RAILforum: Southwest Chief reroute off Raton Pass?

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Posted by JoelK (Member # 3345) on :

In a few snippets of news, I've heard that the Southwest Chief might possibly be routed off Raton Pass permanently due to BNSF requiring quite a bit of money to keep it at passenger train speeds, or perhaps to even sell that route off. Can anyone fill me in with more details if they are known, and when this might take effect?.
I live in Colorado Springs and have often taken the Thuway bus to Raton where I connect with #3. I wonder if Amtrak would still run a Denver/COS/Pueblo bus, perhaps all the way to ALB?.

Posted by Brian Keefer (Member # 2916) on :

I read something about this too in Amtrak's publication to congress. It was on their web site under news and was part of a larger document discussing a long range rail plan for the country. A segment of line that goes over the Raton pass is listed as being in danger of abandonment or sale to a short line. There was a proposed reroute through the Oklahoma panhandle.

Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :

This proposal is not new.

The Chief would be routed same as was the San Francisco Chief that of course died on A-Day.

But lest we forget, there is mighty, MIGHTY loyal customer up at Raton - the Boy Scouts of America. They really try to use Amtrak to the fullest extent possible - and the Scouts are quite willing to ride Coach.

This reminds me of two years ago, when a Scoutmaster (high powered attorney in real life) was going to do "his time" out there at Philmont, his two sons were also going. Since this guy, be assured, could have chartered a private car, as in PV, for the trip out there, I suggested Sleeper. The response I got was "if it's good enough for the Scouts, then it's good enough for me".

The kids enjoyed the train ride; he "accepted" it (guess just part of the "roughing it" experience).

Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :

The Raton-Denver bus came about when the Desert Wind through SLC to LA was discontinued. I would hope Amtrak would not want to abandon the Denver to LA folks if they reroute the SWC, along with Santa Fe and the aforementioned Boy Scout business.

I have heard of this reroute proposal talked about for several years now. One of the stranger aspects of it: -they might back into ABQ from Belen because there is no place to turn the train at ABQ. It would be a terrible thing to abandon ABQ altogether, but when you see the "depot" you can't help but wonder if they question the future of train service there. I would really miss all the vendors who meet the train in ABQ and the long fresh air stop in La Junta.

The only good thing about it might be a faster trip when the mountains are bypassed, but a 2-3 hour round-trip from the mainline in Belen into ABQ might cancel that out anyway. The worst tragedy would be the beautiful New Mexico scenery that would be missed.

Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TwinStarRocket:

I have heard of this reroute proposal talked about for several years now. One of the stranger aspects of it: -they might back into ABQ from Belen because there is no place to turn the train at ABQ. It would be a terrible thing to abandon ABQ altogether, but when you see the "depot" you can't help but wonder if they question the future of train service there.

I've disembarked at Albuquerque a couple of times. When I was last there in July 2002 the agent told me there were plans to build a new station much the size of the old one which burned a decade ago to serve Amtrak and Greyhound. The new station was to match the new city transit station next door but was, of course, on hold due to tough economic times.

I would imagaine that the new station is probably still on hold.

------------------
David Pressley

Posted by RRCHINA (Member # 1514) on :

Another consideration that is now more apparent than it was a few years ago when this idea was brought forward is: with the substantial increase in freight business is there sufficient capacity on the southern route for the SWC to operate without affecting the significant number of freight trains. West from Belen there is double track with CTC and BNSF appears to be handling the SWC efficiently, but those conditions are not present east of Belen.

Also, when BNSF has operating disruptions on the southern route becase of weather, derailments or other nonpredictable events
they route several of the hotshot freights
via the northern route. It would seem that they will need this backup alternative more than ever, but the track does not have to be maintained to AMTRAK operating criteria for this to be available for detour service.

Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :

Mr RRChina,

Please go take a look at the grades from Garden City, KS-Raton-Las Vegas, NM.

There's a REASON AT&SF built the Belen cutoff. There's a REASON AT&SF, even before the merger, had pretty well drawn down traffic on original Raton route. There's a REASON semaphores remained on Raton into the millenium (there were still a few as late as 2001).

I rather suspect BNSF would sell off Raton and say goodbye without a single tear being shed in their corporate HQ.

John

------------------
The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations

Posted by RRCHINA (Member # 1514) on :

PullmanCo, Sorry but I fail to see your point. I am very familiar with the reasons the southern route (Belen Cutoff, Ca. 1908)
was built and am quite familiar with the operating conditions, including grades, of the northern route. There are still blades between Wagon Mound and Colmor but the remainder from La Junta to Albuq. has been converted to modern searchlight signals in the past 4-5 years.

We can suspect or speculate all we wish but decisions of this magnitude involve many, many factors and one that has become very much more prominent recently, and it still
growing, is the increased demand for intermodal service. See the latest TRAINS for statistical info about the amount between LA and CHI.

You may not have noticed, but UP has a big problem with this growth and is now turning away business as reported in several sources.

Perhaps you are focused solely on passenger
service and if so I suggest that you learn more about the whole of modern RR's and their significance to our nations economy.
My comments are not intended to offend and I hope they do not. I would be available to exchange private emails with you if that would be your desire, or will continue this type of communication so that others may share our discussions.

Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :

No,

I'm not single-focused passenger. One of my IRA holdings currently is a Fortune 500 railroad.

If I held BNSF at the moment, I would rather see them triple or quadruple-track the Belen cutoff rather than continue the Raton run. It would cost less to add rail, cost less to operate, and cost less to maintain over the long haul.