Well hello again from England. You haven't heard much from me the past few months as I've had a lot on with work and also had to do a period of Jury Service so GeoffM has had to flag the contributors flag for us Brits. Is it really two and a half years since I took the California Zephyr and one year tomorrow that I took the Southwest Chief? Where does the time go..... Anyway, many parts of England have had the wettest summer since records began - so much for Global Warming! - and although today is bright and sunny I was playing around with various dates on the Amtrak website as next spring can't come quickly enough as far as I'm concerned. I had two thoughts in mind for my next long distance trip: 1. Chicago to LAX on the Eagle/Sunset 2. Chicago to San Luis Obispo on the Empire Builder/Coast Starlight via Portland Just as a matter of interest, I put in a few dates for the Sunset Ltd for the full length of the journey (Orlando-LAX) but after all the horror stories I've heard recently, I wondered if even a thick-skinned old coot like me could take on the SL without putting the blood-pressure through the roof! But there's something in the Williams make-up that loves a challenge, and when I saw the fares - well, judge for yourself. These are the cheapest add-on fares for accomodation that I could find for a variety of dates in early May next year. 1. Eagle/Sunset CHI-LAX: standard bedroom $437 deluxe $737 2. Empire/CS CHI-PDX-SLO : standard bedroom $335, deluxe $650 3. Sunset ORL-LAX: standard bedroom $212 deluxe $398
WOW!! It cost $313 standard to take the Zephyr from Iowa to Reno and that was booked four months in advance, so the prospect of three nights in deluxe for less than $400 was too much to resist so I booked it there and then. All I have to hope now is that between now and then the service doesn't get axed or UP don't close the line for engineering work (and never mind problems with floods, hurricanes etc). So, am I brave, foolish or just plain mad!!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Let's say "adventuresome', Mr. Williams.
You note the comparative bargain basement rates applicable to the Sunset when compared with other trains. I had reason to note same, when in a fit of madness, I comtemplated an 'end to end' trip on #1 departing August 25. I noted that Orlando to LA, for a Senior in a Standard, would be some US$.158 a mile. This compared with a Chi-LA trip of #3 Chief departing same day @ $.287/mi.
Oh well, enjoy if possible.
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 09-05-2004).]
Posted by snake (Member # 2430) on :
May is a good month to travel.
One of the aggravating factors to the Sunset Limited these days is the large amount of freight container traffic being shipped from Santa's Elves in Asia to the malls across America in time for the Christmas shoppers.
I'd bet that by the time of your trip the Sunset Limited's delays will be down to a more "normal" 6-8 hours.
If I were to think about booking on the Sunset Limited, I'd think about April or May.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Welcome back. Ironic that we're having the hottest day for months only now that we're into September.
If I read that correctly, you're doing Orlando to Los Angeles in one hit? That's a shame if so, because there are a few great cities to visit - New Orleans and San Antonio to name two.
As to whether you're mad, I think Mr Norman has put it succintly! Personally I'd do it myself, but wouldn't have a credit-card-held reservation at a hotel in LA. After all, there are opportunities to see sights you wouldn't otherwise see - the Salton Sea, the wind farm near Palm Springs etc.
How are you getting to/from the USA? I believe Virgin serve both Orlando and LA directly, which is a reasonable airline. BA do as well, but I prefer not to get the "service with a snarl" one gets with BA.
Geoff M.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
To follow up further on my "fit of madness" noted earlier. Had I gone through with that trip, likely I would have booked and guaranteed a hotel near LAX (as in airport) expecting of boarding an early 8AM flight on a "low fare" carrier back to Chicago (low fare carrier would have been needed account the last minute one way travel; for RT with sufficient notice, the "majors" - or their new moniker "legacy" - can do just as well on fares and have many more resources to take care of you should things go wrong).
#1(24AUG) showed up @ LA 1155PM Fri Aug 27. By the time I would have gotten out to LAX, it would have been 1AM, would have had to be at airport 630A for an 8AM (Sat Aug 28); in short, a wasted night's "non-sleep" in a surely $175 room. At my age, it is simply not my "thing" to show up in a city without a guaranteed hotel reservation.
