So far no luck in response to emails sent to the "moderator"; anyone out there who can pay a personal visit to Fullerton
 

Gilbert,

I appreciate your concern and have passed a request on to our System
Administrator to remove the indicated post and all other non-rail related
posts from the RAILforum. There is no moderation of the RAILforum and
there is no way at this time to prevent offending parties from just
signing back on under a different false name and continuing to post such
material to the RAILforum. We have a very small staff at TrainWeb and do
not have the staff, time or funding to moderate the forums. If the
operation of the RAILforum becomes a legal liability to TrainWeb, we will
have no choice but to shut down the RAILforum until we can locate a
qualified volunteer to become the moderator of the RAILforum. I would
view the task of such a volunteer just to be to remove posts that are not
railroad related or that have been posted to the wrong forum or that are
personal attacks on other forum users.

----- Original message -----
From: "GILBERT B NORMAN"
To: steve@trainweb.com
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:45:55 -0800
Subject: Priority - SERIOUS and Potentially Libelous Abuse at RailForum

Sir--

Your immediate attention to this matter is requested:
http://www.railforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/001589.html

GBN
--
Steve Grande - steve@trainweb.com
Trains On The Web? TrainWeb.com !
 

Let me say, that the vast majority of posters here are people of excellent character. Until recently I've felt this was the most civilized board I've participated in on any topic. I was always impressed that we all got along so well without a chaperone. But one or two jerks can come along and spoil the fun for everyone. Clearly, some sort of monitoring is needed now.

------------------
Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

The Del Monte Club Car
 

But technically speaking, could this forum have two or three co-moderators? If so, I'd be happy to be part of a "board of directors" that would share cleanup duties.

Regardless, I suggest a few simple rules:

1) Only posts directly related to Amtrak -- and to traveling on Amtrak -- are permitted. That means no polling everyone about their Top 10 favorite TV sitcoms. Take it elsewhere.

2) Obscene, insulting, or otherwise offensive posts (or any post or thread unrelated to Amtrak) will simply "disappear." No polite warnings will be given.

3) Any post that's simply a thinly-disguised "end run" around the above rules (i.e. "If every Amtrak sleeping car was equipped with a satellite dish, which 10 TV sitcoms would you watch?") will also disappear.

4) If technically feasible, any member who posts an obscene message -- like the one we've all seen -- will be blocked from posting in the future. One strike and you're out. If you post another offensive message under a different name, you'll be blocked again. And again.

None of the above will completely keep the chronically immature (and you know who you are) from briefly slipping under the radar. But it's a start.

Just don't respond to them. To a clueless child, there's nothing more irritating than being completely ignored.

[This message has been edited by dilly (edited 12-06-2003).]
 

I like dilly's concept of a "board of directors." Is there any interest in selecting this board democratically? We could elect, say, five members to serve on this board for, say, 1 year. Members willing to serve could email their availability to one person (let's say Mr. Toy), who would then post the names on this forum. Voting would then also be done by email, with only the top five vote-getters being posted after the election. The elected board would then identify from its ranks the primary moderator (the remaining board members would be alternates).

I find many of the participants of this forum to be creative and sharp thinkers. I'd like us to come up with our idea to solve what essentially boils down to our problem. Any other ideas?

[This message has been edited by zephyr (edited 12-06-2003).]
 

------------------
Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

The Del Monte Club Car
 

------------------
JONATHON D. ORTIZ
 

We all could do without these incidents, to be sure. Sadly, however, this is by no means the first time I've seen a personal attack like this one in this forum.

However, I must say that even in consideration of this incident I am wary of this group becoming moderated. Why? I believe a moderator should have moderate views. This is not the always the case. Whoever has the task of moderating must differentiate between personalities and principles.

Someone given the power to remove and/or alter our posts could easily become a censor of sorts.

This is why I will only support the appointment of a moderator provided that his or her's sole duty is to remove obscenities and personal attacks.

Some of you are suggesting that the moderator also become the arbiter of what is relevent or irrelevent to the group. In this regard we are venturing into a gray area. For some people, anything to do with Amtrak is fair game for discussion. For someone else, however, only locomotives and rolling stock rosters are what count. And still another person might feel this should be a forum for ranting against Amtrak management or on-board service personnel or whatever the case may be, to the exclusion of everything else. Some people might interpret being moderator as a reason to lecture us about what they think is wrong and what's right. What I'm saying is that it's important that a moderator be truly moderate in their views.

