Have you ever been riding on Amtrak and there was a hot box on bored, what happend?, what did Amtrak do about it, and can the locomotrives get a hot box?
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
KA6BGJ Member # 662
posted
Say Jonathon, Can you please tell me what a Hot Box is?
JONATHON Member # 2899
posted
Hot Box: Overheated wheel journal or wheel bearing which usually causes journal packing to burn and smoke. or Overheating of the axle hub due to bearing failure. Metal-on-metal friction generates heat and eventually will melt a 6-inch-diameter steel axle. When the axle bearing messes up, it grinds away at the axle and can catch fire or melt.
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
[This message has been edited by JONATHON (edited 12-11-2003).]
KA6BGJ Member # 662
posted
Thanks for the explaination. I learned something new today. I never even heard of a HOTBOX before. Thanks again Jonathon for the insight.
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
posted
Hot boxes can, and often do, cause derailments. That's why there are so many hot box detectors around.
We did get triggered by one once, on the Lake Shore Ltd. But it was a false reading and we carried on. All they do is check it visually (they know roughly which axle because the detector tells them). If it is okay then they can proceed, otherwise, depending on the severity, they'll carry on to the next siding at reduced speed and leave the offending car on the house track for maintenance to deal with later.
Locos are equally susceptible since they have wheels too. ;-)
Geoff M.
rmiller Member # 341
posted
you wanna hear hot box detectors go crazy, listen to a scanner while riding behind a steam loco! To avoid stopping every few miles, the crew will get permission to ignore them if the detector is reporting a hotbox under the firebox.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
Hotbox was a term that is as old as friction bearings, and as noted it depicts one of these bearings that was lubricated with rags that had been immersed in oil.
Even as late as the "fifties' railroads were ordering freight cars equipped with friction bearings; I think it was the "thirties" for passenger cars.
The term used today is Defective Equipment and that condition is reported to the crew by means of a lineside device known as a Defective Equipment Detector, or DED. Defective Equipment not only includes overheated bearings but also dragging equipment; some Detectors can even report shifted loads.
On an Auto Train ride during Feb 01 (in our waning days of "normalcy"), #53 had a hotbox on an auto carrier; it was mildly hot and the train was able to continue to Sanford as opposed to setting it out. Had the latter occurred, you can be sure MY auto would have been in it.
From listening to the Conductor's radio, the procedure was when the DED notified the crew of the problem, the train would be stopped and an inspection made. If the bearing can be touched with a bare hand, it's safe to proceed. The train would then proceed at restricted speed (30mph) until the next DED was passed. If that passage was "negatoive' i.e. no report, then the train could return to normal speed (70mph). However, if return to normal speed caused a subsequent DED to issue a report, then we start the procedure all over again.
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 12-12-2003).]
rresor Member # 128
posted
Gilbert:
You want to be careful about touching the bearing cap with your hand! Usual procedure is to use a Tempilstick, basically a crayon that melts at 200 degrees F. If it leaves a mark, the bearing is hot.
There are about 50 to 100 hot bearing caused derailments per year in the US, despite detectors. Problem is, a roller bearing can heat up and fail very quickly (unlike a friction bearing, which can stay hot for quite a while before the axle burns off). Solution is probably some sort of on-board monitoring, rather than use of wayside detectors.
And yes, locos can get hotboxes too, but it's relatively uncommon.
espeefoamer Member # 2815
posted
I was on the Empire Builder once,when the lead F40 set off two consecutive detectors,so the unit was set out at the next siding.We continued to the next station with one unit running long end forward.Naturally this was at reduced speed.At the next station,we picked up a BN SD40-2.This unit led all the way to Seattle.
------------------ Trust Jesus,Ride Amtrak.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
posted
This has been fascinating. I've often read the term hotbox before, but I didn'tknow what it was. Thanks for the education.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
posted
Rresor, On my last trip to Fullerton, I seen an Amtrak Surflinner comming from L.A. and its locomotive was smoking from undernieth.
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
mrhall53 Member # 1580
posted
We were on the CZ, eastbound, and the train stopped in the middle of Iowa. We were there for about 15 minutes. We asked, and an attendant told us that a detector had reported a hotbox, but also had reported too many axles. So the crew got out and checked on the number of axles before we proceeded.
Southwest Chief Member # 1227
posted
quote:Originally posted by JONATHON: Rresor, On my last trip to Fullerton, I seen an Amtrak Surflinner comming from L.A. and its locomotive was smoking from undernieth.
Could be the Surfliner that had a hotbox that I heard on my scanner a few weeks ago. The engineer radioed the dispatcher about it and the train stopped for a while to check it out. Never did find out what happened as the train got too far away for my scanner to pick it up anymore.
MPALMER Member # 125
posted
A year ago I was on the westbound Capitol Ltd approaching MartinsburgWV, when the DED's "voice" said there was a hotbox. I don't know what inspection the crew made, but they did not stay that long at the stop and the train seemed to proceed on without any incident.
Those with scanners or near the conductors with radios can hear the DED "voice" as train passes by indicate track #, axle #s, and hopefully the words "No Defects".
MP
espeefoamer Member # 2815
posted
I was on the Carolinian once,when we passed a detector that reported too FEW axles!WE allegedly had 23 axles.The train did not stop to investigate.
------------------ Trust Jesus,Ride Amtrak.
[This message has been edited by espeefoamer (edited 12-15-2003).]
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
posted
I've heard numerous HABDs give too many axles and the train has never stopped. I've only heard one comment from the engineer who said words to the effect of "Looks like we've picked up another wagon".
Never heard one give too few, but I'd imagine that was more important as it might have meant something dropping off the rear (perhaps with isolated brakes). Perhaps the engineers looked out the window and could still see their last car?
Geoff M.
Amtrak207 Member # 1307
posted
Well this is new, looks like we taught Mr. Toy something.
Sorry Mr. T- it's just so rare!
------------------ F40PH #757099-8 March 29, 1976-August 17, 2001 Best of the best, requisecat in pacis
P42DC #53063 Now only around 2.4 million miles to go
UncleBuck44 Member # 2049
posted
I didnt know what it was either until I read this. Ive heard it but now I know
posted