1. Name an Amtrak train that operated in "dark territory."

2. Over which eye did James J. Hill wear a patch, and why?

3. Name the town where the southbound Coast Starlight begins its ascent of the Oregon Cascades.

4. Which cost more to build: Cincinnati Union Terminal or Los Angeles Union Station? (BONUS: Which of the two was designed to handle 33 trains a day.)

5. Name two cities that have more than one Amtrak station as of 11/02/2003, and name the stations.

Your answer to #5 also is correct, RRRich. There is one more Amtrak station in Boston, however. And another city with two stations remains unmentioned.

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Originally posted by CG96:
A guess as to #1: The KY cardinal, between Indianapolis & Louisville. I think certain sections of the track between those two cities was un-signalled territory.

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Originally posted by dnsommer:
Five Amtrivia Questions

2. Over which eye did James J. Hill wear a patch, and why?

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-02-2003).]

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#4: Cincinnati, I think its a trick question sort of. Most might think LA but its actually Cincy.

The 'dark territory' trains mentioned so far are not the one I had in mind, but you guys could be right nevertheless.

I'll post the answers I have tomorrow evening. I guess I better brace for possible attack!

The bonus question remains unanswered.

Dave

1. Name an Amtrak train that operated in "dark territory." The Janesville Service did as did the Kentucky Cardinal.

2. Over which eye did James J. Hill wear a patch, and why? Left, after a childhood accident.

3. Name the town where the southbound Coast Starlight begins its ascent of the Oregon Cascades. Oakridge

4. Which cost more to build: Cincinnati Union Terminal or Los Angeles Union Station? (BONUS: Which of the two was designed to handle 33 trains a day.)
Los Angeles Union Passenger Station.

5. Name two cities that have more than one Amtrak station as of 11/02/2003, and name the stations.

Was my Answer to Number 5 correct, with St. Louis?

1. Name an Amtrak train that operated in "dark territory."

The Vermonter operated on RailTex's New England Central shortline between St. Albans, VT and Palmer, MA for a period of time, and this was dark territory, according 'The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Steam & Rail' by Colin Garratt and Max Wade Mathews.

This route also made The Vermonter the only Amtrak train that did not operate on a Class 1 railroad. I believe the train now runs once again on Guilford trackage north of Springfield, MA.

I also believe the Vermonter went south of Palmer to New London for a period of time, too.

The guys who wrote this book may be partially incorrect. It did and still does run St. Albans-White River Jct.-Brattleboro on former Central Vermont tracks. But I suspect what they wrote about the train operating Brattleboro-Palmer-Springfield-New Haven and then south is wrong. I think it operated Brattleboro-Palmer-New London and then south.

2. Over which eye did James J. Hill wear a patch, and why?

Right eye/bow and arrow mishap. RRChina got it

3. Name the town where the southbound Coast Starlight begins its ascent of the Oregon Cascades.

Oakridge. Mr. Toy got it first.

4. Which cost more to build: Cincinnati Union Terminal or Los Angeles Union Station? (BONUS: Which of the two was designed to handle 33 trains a day.)

Cincinnati Union Terminal, opened in 1933. It cost a record $41 million depression era dollars to build. Uncle Buck got this one, but it is $11 million dollar LAUPT that was designed to handle just 33 trains a day. CUT was designed to handle 216. Now it handles just one, while LAUPT handles many, many more than 33. An intersting turn of events. (info from 'Great American Train Stations', Hans and April Halberstadt)

5. Name two cities that have more than one Amtrak station as of 11/02/2003, and name the stations.

Boston - North Station, South Station, Back Bay Station

Richmond, VA - Staples Mill Road Station, Main Street Station

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-04-2003).]

What I was looking for was a city with two stations with the same city name, as provided in the answers.

I am unfamiliar with 'Stockton ACE' station. What is ACE?

Stockton is yet another correct answer.

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-04-2003).]

-156 W. Commercial Street (Sunset Ltd)
-2701 N. Garey Avenue (SW Chief)

Current timetable lists one Pomona station at 100 W. Commercial Street.

Too bad. I rather liked the N. Garey Avenue ATSF depot.

Dave

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-04-2003).]

You may be confusing Broad Street Station with Main Street Station. Both still exist, but neither is active.

Broad Street was the city's "union station," used most famously by Florida trains. It was abandoned early in the Amtrak era, and converted into a science museum in (I think) the 1980s.

