Lately, I've come across what seems to be odd Amtrak pricing on sleeper accommodations roundtrip from NY to Orlando (Silver Star). The cost of a deluxe sleeper is quadruple ($1200) the cost of a standard ($310). Over the past few years the cost of a deluxe has been just a little less than double the cost of a standard. Can anyone explain the jump in cost of the deluxe sleeper?
I'm trying to book a sleeper on the Silver Star for March/April 2004
snake Member # 2430
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Welcome to the wonderful, mysterious world of "yield management".
It's the reason that you can fly coast-to-coast for $198 squeezed between a dude payin' $2500 and another one payin' something in between.
Don't ask me to explain it, but if you can't sleep some night try doing a google search for "yield management"
royaltrain Member # 622
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It makes no sense. This coming New Year's day I am booked in a standard bedroom from Winter Park (just north of Orlando)to New York and my ticket price is $148. The deluxe (which is what I preferred) is quoted at $681, more than quadruple the price of a standard--I certainly wasn't willing to pay such an extortionate price. These fares are for the sleeping car portions only as I have a North America Rail Pass. In terms of travelling time, it is about 22 hours from Winter Park to New York. On #2 from L.A. to Winter Park on 28 Dec., my deluxe bedroom is $502 for a journey of about 72 hours. On the Coast Starlight from Seattle to L.A. on 22 Dec., my deluxe bedroom is only $375 for a journey of about 35 hours (just a few days ago Amtrak is now quoting more than $750 for that same bedroom). Of course this doesn't answer your question, other than to say Amtrak's yield management is obviously designed to squeeze extra revenue out of people apparently willing to pay such fares. Or do those bedrooms go empty? Your guess is as good as mine.
dilly Member # 1427
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The Florida-New York trains cater far more heavily to "snowbirds" and other relatively well-heeled retirees than any of Amtrak's other routes.
A great many of the older passengers on those trains have little or no desire to cram themselves into a Standard. Since they're perfectly willing and able to pay top dollar for the "extra comfort" of Deluxe, you charge as much as the market will bear.
graynt Member # 17
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I ve encountered so many price fluctuations over the years on sleepers. The day after Labor Day I m paying $200 for a standard sleeper from Jacksonville to LA on the Sunset. If I left Labor day or before the price would have been much higher. I made these reservations in April. The same room now costs $350 or so. I m returning on the SW Chief and paying $225 for a standard to Chicago. I believe these are rock bottom prices. Best deal I ever got was $166 from Chicago to Palm Springs on the Texas Eagle. Im on a budget and considering that meals are included the prices are quite a bargain.
NYRailFan Member # 2692
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Thanks for the replies. I think I understand -- Amtrak's prices for sleepers are beyond explanation.
Sigh!! Today, I put a hold on a deluxe sleeper for 2 adults and 1 small child. I'm still considering booking 2 standards.
royaltrain Member # 622
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Someone at Trainorders posted an announcement by Amtrak that beginning this fall, fares will once again be published in the timetables. Does this mean that yield management will become a thing of the past and passengers will be denied the joy of trying to find the best fares?
dilly Member # 1427
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NYRailFan:
If you decide to go for two Standard Rooms, request specific rooms when making your reservation. For example, Room #3 and Room #4 are directly across the corridor from each other.
If you simply leave it up to Amtrak's computers to make the choice, you could end up with rooms at opposite ends of the car (or, if you're truly unlucky, rooms in separate cars).
Unfortunately, you can't do it on the Amtrak web site. You can request specific rooms only when booking your trip by phone with a live agent.
[This message has been edited by dilly (edited 08-07-2003).]
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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quote:Originally posted by royaltrain: Someone at Trainorders posted an announcement by Amtrak that beginning this fall, fares will once again be published in the timetables. Does this mean that yield management will become a thing of the past and passengers will be denied the joy of trying to find the best fares?
Her's what I don't get. "Amtrak dropped fares from its timetables a little more than two decades ago when the company started to implement new pricing strategies similar to those of the airlines."
I don't ever recall seeing fares published in timetables of the '70s. I have some from the Starlight in front of me and they don't have fares listed.
Regarding the larger issue, I'm not really clear on what this means for Amtrak or the customer. Adjusting prices to market conditions is something most businesses have to do to keep up with the competition.
For example, after 9/11 air fares from Monterey dropped substantially. Prior to the airline discounts a typical trip for two from Monterey to Salem in an Amtrak Standard Bedroom was competitive with flying. After the airlines discounted their fares, flying became much cheaper. Amtrak then adjusted its pricing to remain competitive.
Is this report suggesting fares will become inflexible and thus not able to adjust to changing market conditions? Won't that affect Amtrak's ability to attract riders?
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
posted
I don't think anyone is suggesting that train fares will be totally inflexible -- but simply that the fares will no longer change on a day by day, hour by hour, and even minute by minute basis, as they often seem to do (particularly on Amtrak's more "popular" routes).
Bus fares on Trailways or Greyhound, for example, are an extreme example of such simplification.
The bus companies will adjust the fare between, say, New York and Boston twice a year or so, but that's about it. Generally, the fare on March 6 is the same as it was on January 23. And that holds true whether you're leaving town at two o'clock in the afternoon or three o'clock in the morning -- or whether you bought your ticket a month in advance or only two minutes before departure.
David Gunn seems to be talking about something a little more complex. As a rule, long distance bus companies don't have "peak," "off peak," or "shoulder" fares (which are determined by the time of day you begin your journey). But the practice is common among commuter rail lines, as well as most European passenger railroads. Gunn isn't really proposing anything radically new.
Presumably, Amtrak fares would simply be adjusted upward or downward on a less frequent (and easier to manage) seasonal basis.
The big question is whether it would make train travel far cheaper or even more expensive than it is now.
[This message has been edited by dilly (edited 08-07-2003).]
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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quote:Originally posted by dilly: Presumably, Amtrak fares would be adjusted upward or downward on a less frequent (and easier to manage) seasonal basis.
That seems to make more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy: Her's what I don't get. "Amtrak dropped fares from its timetables a little more than two decades ago when the company started to implement new pricing strategies similar to those of the airlines."
I don't ever recall seeing fares published in timetables of the '70s. I have some from the Starlight in front of me and they don't have fares listed.
I think sample fares were only ever listed in the national timetable. I only have a few from the '70s, but I can report that there was a one-page list of sample fares in the January 16, 1972, timetable; in the May 15, 1975, issue, there were three pages of charts of fares between major cities. After those two, the next national timetable I have is the October 28, 1979 issue, which doesn't have fares listed. However, I recall that Amtrak published a separate brochure called "All About Amtrak Fares," at least in the early 1980s, which had sample fares in it.
(1975 fares on the Coast Starlight, for example: one-way between L.A. and Oakland, $23.25 in coach, $40.00 in a roomette; between L.A. and Seattle, $64.25 in coach, $116.50 in a roomette. From L.A. to San Diego, the one-way fare was $7.00, which is exactly one-fourth of the full coach fare in 2003, if I recall correctly.)
NYRailFan Member # 2692
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I just returned from vacation and the power blackout. Thanks for the replies.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Folks, it's called supply and demand.
Consider the configuration of a Superliner Sleepr: 14Std, 1Spl, 1Fam, 5Dlx, or 21 rooms 5/21 means 23% of the rooms are Deluxe.
Now to the Viewliner: 1Spl, 2Dlx, 12Std, or 15 rooms. 2/15 or 13% of the rooms are Deluxe.
Supply/Demand that is what a parrot would call it; that is also what Prof Nichols called it (instructor, Econ 101).
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