 25a Barstow, CA (SF) 3 25p 12 00n Victorville, CA 2 45p 1 05p San Bernadino, CA 1 33p 2 18p Fullerton, CA 12 25p 3 00p Los Angeles, CA 11 50a
Sightseer Lounge not included SLC to LA. Diner for complete trip.
Posted by Ken V (Member # 1466) on :
It's interesting to compare the two schedules. Slightly different routings in/out of Chicago and L.A. plus a few stations stops added or dropped along the way.
Posted by tubaallen (Member # 2057) on :
Hmmm....you're right. I had no idea that schedules would have changed that much. I assume that means the same changes for the CZ outside of Chicago.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
And while we getting nostalgic over abandoned routes we never rode, the Pioneer split from the CZ at Denver and went the UP route via Greeley-Laramie-Rawlins-Ogden. Even though it was a longer route and left Denver later, it arrived in Ogden 3 hours earlier than the CZ.
It also would have been possible to go from Seattle to LA using the Pioneer and Desert Wind (there was a Thruway bus between Ogden and SLC- 36 miles). Would have made a nice round trip combined with the Coast Starlight!
Posted by MPALMER (Member # 125) on :
So Cal: Around '86 or so, the Desert Wind switched from the 'via Pasasdena' route to the 'via Fullerton route'.
Also, in the Desert Wind's last year-or-so of service it was cut back to quad-weekly, a rather brainless approach to saving money that had been suggested by the consultants Amtrak used at the time.
Posted by tubaallen (Member # 2057) on :
The Pioneer was one I DID ride. I was taking it back to Chi from Sea. However, it was in 94 during the floods, and it wasn't continuing on past Denver. That was the first problem...then....out in the desert, we lost our HEP. Talk about problems. Long story.
Posted by irish1 (Member # 222) on :
nice to see talk about the desert wind. we got married in las vegas in 92. we took the desert wind back to chicago. so its kind of my honeytmoon train.
------------------ The Copper Country Limited [Milwaukee Road] and the Peninsula 400 [CNW} still my favorites
Posted by reggierail (Member # 26) on :
Just a little story of a trip I took many years ago. I took the train out of Chicago as far as Denver where I continued to Ogden on the Pioneer. When I stepped off the train in Denver I said farewell to a good sized group of people I had met in the lounge car. We had all been tossing back a few and were pretty hung over when arriving into Denver. Everyone else was continuing on the CZ section through the Rockies. Arriving in Ogden I took the Thruway bus to Salt Lake City where I saw many of the folks I had said bye to in Denver as the train pulled into the station. The look on the faces of those people would have been a treasure to get on film. I just wish I would have had a camera. It just blew them away that I had beat them to SLC. I then rode the Desert Wind to LAX.
Reggie
------------------
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
Being a Brit there are quite a few gaps in my historical knowledge of Amtrak, and as the Desert Wind has recently appeared twice on TV over here but clearly no longer exists I was going to post a topic asking about it but most of my questions have already been answered. I don't know if it was ever shown on American TV, but in 1988 the BBC made a very popular travel documentary called "Around the World in 80 Days", introduced by ex-Monty Python star Michael Palin. It was recently repeated, and in it Palin crosses the USA by train, taking the Desert Wind from LA to Chicago and then the Lake Shore to NYC. The train left LA over an hour late (nothing new there, then!) but the consist was interesting - the train was filmed from the air and it could clearly be seen as consisting of one engine, baggage, one sleeper, cafe/lounge and two coach. No restaurant, and no separate crew sleeper. The journey was recorded in the first week of December and the train seemed quite full despite being too early for the Xmas rush. He stopped off for 24 hours at Glenwood Springs before continuing his journey the next day. The train was 90 minutes late as the Zephyr had been delayed by snow in the Rockies, and the Pioneer/Desert Wind had been added at Salt Lake City (Question - the Pioneer obviously didn't run through Wyoming in those days, so what did?). He seemed to be the only passenger at Glenwood Springs.
What went wrong with the Desert Wind and how long has it been gone? You would think that a passenger service from LA-Vegas-SLC-Denver-Chicago would be a main strategic route and the train seemed well used. I've seen a number of articles campaigning for the return of the Pioneer but the return of the Desert Wind is only talked of as a LA to Vegas shuttle.
The Desert Wind also appeared at the end of the Dustin Hoffman film "Rainman", as he catches it back from California, but we don't see the train, just some passengers getting into two single level (not bi-level) coaches. Was this a piece of Hollywood license or were single level coaches used on the route in 1984?
Posted by Cthetrains (Member # 2148) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken V: [B]Since I didn't have anything better to do (except shovelling snow) SNOW!!!! Any chance you could shovel say, 1 or 2 inches out my way? I haven't even seen a single snowflake since last winter..
Posted by trainman1 (Member # 1392) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr williams: (Question - the Pioneer obviously didn't run through Wyoming in those days, so what did?)
Nothing...Wyoming had no Amtrak service between the time the California Zephyr was rerouted in 1983 and the time the Pioneer was rerouted in the early '90s.
quote:Was this a piece of Hollywood license or were single level coaches used on the route in 1984?
