There is a whole lotta debate over the idea of extending the surfliner to downtown San Francisco. I have seen the station and its close to town. This sounds like a good idea even though another set of tracks will probably need to be laid down past San Luis Obispo. What does everyone think about this?
Posted by JONATHON (Member # 2899) on :
Well, if that happend, then The Coast Starlight would lose some service (hardly) since it dosnt go directly through San Francisco, But its a good Idea over all!
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
This has been under discussion for several years - the train was provisionally going to be called the "Coast Daylight" and would have set off from both LA and SF at around 7.00am. I remember seeing the provisional timetable on a website, possibly somewhere on Trainweb. It would have been a standard Surfliner unit and was planned to make additional stops at several stations that the Starlight goes straight through eg, Grover Beach, which is why I remember it so well - I was in Grover Beach in May 2002 and then it was hoped to start up in "18 months to 2 years". The Amtrak funding crisis probably put paid to it but I did read within the last month that the Surfliners have done so well that an additional train is planned on the route - whether this will just be San Diego to LA or whether it will go further north I don't know, but a through service from LA to SF shouldn't cause too many logistical problems, so who knows?
Posted by Charles Reuben (Member # 2263) on :
This is an excellent idea, much more sensible than the high speed rail concept that has been floated in California lately.
For those of you who have not ridden on the relatively brand new Surfliner, it is sort of a like a Superliner, except it has ergonomic seats, stairways that climb like a stairway ought to climb, room for bikes and huge, sensible bathrooms that are a pleasure to use.
The Surfliner is *proven* technology that would pose no risk to California's already shakey economy.
It would nicely complement the Coast Starlight and at least give people who generally fly a glimpse of how comfortable a train ride can be. It might also make people reexamine their need for speed vs. a sensible, low cost rail system.
Posted by Superchief (Member # 3112) on :
You guys are right on! The pacific surfliner is one of the few if only route that makes money for amtrak instead of losing it. The trip from san diego is only slightly shorter than the trip to san fran. were not talking about to Jack London Square but to a few blocks south of Pac Bell Park. The coast starlight is a luxury train and not a cheap trip to take. Besides, san fran is a way cool place to go
Posted by Charles Reuben (Member # 2263) on :
Actually, the distance between LA and San Francisco is three times the distance between LA and San Diego.
As far as the Coast Starlight being a luxury train, I don't know if I'd go that far. Basically it's an ol' Superliner from the 70's. They may have swapped out some avocado sinks for fake granite, but it's the same ol', decrepit Superliner: Held together with duct tape and paper clips.
If you shop around on e-bay or the rail sales, you can find a very low price on the Coast Starlight.
To me Surfliner spells luxury. Throw on a dining car and you've got it made.
[This message has been edited by Chucky (edited 03-10-2004).]
Posted by Superchief (Member # 3112) on :
woops the distance is close enough...
Posted by Charles Reuben (Member # 2263) on :
Maybe as the crow flies. That's 127 miles vs. 387 miles. Unless you straighten out all those curves and hills, you're talking about significance in terms of time.
Posted by pismobum (Member # 2628) on :
Actually, the 'beginning' of the coast daylight was a few months ago when they added a new thruway bus from Santa Barbara to San Franciso that connected to surfliners in Santa Barbara. Next step, scheduled "soon" is a new train (horizons and the great dome) that will leave LA at 7am and go as far as SLO, then return to LA. Train was set to start this April, but "scheduling difficulties with Metrolink commutes" has delayed it until at least this summer. Extension of that schedule from SLO to the bay area would then make that proposed schedule happen. Don't look for it to be "Surfliners" - there are not enough to even fill the existing schedules, and no more are on order.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Surfliners with a nice full-service diner and a lounge car would be a great way to get to SFO. I'm old enough to remember riding the SP Coast Daylight from Glendale right into the Third and Townsend station in the City.
I believe at the height of operations there were two Daylights (Morning and Noon) in each direction and the San Joaquin Daylight that had a ferry connection in Oakland to San Francisco. At night there were the Lark and the Owl.
I wonder if the Surfliner cars would clear the tunnels going into the city. I remember several from the old days. Have these been bypassed or improved? I know that the peninsula commuters use double-deck cars but I don't think they are as tall as the Superliners or Surfliners.
Watched the northbound Starlight load and leave SBA today when I was there getting a ticket for a quick SBA/LAX/SBA roundtrip tomorrow. Lots of people boarding, especially in Coach. The window to the galley was open in the dining car and lunch smelled great!
Frank in Sunny SBA.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
The Coast Daylight was scheduled to start up in October 2001, but the state energy crisis stole the funding away. Then came 9/11, the downturn in the whole economy, and now, the budget mess. The plans are still on the books, however, just awaiting funding.
At one time there was discussion about creating an overnight train LA to Oakland by an extension of the CZ. It would require one extra trainset only, as instead of it spending the night in Oakland, it would spend the day in Los Angeles. This would seem like the place to start as it covers a completely unserved time frame and makes a convenient connection to LA for all points on the CZ route west of Illinois.