Main Street is an older, partially-abandoned, ex-RF&P station. Amtrak trains to Newport News roll by it, but haven't stopped there for decades (if ever). Work is presently underway to restore service to the station as part of a larger economic revival of downtown Richmond, but no concrete date has been set for completion.

The Vermonter still travels from Palmer to St. Albans on the New Englad Central (ex-CV), and is not likely to return to Guilford's Connecticut River line anytime soon. The problems started in 1987, when Guilford downgraded its Springfield-Brattleboro segment, forcing Amtrak to re-route the Montrealer--the Vermonter's predecessor--to the Central Vermont via New London. Later, Amtrak amended the re-route to join the CV at Palmer, decreasing mileage and returning Vermont/Montreal service to Springfield. The Vermonter travels this same route to St. Albans today.

Not sure how much of that remains dark teritory.

Correction to Question #5 ANSWER...
I meant to write Richmond/Staples Mill Road and Richmond/Main Street Station - not Broad Street Station.

Main Street Station was scheduled to reopen on 10/30/2003. Anyone know if it actually has reopened? Trains have passed through the station but not stopped since 1975 when a severe flood of The James River made the facility unsafe.

Richmond plans to make Main Street Station a regional intermodal transit center now that the building and surrounding district it's in are protected by new floodwalls erected in 1999. So far, these floodwalls remain untested.

The rails leading to Main Street Station are on very high, sturdy trestles. It's also just steps away from the famous triple crossing.

David

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-04-2003).]

Richmond's Main Street station was re-opened in October, 2003 after a major renovation. However, for the time being, only Amtrak's Newport News trains will be using it.

The question was: "Over which eye did James J. Hill wear a patch, and why."

RRCHINA got the details of JJ's blindness in his right eye correct, and I suggest he should be allowed to keep that great prize he won. Heck, he probably has already squandered his winnings and it would be difficult if not impossible to get him to return it.

But the question was over which eye he wore a patch, and why. My answer is neither eye, except for an occassional halloween when he dressed up as a pirate, or maybe when he was cruising pickup bars and used the patch thing to look "mysterious." Or maybe he used a patch over his left eye when he discovered the morning afer that his catch at those aforementioned saloons was coyote ugly.

You see, I never have come across a photo of JJ wearing a patch over his eye. His statue in front of the Havre, MT, station: no patch that I recall. His images that can be found in and around the Astoria Column: again, no patch.

So I posed the patch question to Eileen R. McCormack, Assoc. Curator, James J. Hill Library in St. Paul, MN. Her response: "As far as I know he never wore a patch. Although the optic nerve was destroyed, he did have muscular control over the eye so the loss of vision was not apparent to others."

So, unless someone can document evidence to the contrary, I stand by my answer to Question #2. Again, my answer is seldom if ever, and if he did, it had something to do with halloween or womanizing.

You're right! No mention of a patch! Perhaps the word 'pirate' subliminally suggests he wore a patch, and thus my error was born.

1. Attach keyboard to foot.
2. Put foot in mouth.

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Originally posted by dnsommer:
I am unfamiliar with 'Stockton ACE' station. What is ACE?

Stockton is yet another correct answer.

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ACE = Altamont Commuter Express. It is a rush-hour only weekday service that runs from Stockton to San Jose, started in the late 90s. It uses a platform adjacent to the SP station in Stockton. The Amtrak San Joaquins that run to Sacramento also use this station platform; the other San Joaquins use the Santa Fe station.

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Originally posted by dnsommer:
[B]When did Pomona, CA move and lose/combine one of its two former Amtrak Stations? They were at:

-156 W. Commercial Street (Sunset Ltd)
-2701 N. Garey Avenue (SW Chief)

Current timetable lists one Pomona station at 100 W. Commercial Street.

Dave

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Amtrak rerouted the now-gone Desert Wind in April '86 to the Santa Fe route via Fullerton. The Southwest Chief was then rerouted via Fullerton early in '94, and the Pomona and Pasadena stations closed.

FYI: There will soon be two in OAK. The existing one at Jack London and a new one soon at the Colliseum adjacent to BART.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I will be right because (unfortunately) it's where I am.

And the winning answers are...
Buffalo-Depew station, and
Buffalo-Exchange Street station.

Where are my 2500 Guest Rewards points for getting that right??? I'm serious!

