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What was First Class like in the "old days"? I've read that it bears little resemblance to Amtrak's idea of first class. I've made a few trips in first class, the first one being about 3 years ago. My first train ride ever was about 20 years ago, so those are my reference points.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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From one who has "been there done that" (actively riding during "the sixties").
For example, the Super Chief Pleasure dome Lounge was assigned two attendants; one to tend the bar (snacks? well we have a diner for those)and the other to come to you and offer service.
Drinks were served in glassware, cardboard boxes, what were they?
In the Diner, where jackets and even ties were 'expected" (I wasn't about to "test" the issue, nor was anyone else ). there was one waiter for each row of table or a maximum of six diners. While a request for a party of two would usually be honored, single diners were doubled up. However, if one really wanted a private party, that is what the Torquoise Room was for. There was also a similar room on the UP Dome Diners.
In short, there simply were so many more people around to serve you than on Amtrak.
rresor Member # 128
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Since I turned 18 in 1970, my memories of the 1960s are somewhat more limited than Mr. Norman's. However, I made annual trips from New York to Florida with my family, and we always traveled "Pullman" (which was what first class was called then).
The better ACL and SAL trains always carried two diners, one for coach passengers and the other for Pullman, and two lounges as well. ACL ran the sleepers on the rear, SAL on the front; in either case, a diner divided the two classes and coach passengers were prevented from wandering into the Pullmans.
The Pullman diner had white tablecloths, silver, china, and crystal. I ate my first grilled shad roe in a Seaboard diner in the spring of 1967, and my first pompano stuffed with shrimp (and cooked in a parchment bag) on the Florida Special in 1970.
My mother liked to have breakfast in our rooms (we normally had two bedrooms en suite), so the porter would set up the folding table and a waiter would bring our food from the dining car, on a tray covered with a tablecloth.
Whether we ate in the room or went to the diner for breakfast, there were always fresh baked muffins and grits available (this is one tradition that Amtrak did continue, for more than a decade).
Shoes put in the shoe locker were actually shined by the porter.
In those days Pullman meant first class, and service was first class. Nothing Amtrak has ever offered comes anywhere close.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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I was a youth pre-Amtrak, but First Class meant:
A full dome lounge car for the Pullman pasengers. The coach passengers had access to the dome in the coach, and had access to a cafe-lounge car for their food.
A full dining car. Unlike Mr Norman, UP used a standard of 48 seater cars going forward from 1949. Menus were far more customized than the 2 or three National menu sets now.
More comfortable sleeping accommodations. Where Amtrak standard rooms have a 2-3 inch cushion and then a 1-2 inch matt for a berth, Pullman sections had a full spring-cushioned seat, then a full mattress.
More comfortable sleeping accommodations again. Berths were at least twin sized, both upper and lower, and there was plenty of headroom for both.
Lower patron to Porter ratio. On a UP 6 bedroom, 6 roomette, 4 DBR car, the ratio was 26:1. On a 10 roomette 6DBR car, the ratio was 22:1. Amtrak Superliners have a 42:1 ratio.
Downsides?
No free coffee and juices. Everything came from the lounge. OTOH, the Porter would gladly get it, and prices were no different than getting it at the local shop.
Meals weren't included in the fare ... OTOH, we've determined here and elsewhere, in the great tradition of no free lunch, that the cost of an Amtrak First Class meal is pre-priced into the fare.
------------------ The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations
TBlack Member # 181
posted The first time I ever saw a finger bowl was in the diner of the Empire Builder in the late '40s. Also they used to supply corn on the cob with the little silver handles stuck in the ends so as not to soil your fingers! I think there were more options of room/compartment arrangements. You don't see drawing rooms anymore, but I remember one trip when we had that space. And, believe it or not, I think the current LSL is in better shape that the 1940-1950 version.
panamaclipper Member # 3058
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I remember riding coach with my grandmother on the ATSF Texas chief. We were allowed to ride free on her company pass. Along with the diner - where we would go for lunch - there was always an attendant who wheeled a cart through coach selling drinks, candy, newspapers, sandwiches, etc. I always figured it must have been a theft issue that killed those carts in Amtrak days. The diner was all white table cloths and silver still in the 1960s. I remember those Indian pattern plates they used on lunch service.
stlboomer Member # 2028
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Sometine in the early 60s my Mom and I rode the AT&SF from Galesburg to Wichita. I recall the vending cart and also a lunchcounter car. But my most vivid memory is of the white-jacketed coach attendants - one per car. Mom was wearing a hat, and probably gloves, too. When we got settled in our seats the attendant brought her a big white paper bag with the AT&SF logo on it. She took off her hat, put it in the bag, and the attendant put it in the luggage rack overhead. Now that's attention to detail! Do you suppose this was a holdover from the days of steam and cinders?
Later on I got in the habit of riding the Super Chief home from school in Chicago. The extra fare for a roomette was a couple of dollars and the food, drink and company were exceptional. The remember the dining car steward wore striped trousers and the bar stocked Mumm's White Star Champagne. As GBN mentioned, when you took a seat in the lounge car a waiter would appear to take your order. Even a humble Coke was served "by the book." In the dining car I encountered my first dry-aged steak - a rare treat anywhere these days.
I was on the westbound Super Chief on A-Day for one last fling. There were quite a few folks on board with the same idea, and a group of us sat up late in the lounge, talking passenger trains.