Given something like a 9:00pm departure and 8:30am arrival on both ends, it would leave almost 4 hours between the scheduled CZ arrival and the departure to LA, which should take out a lot of the CZ delays. It leaves about an hour between overnight arrival and CZ departure, again should be enough to cover normal events.
At one point the California Rail Plan described quite a bit of work for the coast line, mostly badly needed, since little beyond chewing gum and string work has been done on this line for years.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Does anyone remember the "Spirit of California" AMTRAK train which was tried out back in the 80's? I believe that was an overnight train OKJ-LAX, wasn't it? But the ridership was much lower than expected, if I recall, so the service was canned.
But that was then, this is now -- maybe the market has improved now?
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Of course, I would love to see an OKJ-SAC-BFD-LAX train which goes through Tehachapi Pass, but I believe that is absolutely out of the question now due to freight traffic on that route (not to mention the extra time it would take)......
Posted by M190 (Member # 3009) on :
Rrrrich, Amtrak wants to do just that. There was a story in the local paper here in Bake-O a few months ago talking about how the big A wanted an overnight train into LAX from the valley. UP spokesman was quoted as saying it's a "non-starter", citing just what you said, traffic. And just my luck that after 20 years of wishing I finally get a train over Tehachapi, and it runs at night!
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Yes, I remember hearing about the Spirit of California, hawever at the time I had very little tinme to keep up with anything beyond necessities. I though its death had more to do with politics than ridership.
The Spirit ran the Coast Line. Although I did not say, and btw the idea is not original with me, that was also the thought for the extended CZ.
AS for the UP response concerning the overnight via Tehachapi, what else could you expect from UP? It is essentially an expression of company policy.
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chucky: [B]As far as the Coast Starlight being a luxury train, I don't know if I'd go that far. Basically it's an ol' Superliner from the 70's. They may have swapped out some avocado sinks for fake granite, but it's the same ol', decrepit Superliner: Held together with duct tape and paper clips.
I thought the Coast Starlight (like the Auto train) was almost exclusively a Superliner II train. These cars date from 1994, and although they are getting shabby, are still far and above better than any original unrefurbished Superliner I. (And they never had the avacado to begin with)
I wish other trains, like the Chief, received half the II's that are reserved for the Starlate. Always thought those night vestibule lights were wasted if not used on the Chief, which has some of the most busy night stops of any long distance train.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
UP won't even cooperate with Amtrak when it comes to current operations. Examples: The Starlate and The Slugset (Very) Limited. You DO know what UP stands for don't you? Utterly Pathetic! The very initials UP reflect the companies attitude towards Amtrak: UP yours. Forget ANY pipedreams of any extra trains up the coast from LAX to SF any time soon. They can't even keep the Starlate on time!
P.S Drastic track maintenance would have to be done in Salinas Valley! It's got to be the worst stretch of JOINTED track in the whole d#mn Amtrak system.
Patrick.
Posted by CoastStarlight99 (Member # 2734) on :
The starlight is very slow and I wouldnt liek it if the surfliner went there. Obviously the surflienrs main business is from San Diego to Los Angeles and every 2 hours northobund all the way to santa barbara. I dont know about San Fran. Even the starlgiht only goes to Emmeryville.
You can not have faster trains without faster track. The equipment is the small part of the equation.
The capitols were made possible by a huge investment in track. Likewise for the San Diego service growth.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
There was an article in a recent issue of TRAINS magazine, which did indicate that Union Pacific might be the most inhospitable in regard to Amtrak. That is a problem here in Calif. I travel, at least once a year, on the Coast Startlight out of San Jose, CA, headed north. I can't remember, but I think that Train #14 used to leave LA around 8-9 in the morning, possibly earlier. It now leaves around 10:15 AM, and with all the delays (by UP?) it gets into San Jose at 8:40 PM..if it isn't late (and it frequently is). I used to be able to go to the dining car upon boarding in San Jose, but now Amtrak says I can't because it's too late for the dining car (I guess all you can do is get a hot-*** in the snack car and I sure hope it doesn't come from a mad cow). I usually get sleeper accomodations, so it seems I am getting cheated out of a meal as meals are part of the sleeper package. When the Starlight departed LA at the earlier time, years ago, it used to get into San Jose around 7PM..plenty of time to have dinner. I don't understand why they can't leave earlier. Train #14 now gets into Portland around 4 PM and into Seattle around 8:45 or 9 PM (if it isn't late). Why can't they depart LA much earlier..say 7 AM. I remember the train #14 used to arrive in Seattle just in time for dinner..not much later than 6PM. I would guess most passengers are traveling to Oregon or Washington and would appreciate a much earlier arrival. RH
[This message has been edited by yukon11 (edited 03-14-2004).]
[This message has been edited by yukon11 (edited 03-15-2004).]