I'm pretty sure by 1984, all Amtrak's western trains were fully Superliner-equipped...although "Rain Man" was actually a few years later than that (1988 or 1989, if I recall correctly), and by then, the Desert Wind was definitely a Superliner train.
When there's a train scene in the average Hollywood film, you can be pretty sure that they used whatever equipment was easiest for them to get their hands on, rather than worrying too much about being completely authentic.
[This message has been edited by trainman1 (edited 01-08-2003).]
Posted by MPALMER (Member # 125) on :
The Desrt Wind disappeared in April '97 if memory is accurate. Some time in the 90's it was cut from daily to quad weekly, but lost a good number of people because it was too annoying to remember what days the train ran. It was never that popular for a trip from LA to Las Vegas because it took a good 7 hours for a trip you could drive in 4-5 hours, and the southbound return trip left too early for most people. The Santa Fe-Union Pacific route was much more circuitous than the Interstates, even with miles of 75-mph running. As for Wyoming, if I recall at some point they moved the Pioneer-SFZ meeting point from Denver to Ogden, and stopped running on the UP through Wyoming.
Posted by V/line (Member # 2199) on :
Hello Mr Williams & Hurleyjp13, I too thoroughly enjoyed Michael Palins' "Around the World in 80 Days", & other great doco's from him, although at that time I had not travelled on the "Desert Wind" I did travel on it in '96. It stopped at Union Plaza Hotel station, ironically, I believe one of the pioneering hotels at Las Vegas, and I also believe it had strong connections to Union Pacific. You are correct it had a "cafe lounge" car, the diner going through to Emeryville/Oakland on the 'Zephyr. Ahhh the memories......Mike, in Australia. PS.I have considerable footage of the "Desert Wind" on home video & the T/T of that journey.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
I have a timetable from circa 1995 (I can't find it right now). It showed the Pioneer and Desert Wind running on alternate days, ie one day the Desert Wind would split from the California Zephyr at Salt Lake City and the next day the Pioneer would instead split from the Zephyr at Denver.
It would be nice to see a return of either, especially as the Pioneer's route is supposed to be even better than the Zephyr's through the Rockies.
Geoff M.
Posted by reggierail (Member # 26) on :
I was the LSA in the lounge car on several trips on the Desert Wind during the summer of '92. The lounge car was a Santa Fe Heritage fleet Hi-Level Diner. Half of the car was a lounge and the other a diner. The galley was on the lower level and the food was brought up to the upper level on dumbwaiters where it was kept in steam tables along a buffet line. There were food service employees behind the counter that would serve your choices and a waiter at the end of the line would take your food and seat you at a table. If I remember there was seating only for about 24 people in the dining section and about the same number in the lounge area. Another interesting fact is that the car was the only Amtrak passenger car with 6 wheel trucks. The wheels would let out a god awful squeal as the train went around a curve.
Reggie
------------------
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
As I recall, there were several different iterations to the "Desert Wind/Zephyr/Pioneer" service over the years.
I first rode this train in 1982. At that time, the train ran via Denver and Cheyenne, and did a three-way split at Ogden (Pioneer and Desert Wind cut off). The non-Amtrak "Rio Grande Zephyr" ran from DEN to SLC on its own route. I took the Desert Wind (via Pasadena) to Salt Lake City, changed stations (the DW used the ex-UP station, the RGZ the DRGW station), rode to Denver, then returned west on the SFZ via Ogden.
In 1991, I rode the "Pioneer". At that time, the three-way split occurred in SLC, at the former UP station, and the Pioneer ran via Ogden and thence to Portland. Shortly thereafter, the pattern changed again. In 1992, the Pioneer split at Denver, ran to Cheyenne (actually Borie, WY) and thence west to Ogden and north to Portland. The DW continued to split at SLC. That continued, AFAIK, until the discontinuence of both trains in 1997.
At some point between 1982 and 1992, the DW was re-routed via Fullerton rather than Pasadena. Of course, now the only route available on BNSF is through Fullerton.
Posted by UncleBuck44 (Member # 2049) on :
Im trying to find out what the total mileage between Chicago and LA was on the Desert Wind. Can Somebody please help me out.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
The Oct 91-Apr 92 timetable shows a mileage of 2397 Chi-LA. From Denver via DRGW. SLC - Barstow via UP, then on Santa Fe thru Victorville and San Bernadino. The mileage on the 1984 timetable that Ken V. has on this thread might be different because there was different routes CHI-Galesburg(BN in 91) and Barstow-LA than the one I have.
Interesting: they listed a 'Lounge Car' from LA to SLC and 'Sightseer Lounge Car' from SLC to Chi.
Posted by reggierail (Member # 26) on :
The lounge car from LA to SLC was the Hi Level Diner that was half lounge car and half diner. It would shuttle back and forth between LA and SLC. The Sightseer lounge would be on the California Zephyr section of the train that the Desert Wind would hook up with in SLC.
I then rode the Desert Wind to LAX.