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Where would the members of the forum think that new Auto Train routes should be? The requirements would include that the route must be an overnight run, and have less than a half dozen stops along the route (if any, at all).
On an unrelated topic, I say welcome to irishcheiftain as our new moderator. I appluad (sp?) your efforts and willingness to deal with our forum here. Don't let some of the other posters discourage you.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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As I have concurrently noted at another board, I believe any proposed Auto-Train Service routes should not exceed 16 scheduled hours. Very simply, the existing AT, of which I think my 12 rides over the years gives me "veteran" status, is the most "unfanny' LD train out there. Those people riding are not fans, they are not even train lovers (non-fans, but rather people who enjoy the realxed atmosphere of an LD train ride). They are simply looking to have their auto, which usually, when I ride, is a Bennie, Caddie, or Lex, moved to Florida for an extended stay. This is what they are accustomed to driving up North, and they are not about to compromise with the all too often "wind up toy' served up by an auto rental concern.
Therefore, I think any markets Amtrak may be in a position to explore had best be done with an "Auto Train Service" concept of simply attaching auto racks to an existing LD, and accomodating the passengers in line space.
The routes I would have in mind are as follows:
SW Chief Ft Madison-La Junta Albuquerque-San Barnardino
Cal Zephyr Ottumwa-Denver
MPALMER Member # 125
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In the ancient past, when Auto Train was still private, wasn't there a Chicago to Florida route? If I recall correctly it was never as popular as the east coast route.
Also, I believe the AT makes no intermediate stops for passengers, only crew changes.
I like the idea of adding AT cars to existing LD trains, but I would hope switching logistics would be less disruptive than the express car issues of a few years ago.
One thing 'fanny' (fannish?) about the current Auto Train...I do believe it is the longest Amtrak train in revenue service...
dnsommer Member # 2825
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What mainline between the southern midwest region of the USA and Sanford, FL is in the healthiest condition? I'd check that out first. But who knows if a 16-hour timing would be possible even on the heavist, best maintained rails from the Midwest on down.
I wonder if the old Midwest A-T loading facilities still exist. I think it outside Louisville, KY, IIRC.
Seems we should learn a few things from the Chunnel train's car carrier loading methods before we start, too.
David
[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 12-11-2003).]
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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The Chunnel service is a 35 mile trip which takes about as many minutes and thus relies on fast loading and unloading. Passengers drive their own cars onto the train and remain in them for the journey - no seperate passenger accommodation. Lorry drivers do have a seperate lounge though. To be honest, I don't think it's a viable comparison.
Geoff M.
dnsommer Member # 2825
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At the A-T termini, doesn't each car carrier have to be switched onto a stub track and pushed against its own individual car ramp?
If so, the entire car carrying portion of the consist has to be dis-assembled and re-assembled whenever cars are being loaded and unloaded. I've never ridden A-T, so I could be completely wrong about this.
But if A-T loading is in fact done as described above, then isn't it more time consuming, and more in need of a bigger facility to accommodate all the stub tracks and ramps, than the auto train systems in use in Europe?
I watched a video recently about the car carrying operations through the St. Gotthard Tunnel. It looks like a very fast and efficient operation.
Implementing a faster loading system here also would allow multple pick-up and drop-off A-T stations on a route without a lengthy layover at each one.
Dave
[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 12-11-2003).]
trainman1 Member # 1392
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quote:Originally posted by dnsommer: I wonder if the old Midwest A-T loading facilities still exist. I think it outside Louisville, KY, IIRC.
You're correct on the location. In addition to the slow running between Louisville and Florida, apparently, another problem was that people in Chicago/Detroit/wherever already thought of Louisville as "south," so they figured that as long as they were driving to Louisville, they might as well drive all the way to Florida.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Regarding Mr. Sommer's posting, the loading up-ramps at Lorton face North and those at Sanford face South. Therefore to load an auto at Lorton it is driven North and rides on the auto carrier facing rearward. To unload an auto at Sanford the autos that have ridden down from Lorton facing North are now spotted at the ramp facing South which means they are driven off the carrier and down the ramp in a Northward direction. Therefore, no need to wye the carriers. This is what our friends in the maritime industry would call a "Ro-Ro', or "roll on roll off".
Folks, Gene Garfield wasn't dumb; look at all the expertise Amtrak bought for I understand one fixed payment that may have only been $1.00
dnsommer Member # 2825
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The European method showed cars being driven through openings on the sides of the carriers, rather than the ends. No uncoupling was required.
GBN, please explain your reference to expertise for one dollar.
Dave
[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 12-11-2003).]
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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As you likely know, Mr. Somner, the private Auto Train concern ceased operations during May 1981, and filed for Bankruptcy protectkion.
The service was dormant until October 1983 when Amtrak assumed the franchise and contractual realtionships with the two railroads involved. While they paid a market rate for the equipment and facilities acquired from AT Corp, the goodwill, which included the expertise in how to design a terminal to that the most efficient Ro-Ro operation could be used, how train personnel so as to efficiently handle autos, the name, and many other intangibles, it is my understanding the price was $1.00.
What is real fun, by the way, is firing up the "sat nav' that I have in my auto after an AT trip. As the system that last 'took a fix" up in Lorton, is now looking to take a "fix' in Sanford, the map in the system sure knows how to dance around.
V/line Member # 2199
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Hi everyone, this is one one of my infrequent postings. But I often follow with interest, the threads of the postings here. In Australia where I am, we have some very long distance travelling interstate land cruise trains. The longest in car length & duration of travel being the east/west Indian Pacific train. It also carries passengers cars & cars & trailers. Here is a link. http://www.gsr.com.au/indian/ Also a new extended north/south service to commence in 2004, The Ghan, here too is a link. http://www.gsr.com.au/ghan/index.htm These trains are now operated solely by a private company, Great Southern Railroad. They were privatised a few years ago having once been operated by the Commonwealth Railways, the then Federal railway system of Australia. Two intrastate trains, operated by the State Government of Queensland which also carry passengers cars, but also ordinary fare paying passengers are The Queenslander/Sunlander, which travel to the tropical north here is a link. http://qroti.com/longdistance/queenslander/ One more, the Spirit of the Outback, which travels to outback Queensland. http://qroti.com/longdistance/outback/ Thanks for your interest, Mike.
Italiancanuck89 Member # 1873
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What about on the Coast Starlight? I heard that was an idea at one point but never heard anything after that.
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