The reason for the question: If the schedule it replaced left Buffalo at 6:30 AM or so, then the train is actually directly descended from the original Lake Shore Limited. That train, New York Central #22, was started in November of 1897 as a 24 hour all Wagner sleeping car limited. By the late 1940's, the train was running 17 hour eastbound and 19 hr westbound schedules and carrying transcontinental sleepers from Los Angeles and the Bay Area and was also running a Boston Section. With the massive reorganization of Water Level Route schedules that occurred in October, 1956 with the release of the Travel-Tailored Time Table, the train received the Pacemaker's name, number (#2), and some of its deluxe coach services, but still kept essentially the same sleeping car lines and stops that it had previously, though its schedule, which had crept up to 19 hours, was again reduced to 17. The Pacemaker itself had been combined with the Commodore Vanderbilt in July of 1956, but, because of a 17 car train length limit, not all of the Pacemaker's equipment could be accommodated on the Commodore when the business sleeper travel picked up again in the fall, hence the split of former Pacemaker services between the Commodore and the Lake Shore in the fall of 1956.

By the fall of 1957, as a result of continued dropping of sleeping car patronage and the discontinuation of a number of the transcontinental sleepers, the Commodore was able to accommodate all of the former Pacemaker business, so that the deluxe coach service was dropped from the former Lake Shore, although it continued to use the Pacemaker's name and number. However, its schedule gradually crept back up to 19 hours.

In April of 1961, the train was combined with the Chicago-Boston New England States between Chicago and Cleveland. In a few years this combination would be Chicago to Buffalo, running on the earlier New England States schedule, with a 1 hour 16 minute station stop in Buffalo allowing the train to keep its old schedule between Buffalo and New York City.

With the April 24, 1966, timetable change, the former Lake Shore became a Buffalo-New York City-only train and its Buffalo departure was moved to 5:25 AM from 4:34 AM. It still retained the Pacemaker name and number 2. However, with the next timetable change, October 30, 1966, it became nameless and received a new number, 98, with the same Buffalo departure time but a 10 minute tightening of the schedule. With the next timetable, April 30, 1967, to accommodate daylight savings time, the departure was moved up 50 minutes to 4:35 AM EST. In November of 1967, the departure was moved back to 5:02 AM.

With the December 3, 1967, timetable reorganization, the train, now part of the "Empire Service" schedule was renumbered to 70 and the departure was moved back to 6:30 AM. As train 70, the former Lake Shore survived into Amtrak.

Unfortunately, my wife packed away all of my Amtrak timetables, so I have been unable, thru my own research, to answer the question as to whether Amtrak's Lake Shore replaced former train 22 then 2 then 98 then 70. I was hoping someone on this list had Amtrak timetables from around 1975 or 76 that could answer this question, because, if the answer is yes, then Amtrak's eastbound Lake Shore IS the original Lake Shore.

sjl

I haven't looked at an old Amtrak timetable for years, and it's amusing to see The Broadway Limited, The National Limited, The James Whitcomb Riley, The Mountaineer, The Floridian, The North Coast Hiawatha as well as many other disappeared train names (and routes).

[This message has been edited by royaltrain (edited 07-11-2004).]
 

Is that 6:30 AM Buffalo Departure still on the schedule, and what is the train number? If so, that is the original New York Central Lake Shore.

To quote Dr. Smith on Lost in Space: "So near yet so far".

sjl
 

Effective November 1975, the Lake Shore was reinstated and has become (I would say by default) the premier NY-Chicago service.

BTW, glad to see you back at a message board again, Dr. Levine.

Digging out my October 26, 1958 NYC "thousand and one", or Form 1001 - System Timetable, it would appear that EB #48 today is roundly on the schedule of NYC #2, the Pacemaker. WB #49 seems to resemble the through Sleeper of 15-27, Ohio State Limited to NE States switched at Buffalo.

[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 07-11-2004).]
 

Actually, in October of 1958, though the eastbound train had the name and number of the Pacemaker, the schedule is that of the original Lake Shore.

In my April 24, 1955, Form 1001 New York Central System timetable, Eastbound Lake Shore Limited # 22 departed La Salle Street Station at 6:30 PM, arriving Grand Central at 1:05 PM. Its Boston section arrived South Station at 3:15 PM. Compare this with the current number 48's departure of 7:20 PM with NYC arrival at 3:25 PM and Boston arrival at 6:20 PM. Also, compare it with the Fall/Winter 1998 schedule of a 7:30 PM Chicago departure, a 2:59 PM New York arrival, and a 6:05 PM Boston arrival.

In the fall of 1998, #49 departed New York City at 6:40 PM, arriving Chicago at 12:45 PM. The April, 1955, Lake Shore, NYC #19, departed NYC at 6:30 PM (in combination with # 11, the St. Louis-bound Southwestern Limited), arriving Chicago at 12:45 PM. The westbound Lake Shore's Boston cars were forwarded to it by the Boston section of the Southwestern. (Currently, #49 leaves GCT much earlier at 2:50 PM, which corresponds more original NYC #1 the Pacemaker's departure of 3:00 PM. In February of 1949, the Pacemaker lost its all coach status through combination with the Advance Commodore Vanderbilt and, until April, 1955, the latter train retained a separate column in the timetable, albeit with the same times as the Pacemaker.)

So basically, Amtrak's Lake Shore Limited is functionally a similar train to the New York Central's Lake Shore Limited. I would be appreciative if someone could look at a November, 1975, Amtrak timetable to see the departure and arrival times of both 48 and 49. It sounds like they may have had timetables commensurate with the pre-Amtrak Century/New England States/Wolverine remnant and it was not until later that the schedules changed to roughly match the original Lake Shore's schedules, with replacement of the 6 AM Eastbound Buffalo-GCT schedule that was the remnant of the NYC's Lake Shore. This relationship would thus be analogous to the relationship of Amtrak's current California Zephyr (of City of San Francisco and Denver Zephyr descent) to the original CZ, which, as the Denver to Salt Lake Rio Grande Zephyr, was discontinued in the spring of 1983.

Which brings up an interesting idea. Having now missed the 100th birthday of the Lake Shore in 1997, should Amtrak consider a 110th Birthday celebration in 2007?

sjl

P.S. If you look at the summer, 1957, NYC timetable, you will see that the NYC-CHI sleeper running on trains 15-27 is all that is left of the train #1, the Pacemaker (actually the Advance Commodore Vanderbilt).

From the November 30, 1975 TT, #49 Lake Shore departed GCT 615PM, arrived CUS 240PM. #48 departed CUS 215PM arrived GCT 1215PM.
 

Appreciative.

Looks like the Westbound Lake Shore originally was back on its old schedule prior to July of 1956, when it was cut back to Cleveland.

Actually, both schedules appear to have recapitulated the last New York/Boston-Cleveland-Chicago schedules of Penn Central's 61-427-27-17 and 28-14-62-428, the ex-New England States/Century/Wolverine.

When was #48 changed to the suppertime Chicago departure with the early afternoon New York City arrival?

sjl

 

Long live the Lake Shore.

sjl