Sic transit..
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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The only pre-Amtrak train I rode was when I was barely 3, so I was not much of a judge of service.
Last month my mother, who is not a regular Amtrak rider, booked a standard bedroom and complained about the cost. She said that in her day, when she traveled cross-country by train a few times, she always had the equivalent of an Amtrak deluxe room all to herself, at a price affordable to a middle-class single traveler.
20th Century Member # 2196
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I remember a real bar in the lounge car with a "bartender" who actually mixed the cocktails. That was on the New York Central and the Santa Fe. I was too young to drink at the time. That would be a nice, but farfetched amenity on Amtrak. Guess I would have to go for broke and enjoy the experience on the American Orient Express.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Possibly, Mr. Toy, you should direct your mother to one of the webpages that offers a deflator, or the means to "inflation adjust" a histroical cost.
Over at another site, member (here) Pullman Co did some work in this area and if I recall properly, his conclusions were that Amtrak Sleeper travel is "in line" with historical costs and that overnight Coach travel has depreciated to such extent that it essentially is a giveaway (discussion regarding that it is worth only what you paid for it is off topic here).
So here is where she can start.
In my opinion, having as noted "been there done that", a Deluxe Bedroom (Amtrakese) is the equivalent of a Compartment, as distinct from a Bedroom (Pullmanese):
Historical fares; source - Union Pacific TT October 3, 1959 (all roads charged the same; only diffeence was "Extra Fares' assessed on some trains);
LA to Chicago:
Rail; OW First Class $85.56 "Quarter Rail' single occupancy X-fare; $21.39 1 Per. Compartment Accomodation; $48.35 10% Transportation Tax; $15.53
TOTAL; $170.83
Contemporary Amtrak fares are, of course, readilly available at the web.
I'm not certain how to "price" the meals built into the Amtrak tariff, but not the railroads, as many people, especially older people, especially older women, would skip many a meal. It wasn't "pinch penny", it simply was they didn't need the food - especially the "super sized" portions served.
rresor Member # 128
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Gilbert:
Using the GDP deflator (I have a spreadsheet that I use for work), you can find that fourth-quarter 1959 prices were 20.418% of 2004 2Q prices. That would make your quoted fare $836.66 in 2004 dollars. Last time I checked, Amtrak's charge was higher than that -- and for less service.
No finger bowls on Amtrak.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I wonder how, Mr. Resor, two persons in a Deluxe would "stack up". Here is the historical fare - same source.
There is no "rail and a quarter" (that is how is was referred to) when a two person accomodation was so occupied.
Also (and only an accountant would note this) getting really technical, the 10% Transportation Tax (repealed 1962, but offset with a fare hike) was computed separately on Rail and Pullman charges. This potentially could cause a difference of $.02 (my two cents worth) from what is reported above.
clwood Member # 3297
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So what were "drawing rooms?" What about other types of compartments?
SilverStar092 Member # 2652
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My parents took our family on Seaboard and SCL trains in the late 60s and early pre-Amtrak 70s between Miami and Richmond. The Silver Star offered separate Miami and St.Pete sections which were combined at Jacksonville. A switch engine inserted the St. Pete cars in the middle of the train to keep coaches and sleepers separated. There was a separate diner for each section. Sleeper passengers usually had a 6 bedroom-lounge car in which to relax. The Star usually had a sleeper that ran Miami to Richmond which was a convenience.
I also rode the Silver Meteor on many in-state Florida trips. Its round end observation car was ideal for watching the rails behind us and the unique sun-lounge sleeper had huge windows plus roof windows which were like a single level version of today's Superliner lounges.
rresor Member # 128
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To answer Clwood's question:
Pullman cars had five basic categories of accommodations:
1) Open sections: a pair of facing two-person seats during the day, upper and lower berths at night, with curtains. Not a private room, but the sections were separated by vertical partitions behind the seats
2) Roomettes: small rooms for one person with a short couch and a lower berth that folded down out of the wall. Each roomette had toilet and washstand.
3) Bedrooms: room for two persons with upper and lower berths and enclosed toilet and washstand. Bedrooms came in several configurations, with either two movable chairs, a chair and short couch, or a single long couch. Generally adjacent bedrooms could be combined into a single larger room by folding a partition wall between them.
4) Compartments: somewhat larger than a bedroom, but also with two berths and enclosed facilities.
5) Drawing room: room with two lower berths and one upper berth, for three people. My family used to get the single pair of connecting drawing rooms on the Silver Meteor; the two rooms connected through a narrow door next to the lower berth.
In addition, there were a few "master rooms" (with two beds, but sold at drawing room price) with showers. There were also various varieties of "slumbercoach" or "sleepercoach" rooms, similar to today's standard rooms on Amtrak. Roomettes came in standard or "duplex" varieties. But the five basic accommodations were common to most post-WW II cars.
Heavyweight cars were another story...but that was before my time.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Heavyweight Pullmans, prior to the late 30s and 40s rebuild/refurbish programs, were mainly section cars.
THE most common car of the heavyweight era had 12 sections and one drawing room.
Rooms came in the form of compartments and drawing rooms. There were a relative handful of all room cars, for the very elite trains (the TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED coming to mind).
Duplex single rooms and bedrooms both came in the late 20s and early 30s.
John
Superchief05 Member # 3271
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I have always wondered who the average type of sleeper traveler was back in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Were most rich or middle class?
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