So we have Buffalo Exchange and Depew. We have Boston South, North, and Back Bay. We have Stockton Amtrak and ACE. We have Richmond Main Street and Staples Mill Rd (with some debate).

Cities with two stations geographically but not in name include Dearborn/Greenfield Village, MI (unconfirmed; but a basic search shows this is correct) and St. Louis/Kirkwood, MO (Kirkwood being within The City of St. Louis proper - not county - remains unconfirmed).

And when a small ship hit the Empire Service Manhattan Swing Bridge a year or so ago NYC had both Penn Station and Grand Central as Amtrak stations once more, if only for a day, but just for a day. This fact never really counted, though.

And incidentally, until not so long ago, Philadelphia had three Amtrak Stations: 30th Street Station, Suburban Station (Penn Center), and 52nd Street Station. What happened? And is North Philadelphia part of Philadelphia proper, or is it a separate municipality? If North Philadelphia is part of Philadelphia, The Cream Cheese City would have been an all-time record holder, with a total number of four Amtrak Stations within its city limits.

Chicago. How many stations did Amtrak ever operate from simultaneously in Chicago? What were they? In Amtrak's early days Central Station was used. What became of the place? And were there other stations? What trains used which stations? When were all Chicago Amtrak operations consolidated at Union Station?

And then there is Montreal. Montreal was once served by Amtrak trains at Montreal-Central CN (Montrealer/Washingtonian), and Montreal- Windsor CP(Adirondack). As most of you know, only The Adirondack serves Montreal now, and it uses Central Station/VIA. Was a special track needed to bring the Adirondack into Central? Didn't both The Adirondondack and The Montrealer cross the US/Canadian Border at the same place and use the same tracks to Montreal itself? Did they cross the St. Lawrence on different bridges? What became of Windsr Station? Isn't Windsor Station some sort of mall or atrium arcade now? Windsor Station was a great but sadly empty station when I was visited it in the early '80s.

Come to think of it, The Montrealer used to serve both Montreal-Central and Montreal-West, if I'm not mistaken.

But it's all mere history now. Maybe if we forget about the past, it will repeat itself.

In some respects, that would be okay with me.

Dave

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-08-2003).]

DER and GFV are both within the Dearborn, MI city limits. The address shown in the national timetable for GFV is the Henry Ford Museum. Interestingly, according to the USPS website the zipcode shown for GFV (48216) is incorrect. That's a Detroit zipcode. Both the USPS and the Museum's website show the Museum's address within zipcode 48124 (Dearborn).

North Philadelphia ia only an area of the City of Philadelphia, not a separate entity. So that's a definite 2.

I am a couple of years out of date on the others, though. If I recall, Suburban Station is used only for the SEPTA commuter trains, and not the long distance (Amtrak) trains going west towards Harrisburg. I believe the latter all terminate at 30th Street (or continued onorth to NYC or south towards DC)..

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Originally posted by stlboomer:
Kirkwood, MO and St. Louis, MO are separate municipalities located in separate counties.

[This message has been edited by stlboomer (edited 11-08-2003).]

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The station was unmanned. It is shown in the May, 1974 timetable through at least the October, 1979 timetable, but no address for it was provided. 52nd Street Station was served by one train, Silverliner #601, and it stopped at the station at the very early hour of 5:53 a.m. on weekdays. Anybody ever ride it?

New York City also had some "close in" stops on the mainlines long ago. The NYC had stations at 59th Street and 86th Street along Park Avenue.

Similarly. the New Haven RR had stops along its Hell Gate Route in The Bronx. Amtrak flies right through The Bronx nowadays. There is no commuter service on the line. Some public transit supporters in the New York City area have suggested bringing commuter service back to the Hell Gate Line. Many New Haven Line commuters would find Penn Station more convenient to their offices than Grand Central, but Metro North says that while such service could be provided, Penn Station itself has no capacity for any more trains than those the station already handles from Amtrak, NJT, and the LIRR.

The LIRR's former main line segment from Jamaica to Long Island City opposite midtown Manhattan lost its passenger service not too long ago. In its final decade this poorly patronized line decayed into a bumpy, decrepit branch line through the heart of Queens. The LIRR still provides some service to Atlantic Avenue and Hunterspoint Avenue within Queens and Brooklyn. There is talk now of extending the Atlantic Avenue branch into lower Manhattan.

All of these former trunk lines once had smaller stations within the city limits besides their principal terminals, much like 52nd Street in Philadelphia.

Dave

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-09-2003).]