It is common for a completely topical thread to wander "off topic" a bit at times, such as, "You're from Kankakee? Hey, man I got an Uncle in Kankakee!" and so forth. I don't see this as a problem, but, to be sure, others most certainly do. This is what concerns me.

Would threads vanish just because they didn't interest the moderator? In the past I have seen members, including myself, be reminded politely by others that they're going astray. Everyone agreed and simply moved on. I feel placing the decision of what's on and off topic in the hands of a moderator is not something we need or want.

For example, a recent thread focused on "things to do in Manhattan" during an overnight layover between two Amtrak trains. All of the feedback posted was decidedly friendly, although there were easily seen differences in what members thought would be appropriate ways of spending the time. In all fairness, however, this thread had little to do with Amtrak.

Had I been the group's moderator, I would have let this thread stand anyway. Other persons, I believe, would not. They would have directed the participants to seek a travel forum about New York City.

If feedback from the moderator became too heavy handed, the forum could become overly serious. The forum should be neither too liberal nor too conservative. A good moderator would steer the group back as needed to middle groud without upbraiding the forum's members.

Some of our most outspoken and well-informed members would not make good moderators. The overall tone of their posts reveals a consistent impatience with the various foibles of other members. Serious-minded, highly opinionated persons should always be welcomed here, as they provide answers and either spark or settle debates. However, it is likely these people would not be good moderators for just the same reasons.

Serious discussion about Amtrak and its heritage, light-hearted exchanges about traveling by train, and even those controversial debates which sometimes spring up between members all have a place here, as long as the participants express themselves without using profanities or attacking those they disagree with.

When things heat up, we should simply step back and put the matter in perspective. After all, to paraphrase Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca, the problems of two Amtrak nuts don't add up to a hill of beans in this crazy, mixed-up world.

That's why I think it needs to be said that there also needs to be some laughter around here too. Being tough is only one aspect of a moderator's job, if it is one at all.

I hope that, apart from policing for breeches of etiquette, our forum moderator would refrain from removing posts and silencing members they don't understand or feel little kinship with.

Last, I agree with others who say turning the other cheek is the best way to rid ourselves quickly of a belligerent person's involvement in our group. Don't gratify the person who offends with a response.

And Mr. Toy, on behalf of all of those here who support you and welcome your participation, I regret that you were the subject of this person's attack.

As for me, I have made many new friends here. They are people who I otherwise would have most likely never met. Amtrak fans from all over the world visit this forum everyday.

These friendships would not have formed if someone had been telling me what I could post about Amtrak, when I could post it, or whether I could post here at all.

David

[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 12-06-2003).]
 

A moderator, and a freewheeling forum, are not mutually exclusive. This forum simply needs a responsive monitor who will say: ENOUGH, especially when it's obvious to all.

[This message has been edited by zephyr (edited 12-06-2003).]
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dnsommer:
"You're from Kankakee? Hey, man I got an Uncle in Kankakee!" and so forth.

---

Its not me

------------------
LOOK LISTEN LIVE
BEFORE CROSSING RR TRACKS
 

What ever happend to Amtrak's forum moderater?

Shoudnt something have been done about this by now?

------------------
JONATHON D. ORTIZ
 

I think 2-3 moderators are required, quite simply because not everybody can check every day. Some of us go on holidays/vacations! Oh, and I have the advantage of being 5 or more hours ahead of most of you, so I can catch the European/Asian posts earlier.

FWIW my own forum for my software has had one thread removed in 3 years and one warning posted. It's obviously not on the scale of this board, only a few posts a day. As for this board, I would have deleted the offensive one (of course) and posted warnings for off-topic posts like the one about non-railroad movies.

Geoff M.
 

Could a moderator put the question out on the thread so those on the forum could decide if it should be removed? (Not the type of post which provoked this discussion. Anything that blatant would not be in question).

Can new user names be screened in some way to provide tracable information, such a no 2 users with the same e-mail address?

If we can't use the word for a pet known as a *** how could this clown get such an offensive post out?

Can we form vigilante groups and hunt these people down? Just imagine the image of an angry mob of foamers at your door.
 

One more thing: That censorship part of the Board, the part that censors the common name for canines while ignoring more profane and obscene language, needs corrective action.
 

Ray

------------------

 

What about Amtrak?
------------------

Did you know that you can view a suspisious members profile by clicking on the "Who" button.

JONATHON D. ORTIZ

[This message has been edited by JONATHON (edited 12-08-2003).]