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Cory (o:}=
As much of a temptation it would be to resort name calling as Headless does, I'll try to practice restraint.
For one, criticism should always be welcome when appropriate. Even the the most dedicated 'foamer' has his or her share of criticism for Amtrak. It needs fixing-granted. Nonetheless, there is a fine line between intellegent criticism and just sarcasm and ridicule.
For your information, I'm one of those foamers. I know when somebody isn't interested in discussing train stuff-and I know to leave angry little people like you alone. Nonetheless, I've had some very nice conversations with unseasoned riders, and for the most part, I have found some very interested audiences-especially parents with kids. The Sightseer Lounge seems to be a social hubs at sometimes even the early am hours.
Anyway...
Not everybody can afford to fly. Others have no desire to drive or they don't have a reliable vehicle to drive long distance. I think sufficive to say it beats the Fart Cart, oh, I mean the Greyhound.
If you want to talk about money pits-lets talk about the multi-billion dollar bail-outs of the airlines-millions of dollars to maintain the FAA--airport construction---delays----cancelations----unreasonable fares---duct-taped parts on planes--so on and so on.
Lastly--next time just fly the (un)friendly skies.
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Patrick
On AOL's proprietary passenger rail boards we've got a fellow who tells every potential train traveler to fly, and then quotes them an air fare. He also gets nasty. On top of that he claims to be a long-time Amtrak employee! When he crosses the line with personal insults his posts get deleted by the moderator.
When I first saw the "headless" post in the other thread I thought it might be the same guy. But then I realized it wasn't because, unlike the AOL guy, Headless can at least spell, knows how to use a SHIFT key, and knows the difference between a comma and an apostrophe. I do give him a little credit for that (and only that).
Anyway, these guys aren't worth our time. They have their minds made up and nothing we can say will change that. If you choose to respond to them, do so for your own amusement, not for their enlightenment.
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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy
Russell in VA
I come from a po-dunk valley town called Bakersfield, Ca. (Toy-you've probably heard of it). The difference between flying and jumping on the train is hundreds of dollars.
Example: Bakersfield to San Francisco round trip during the summer--$560 via United Express---$102 RT via Amtrak. Big difference. Taking the train really matters when you live in a small market area for airlines.
While I don't know where headless resides, I do know this much: These little towns that he states 'can live without Amtrak' like Alpine, Texas--their only other choice is to drive to El Paso or San Antonio and fly out of their to get anywhere.
I don't want anybody to misunderstand me. I have my fair share of complaints about Amtrak. We should ALWAYS welcome intellegent debate in this forum. But keep it dignified and, well, INTELLEGENT.
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Patrick
Reggie
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Most aren't judging their comments on any experiences what-so-ever, they are just using bits and pieces of things they read in other areas of the board; or whatever comes to mind as they type. I'm glad you re-directed also, but to be honest, is this guy really worth wasting memory space on the bulletin boards' servers? I've learned from my 8 years of visiting various chatrooms to just ignore the 'village idiots' and not even reward them with a response of any kind. They eventually go away.
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Cory (o:}=
One thing that amazes me while reading this forum, however, is the confidence that some posters appear to have regarding the survival of Amtrak. With our nation's passenger rail system on the chopping block, it seems to me that it will take a miracle for Amtrak to survive the next few weeks. My only hope is that the public seems to want passenger rail to continue (I think I read over 70%). So that keeps people like Mr. Headless very much in the minority, I suppose.
I have an enormous amount of confidence in Amtrak's new president, Mr. Gunn, and also appreciate his excellent sense of humor and his wonderful ability to play hard ball. With a man like Mr. Gunn in charge and with the extraordinary people on this board, I pray that Amtrak will find a way to survive. My guess is that Mr. Headless is probably a disgruntled member of the Amtrak Reform Council, and if ever there was a waste of government money that has to be it.
In the meantime, I just topped 15,000 guest reward points and am looking forward to claiming my free round trip ticket across two regions of this great country of ours.
It's good to be here. I hope y'all don't mind my ramblings.
As for myself, I'm not too concerned with a possible loss of Amtrak. True it would be a terrible shame, but during the past 10 years, how many times has this 'rumor' popped up, only to be smashed at 'THE LAST MINUTE'(lmao) by "intense negotiations" in congress?
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Cory (o:}=
Although I am praying that intense negotiations will extend the life of Amtrak, I feel sorry for the employees who have to live under the constant stress of seeing their employer disappear. I have spoken to many Amtrak employees about this and they say they're used to it.
