posted
Hi, folks. I am from South Korea. We think privatization of our national railroad. They say that it is good policy to privatize national railroad. But I think there can be good things and bad things. How do you think about it? I think some members of this forum have knowledge of privatization process of some countries' railroad, such as UK and Mexico. Please share your knowledge with us.
[This message has been edited by Lee, Wonyoung (edited 02-24-2004).]
panamaclipper Member # 3058
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The U.K. has had a nightmare since they busted up their rail system and privatized. Many accidents with loss of life and the companies that bought it are going broke. Even the govt. is admitting that things have not worked out.
George Harris Member # 2077
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If my recent two days there were at all typical, I would say, "Don't mess with success." I rode Seoul to Daejon (sorry if I miss the spelling, my map is not here) and back. Good trains, clean, on time. 166 km, six stops down in two hours flat, three stops back in 1h40m. (For those that do not know, diesel operated.) New Seoul station is beautiful. From the viewpoint of the user, the JR privatization seems to be working, that of BR does not. The difference between the various JR successor private companies is all but invisible to the (foreign) user, except JR Hokkaido which seems to have more useful information to the foreigner.
The Seoul subway is also great. Wish they would discover escalators, though.
Can we send you a large delegation of US congresspeople to see how a properly funded and operated rail passenger service works?
To anyone else that plans to go to Korea, get the schedule book. The names for the major stations are duplicated in the Roman alphabet. I bought mine in the convenience store in the Seoul station.
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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Sorry GH, but I'm going to have to disagree with you *again*! It's not personal, honest.
There are parts of the UK privatisation that haven't work well. But there are a whole load of other parts which have. Take for example, trains. In the 70s, 80s, and early 90s barely any new trains were ordered. Since privatisation we've had literally hundreds of brand new trains. Network Rail can't approve them for use fast enough, there are so many of them.
Competition: Not as much as I would like, since operator A can't decide to directly compete with operator B except on limited terms. But many fares have gone down where there is such competition.
Frequency: The cross country route which I use most often has gone from a non-clock-face roughly hourly service with clapped out rolling stock to half hourly at regular intervals with brand new trains. Another service has gone from 6x a week to 33x a week. Many Sunday services have been introduced. None that I know of have been reduced or withdrawn. Some lines have been reopened for service.
Which companies are going broke? Can you be more specific, as I'm not aware of any.
"Many accidents with loss of life". Hatfield (broken rail, poor maintenance), Great Heck (car driver encroached on tracks), Ladbroke Grove (signal passed at danger), and Southall (signal passed at danger). Therefore just one which could extremely loosely be related to privatisation.
The two things which are bad are: Government reorganising *again*, as if they haven't meddled enough already; and HSE (Health & Safety Executive) which are more concerned with the "open door" button being underneath the "close door" button rather than more important things.
TRINS magazine, of a couple of months ago, had a short article, basically calling UK privatisation "underrated" (ie it's better than many people think).
Geoff M.
[This message has been edited by geoffm (edited 02-25-2004).]
George Harris Member # 2077
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GeoffM:
You seem to have crossed up some of what panamaclipper said with some of what I said.
The following belongs to panamaclipper not me. "The U.K. has had a nightmare since they busted up their rail system and privatized. Many accidents with loss of life and the companies that bought it are going broke." If you are going after me, at least do it for what I said not for what someone else said. And, you do seem to be taking things way too personally.
My negative impression of the BR privitization is based primarily on what I hear from some British collegues and read in the Railway Gazette. Another thing I hear, the fares are very high.
If you would put your email on here, or simply email me, I would be happy to try to engage in a civil discussion without cluttering up the thread.
As to the Safety and Eealth Executive, some of their guys could change places with some on the NTSB people writing recommendations for railroad safety and chances are, neither side would notice. They do not seem to be living in a real world.
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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I was actually replying to both of your comments. I could have been clearer, I admit. As I said before, this is not a personal attack - you just happen to have opposite opinions to me!
I read the Gazette as well but you have to bear in mind I actually travel on UK trains frequently and also work in the railway industry, mainly signalling. Experience counts more than media opinions. Remember also that colleagues may not always paint a wonderful picture - it's far easier to be negative than to be positive.
Fares are not abnormally high relative to the cost of living in the UK. American travel is extremely cheap - and, of course, subsidised whereas the UK is less so since privatisation - indeed subsidies to many train operating companies decrease each year (reminds me of Amtrak and self-sufficiency but this actually seems to work for many lines).
posted
Hi guys, Just my two cents worth: I've ridden a few trains in GB since privatization and honestly thought everything was great. Nice cars (a little crowded!), frequent trains, on time, and as Geoff says, not unusually expensive for Britain (where everything seems outlandishly priced). I wish the London to Glasgow train had some sort of lounge car or observation car. I dislike the little 'snackbar' cars on European trains. Geoff, do you know if there are trains Lon-GLA that have the lounge cars? Maybe the USA and the Brits ought to do it like the Canadians. Best trains that I've ever ridden on (thought haven't been in Asia). Guess that was more like ten cents
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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Well, there is a buffet car as standard on all long distance trains, which has a kitchen/counter at one end and table seating at the other - similar to an Amtrak single level diner. No lounge car like Superliner lounge cars. The brand new Pendolinos have a small "shop" onboard - hot and cold food and drinks, CDs, magazines, etc. The tilting trains will travel at 125mph, supposedly 140mph but we'll wait and see on that part.
There is a sleeper service that does run with a lounge car. Because Glasgow is only 400 miles from London, it has to run at a sedate 80mph with long stops during the night in order to arrive at a reasonable hour!
Geoff M.
[This message has been edited by geoffm (edited 02-25-2004).]
Lee, Wonyoung Member # 2464
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Hi, George Harris
Thank you for your reply for my writing. I appreciated for your good comment about our railroad. I hope you had a pleasant trip.
The Korean national railroad has huge subsidies from government. We have big losses from operationg almost every year. That is the reason we are thinking of privatization. But I doubt the privatization will make profit.
We will open high speed train this first of April. It took almost ten years to construct the railroad. We will run TGV type trains. The maximum speed is 300km/h. We have a contract with SNCF(France company) and imported their skills.
Harris, If you want to visit our company we will welcome you. We want to know your freight train operation more. We plan to increase more freight trains on our conventional railroads. I visited the Kansas city southern railroad company with help of some members of this forum last year.
But would you email to me first? My email adress is wonyoung200us@yahoo.com.
[This message has been edited by Lee, Wonyoung (edited 02-25-2004).]
[This message has been edited by Lee, Wonyoung (edited 02-25-2004).]
rresor Member # 128
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Here's the bottom line about British privatization, as far as I'm concerned:
# of passengers in 2003, highest since 1961
Passenger miles in 2003, highest since 1948
Can Amtrak say either of those things?
If you measure success by the demand for service, it looks to me like British privatization has worked very well indeed.
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