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Apart from the trans-con routes already in use by Amtrak trains, how many other Class 1 trunk lines that could fit into an expanded Amtrak system actually still exist? Not many, right?
I'm wondering if there aren't any alternatives for expansion, even though expansion isn't on the table for the present.
The Desert Wind and Pioneer routes are probably still in tip-top shape, and the UP's route across Wyoming is also probably in top condition.
What else? What other mainlines are in truly tip-top shape and aren't being used by Amtrak?
CSX Cincinnati-Detroit? CSX River Line (Ex-West Shore LIne along the Hudson River. But there'd be no purpose for Amtrak to use it, I know. It is a line that is still in in good shape though.) NS former Erie line across NY State? (Is this aka the ex-Susquehanna Line?)
Dave
[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 12-11-2003).]
vincen47 Member # 2201
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NS 1st & 2nd districts (Rathole) through Kentucky.
NS ex-Wabash from Detroit. Midwest corridor service originates from Chicago, I guess expansion from another city of origin would be a big leap for Amtrak, i.e. St.Louis/Kansas city - Detroit. Currently, everything operates via Chicago.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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If I may narrow the question a bit, are there any suitable north-south routes between the Coast Starlight and the Texas Eagle? Maybe something through Denver? There's a huge gap in coverage there that should be filled.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
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Mr. Toy, are you suggesting something like a "Front Range Flyer"?
Say, Denver-Colorado-Springs-Albuquerque?
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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The Front Range Flyer, was that a real train? Anyway, something like that, yes, but why limit it to New Mexico and Colorado? I'm sure Montana and Wyoming could use a north-south train to connect with the Empire Builder and Zephyr.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
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There was talk of extending the Heartland Flyer northwards.
Also something like a train from Seattle to Denver... oh, that'll be the Pioneer then! But, extending it southwards like Dave says would be useful.
Geoff M.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Dave S & Mr. Toy - I too have always thought there should be another N-S route through the West, but I would suggest El Paso-Albuquerque-Raton (could use existing BNSF Southwest Chief line for that segment)-Colorado Springs-Denver-Cheyenne-Cody (?-are there tracks there?), then ending up somewhere in N Montana. I don't know the exact route through Montana, since I dont have my Railroad Atrlas with me, but I think such a proposed new route could end up somewhere near Shelby or Glacier Park.
[This message has been edited by RRRICH (edited 12-12-2003).]
rmiller Member # 341
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There is still first class trackage in place from Montana, through Denver, and down to Texas but there is a lot of coal moving in that direction and not many population centers. The "q" used to run a train with coach/sleeper service from Billings to Denver and of course, the Texas Zephyr operated between Denver and Fort Worth/Dallas IIRC. Aside from the Pioneer and Desert Wind services, which I would like to see reinstated, I'd rather see a second train added to current western routes.
rresor Member # 128
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There are LOTS of possible Amtrak routes that aren't being served.
Billings - Cheyenne - Denver - C.Springs - Pueblo, thence either to Albuquerque and El Paso or the other way, down through Amarillo to Dallas and Houston. It would be possible to route the train on tracks not used by coal trains for much of the distance.
How about MSP - Des Moines - KC - Texas? UP just put a lot of money into the "Spine Line".
Washington, DC -- Lynchburg -- Roanoke -- Bristol -- Memphis?
How about we just revive the "Desert Wind" and "Pioneer"?
People, there are about 100,000 route miles belonging to Class I railroads, and Amtrak runs less than 20,000 route miles. Lots of possibilities out there; all it takes is money.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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From a practical point of view, there is really not enough population density to support a north-south route between the west coast and the midwest. I have read that unless you have enough ridership to the end points of a rail route it is going to lose a lot of money. This pretty much rules out anything west of Minneapolis or north of Denver.
There has been talk of a passenger line from St. Paul south to Des Moines and KC. This is of course my wildest dream since I live in St. Paul and my favorite trains are the CZ and SWC. I always have to drive to Iowa or Missouri to catch them. My username is the name of the Rock Island train that followed this route (from the North Star state to the Lone Star state).
It would be wonderful if this route could be incorporated with the Heartland Flyer and allow us snowbirds to go to a variety of warm places. But since rail passenger expansion isn't likely in the near future I fear I will never see this happen.
CG96 Member # 1408
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If it were allowed, I think one thing I'd do would be to increase the frequency of service along routes already in existance. So many of the routes mentioned here will fall victim to the once-per-day-both-directions syndrome that Amtrak has to deal with (for a variety of reasons). While they would all be nice (and, in the case of the MSP-DFL train, able to cover operating costs), They would all be hamstrung by only being around once per day. As long as we are discussing viable train routes, how about installing a codicil about having twice per day service, or more?
dnsommer Member # 2825
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How about a new hub at Denver and another one at Memphis?
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Dave, I just got our local MN Rail Passenger News with an article on hubs. The claim is that if two routes interconnect, the usability increases by nearly the square of the number of stops on both routes.
It goes on to state that Amtrak deliberately schedules trains to miss these connections because it cannot run reliably enough and, as one Amtrak Marketing VP once put it, "couldn't handle any additional traffic".
This quote was in reference to extending the Missouri "Mule" service from KC to Omaha, connecting to the CZ and opening up the KC and St.Louis market to Denver and points west.
Examples given of deliberately missed connections are: -Everett, WA (from Chicago on the EB) to Vancouver by 3 minutes. -The northbound Vermonter misses the eastbound LSL by 10 minutes so Boston-Montreal traffic only works the other way. -The EB from Minneapolis just misses all the westbound LD trains in Chicago, and the reverse is also true.
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