RAILforum: California Zephyr and Coast Starlight Solutions

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Posted by fubu05 (Member # 465) on :

With the ongoing amount of delays to the Starlight, I would suggest the following:

Extend train #763 and #796 through to San Luis Obispo. Terminiate the Starlight there and originate all northbound trips at San Luis Obispo. This would save one set of equipment and provide protection cars in both Portland and SEA if the Starlight or the Builder had cars go into the dumper.

For the Zephyr, extend a Capitol train from Sacramento to Reno and originate the Zephyr at Reno when the track work there is done. Baggage service would need to be added to one Capitol train to handle the Zephyr.

Another idea is to split the Starlight into two trains at Oakland or San Jose (probably San Jose)/

#14/#11 operate SEA-SJC only. Stops south of SJC replaced with additional stops at GAC, FMT, HAY, BKY, RIC, and SUI. Train becomes Unreserved SAC-SJC.

Surfliner #565 (renunmbered #765) extends from LAX to SJC and terminates there at 8:30P. Southbound, train #796 originates at SJC and assumes current schedule at Goleta.

Train #763 becomes #563 operating to LAX only. #765 and #796 would add stops at Tamien, Capitol, Blossom Hill, Morgan Hill, San Martin, and Gilroy enroute. New stations could be constructed at Chualar, Gonzales, Greenfield, Soledad, and King City to provide Monterey County with more access points to the Amtrak system.

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Peter Van Warnerski

Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :

I like all of your ideas, Peter.
I think it would be a great idea to originate the Zephyr in Reno. It is hard to take the Zephyr, here in San Jose, as there are no real dependable or good connections with the Zephr via the Capitols. Having the Capitols create a good link would be helpful. Even if the Zephyr would start out in Sacramento, it would be better. There are 3 major Capitol runs out of San Jose, so if at least one could link with the Zephyr, it would be nice. The Capitols are usually on time, more or less.
I wonder if Amtrak should bite the bullet and forget trying to link the major long distance trains. I think it would be best to forget the Sunset Limited link with the Coast Starlight, or the Coast Starlight link with the Empire Builder. Just add extra time for overnight in a town/city using local accomodations. It's nice to have time off the train to stretch your legs and get away from the cramped train environment for a day or less. It would be really nice if the Coast Starlight could start out very early in the morning, from LA, and get into Seattle at a reasonable time.
Also, what about linking the Cascades up with Sacramento (Sacramento to Eugene).
Would it be feasible or practical?

[This message has been edited by yukon11 (edited 08-15-2004).]

Posted by Capltd29 (Member # 3292) on :

how about Amtrak magically gets enough money to buy and maintain the tracks from UP and the other railroads that delay it. They wouldn't have to worry about delays

Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :

The problem with truncating routes and forcing riders to take part of their journeys on regional trains is that it adds an extra layer of inconvenience for the traveler, making them less likely to choose the train in the first place. Given the time spent waiting in an intermediate station to transfer from one train to the next, I doubt it would result in any improvement in overall travel time for the passenger.

Remember in the pre Amtrak days one had to take three trains to get from Los Angeles to Seattle. After Amtrak combined the routes into one, ridership took off, and for a very long time it was the most heavily traveled route in Amtrak's system outside the NEC. It still is one of Amtrak's top performers in terms of ridership. So why take a step backwards that would discourage train travel?

As for the Zephyr, I think it should be extended to San Jose to gather more riders from the bay area. The station in Emeryville is hard to get to and is in a bad neighborhood. Extending it to San Jose would allow passengers to board in Oakland or San Jose, and allow for convenient bus connections to the resort communities around Monterey Bay, adding additional marketing opportunities for Amtrak.

There is actually a movement in California to extend the Zephyr to LA as an overnight train, with a significant layover in Oakland to change crews and stock up. It is claimed that this could be done with just one more trainset, but I havn't done the math to confirm that.

And let's not forget that Amtrak's problems with these trains are merely the tip of the iceberg of UP's capacity problems. UP's own customers are hopping mad right now, so the only real solution is to fix UP's problems, not adjust Amtrak.

Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :

Not sure UP management understands what needs doing. Saw somewhere that UP was proposing to add 50 something miles of double track 'between San Antonio and Los Angeles" I think this is called a teacup of water on a forest fire. Reading available information on the uprr web site, it seems they are blaming everything but inadequate line capacity. They are also suggest that the traffic increase may actually be an abberation, not a trend. Yes, more crews, more locomotives, but WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO RUN THEM ON????? And, if UP can not handle it, they have achieved a self-fulfilling prophecy because the dissatisfied customers will go elsewhere, so the traffic trend will become an abberation, not by willing customer choice but by inability of the supplier.

Agree totally that avoiding changing of trains is most desirable. This is all the more true as a lot of station facillities are still somewhere between rudimentary and non-existant. Multiple changes and getting ons and offs is one (of many) negatives in a long bus ride. At every major city you have to get off, whether you want to or not, even if you are going to be getting back on the same bus. Then there is the absolutely wonderful airline concept I have hit a few times: The "through flight with a change of equipment".

As to the overnight extension of the CZ, sounds like a wonderful idea. One extra set of equipment is right. You would have a somewhat long scheduled stop in Emeryville or Oakland westbound/southbound, but about a normal major station stop time in the other direction.

Posted by Grandma Judy (Member # 3278) on :

I also agree with Mr Toy - multiple changes to regional trains would dramatically decrease LD train travelers like me whose interest is seeing the country on a "land cruise". Schlepping my luggage from train to train through marginal stations is a real turn-off. And think of the opportunities to lose checked baggage - the mind boggles!!!

Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :

The only problem with originating the CS at SLO is wyeing the train (turning it around). I'm pretty sure there are no close-by wyes and no real estate to build the necessary maintenance facilities. Equipment would have to be deadheaded to and from Goleta or LAX if there were any equipment problems. That might also be the case in Reno. Although SAC MIGHT have some wyeing locations, I don't think they have the necessary facilities to maintaine a Long distance route before it's turn-around trip.

I think the idea of extending the CZ to/from LAX would be a great idea, if the passengers can tolerate longer delays. Think about it: combine the average incurred delay on the CS between LAX and EMY and add it on to the average delays encurred on the CZ and what do you got? Another Sunset Limited: 6 to 10 hours late to its final destination I'm guessing: forget connections in LAX or CHI.

I suppose NB if you were to do this, you can have #6 leave LAX around 8:30p or 9:00pm, which would give it about an hour or so layover in Oakland or Emeryville.

I agree that it would make much more sense to start the CZ in SJC, but again (I may be wrong) I don't think there's anywhere to wye the train in SJC, is there? It would make sense to at least make sense to start it in OAK. I think the only reason Amtrak doesn't is that it would require the CZ to back into the station at OAK and pull back forward into EMY-essentially back-tracking.

Now, if the old Desert Wind was still around, passengers in So.Cal would have a more convenient train-to-train connection to the CZ. One things for sure: Amtrak needs a more convenient train-to-train connection with the CZ!! Right now from LAX you have to make 3 connections!!!: Bus to Bakersfield, Train 711 to Stockton, Bus to Sacramento, and THEN an hour and a half later (if your lucky)you board the CZ!!!!

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Patrick

Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :

quote:
Originally posted by George Harris:
Not sure UP management understands what needs doing. ....it seems they are blaming everything but inadequate line capacity. They are also suggest that the traffic increase may actually be an abberation, not a trend.

This suggests to me that UP has no faith in the value of its own product. Methinks UP stockholders should be calling for a change in management pronto!