I hope you are correct that Amtrak will survive but you must know that this deadline is significant because it marks the anniversary when the railroad was supposed to make a profit. Of course we all know that no national railroad can survive without subsidies but try telling that to the likes of John McCain.
But for all the abuse that has been heaped upon the Republican administration, I think it is significant to remember that Amtrak was created when Richard Nixon was president. Furthermore, it has never been clear to me that the Democrats ever gave much of a fiddler's fart for our passenger railroad.
If Amtrak is to survive, it must be done in a bi-partisan manner and I think congress realizes that it would be political suicide to kill it off. From the perspective of a resident of the great Southwest, you better believe I will not be happy if my tax dollars are spent on supporting the Acella or the Surfliner (though they are handsome trains).
In short, long live the long distant trains and especially The Southwest Chief!
And oh yeah, can somebody please tell me what a "foamer" is, please. Thanks!
As for the Surfliner, the improvements to the appearance of the train and the station facilities look great. Much of the funds were provided by a local bond measure that was approved ~ 1990; it was not all done with federal taxpayer funds.
If you want to attract new riders (non-railfans) to the rails, you cannot have the equipment and station-area right of way look like graffiti alley or a junkyard.
I also would not be so harsh on Greyhound. Maybe some routes are dogs (ha ha) but others are ok...I occasionally use the bus as a counterpart to Amtrak in areas with less-than-daily service or other areas where you can't do an out-and-back trip in a day.
It beats driving and you can 'foam' inside the bus (though try not to alarm the other passengers ;-D)
Anyway, I have to agree: Disbanding Amtrak would be Political Suicide. Most officials have bigger fish to fry. Most criticism is nothing more than election year bantering that goes away once the dust clears on the congressional elections. What hardley any official will admit is that the key to Amtrak's survival lies in what it has been so heavily criticized for: pork barrell. What congreeman is going to vote to eliminate the route that runs through his or her district? I find it ironic that most of Amtrak's critics are critics because there is no service running through their district. John McCain just ticked off because there is no service running into Phoenix. He can blame UP for that. But look where the majority of votes lay. Southern California, The Bay Area, Chicago Area, The Midwest (St Louis, Kansas City), Texas, Florida, New England, The Northwest (Portland to Seattle), and of course the Northeast Corridor by itself! Do you think Any representative in these areas want to see their service go-Heck No! Do you think there's enough clout in these areas for some representatives to go to bat for Amtrak-Heck Yea! Do you think these representatives want a broken up system or a connected system? You be the judge.
Amtrak aint going anywhere!!!! Neither are it's long distance trains! Three horrays for David Gunn! Horray!!!!!!!!Horray!!!!!!!Horray!!!!!
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Patrick
[This message has been edited by amtraxmaniac (edited 01-30-2003).]
I just love it! Then I'm a foamer and didn't even know it:
http://www.alibi.com/alibi/2002-07-25/news_section.html
http://www.alibi.com/alibi/2001-08-16/oped_section.html
(Very proud to be foaming)
Chucky
[This message has been edited by Chucky (edited 01-30-2003).]
I think I may come across as a "foamer" to some, but I don't consider myself to be a "railfan." My passion for Amtrak advocacy has more to do with my sense of fairness than anything else. I cannot tolerate the incessant political abuse of something so valuable to this country.
Patrick, as you probably know I live on the Monterey Peninsula, and I know exactly what you mean about air fares from smaller airports. Fares in and out of Monterey are pretty high. When I visit my mother in Salem, Oregon, Amtrak's standard sleeper fares (for two) are quite competitive with coach air fares, and I can get to within five miles of my mother's place. If I flew, I would have to go to Portland and take a bus to Salem.
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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy
As for being a "foamer"...sometimes I would qualify. I am the only one in my office who accepts jury duty in a so-so part of town because it is near train tracks and you can see trains from the Jury Assembly Room...
As for Amtrak surviving at least in part; yes, we do need some sort of long distance passenger service, but I would be concerned about the selected routes....
to be continued, class is over
Quote from atsf "I think "foamer" is a rather derogatory name."
It may be taken as some to be derogatory, but can you give me one example of a group, (such as those deemed 'foamer') who have been given a name that wasn't in some sense taken as derogatory by someone, somewhere? and if you do know of such an example, I'm not, nor will I ever be, called by whatever term you come up with.
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Cory (o:}=
[This message has been edited by Cthetrains (edited 01-31-2003).]