Good Luck, Mr. Williams.
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 09-12-2004).]
Posted by dilly (Member # 1427) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr williams: after all the horror stories I've heard recently, I wondered if even a thick-skinned old coot like me could take on the SL without putting the blood-pressure through the roof!
Despite the Sunset Limited's much-discussed cancellations / annulments due to freight traffic, accidents, breakdowns, or the weather, the train usually manages to complete its full journey. Provided you don't schedule a tight connection (train-to-train or train-to-plane), and you don't mind staring out at the same trackside fencepost for hours at a time, you'll probably be fine.
One general tip to other travelers who plan to take the same trip by sleeper:
Although I'm a fan of lower-level accommodations, the Sunset Limited is the one train where I'd opt for an upstairs room. Lengthy delays mean full (and often highly stinky) toilet retention tanks. Since lower level passengers ride much closer to the "action," they get to experience first hand just how fragrant those tanks can get.
Trust me, if your train ends up running 20 hours late, you don't want to be down there.
[This message has been edited by dilly (edited 09-05-2004).]
Posted by City of Miami (Member # 2922) on :
I have been booked for months on the SL from New Orleans to Los Angeles 11/22, sleeper $284. I have a room reserved in Little Tokyo 11/24 and can go to see La Boheme up the hill that night if necessary. I haven't booked on the Starlight next day, Thanksgiving, as I am hoping for a RailSale reduction. I also haven't booked on the Crescent from Atlanta TO New Orleans yet; I'm assuming I can wait til the last week or so without penalty or regret. Comments?
I have been contemplating a Florida vacation in March, including return on #92 and #1 at $327 Mia to Lax, first class on #1. Amazing! However, that may be tempting the gods beyond their endurance. Instead I think I'll go to Washington DC (#6/#30 $426, 1st class all the way;#6/#50 $518 (I wonder why more)), train up the corridor to NYC for a few days and fly back JFK to SFO $113. This is partly on your advice, Mr. Norman, of the trip on The Capital Ltd being better timed EB; I'm a little concerned about the Zephyr being late into Denver thus after dark.
Thank you, Dilly, for your well-considered remarks about upper/lower on the Sunset. I'll look into my room assignment right away!
Nothing is booked yet, but I feel it's getting late. Thoughts and comments welcome! John Andrew
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Mr. Williams, it is good to hear from you again. I agree with Mr. Norman that you are more adventurous than mad, but you are taking a risk. There is always the chance of a bustitution. Plus, there have been rumors that some changes are in the works for the Sunset. These range from eliminating sleepers to changing the eastern terminal to New Orleans instead of Orlando. Mind you, these are rumors, nothing more.
However, in a recent letter to employees, David Gunn said: "In Transportation, Ed Walker and his team have been taking steps to alleviate the problems, like canceling trains in circumstances where we know extraordinary delays will occur. We may also invoke other measures on some trains where we just can’t deliver the level of service we’re currently offering." It seems likely that that he was referring to the Sunset. What those "other measures" might involve remains to be seen.
[This message has been edited by Mr. Toy (edited 09-05-2004).]
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
In answer to the title of your topic: all of the above. In the tradition of Phinious(sp?) Fogg, Columbus, and Lewis and Clark, your quest is the envy of railfans throughout the world. Death before bustitution! We, who are about to cry, salute you!
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
GBN - in my wordy way, I meant a reservation held without a credit card, ie non-guaranteed so you don't lose any money if you don't turn up!
Staring at the same fence post for hours on end is certainly a risk on the Sunset. We spent 3 hours doing so once while the freight ahead was being fixed.
Geoff M.
Posted by geojon (Member # 3344) on :
Having just finished a similar trip ourselves, our advice is go for it. It was a great trip made better by the Sunset Limited being moderately late.
The Sunset crews were great and the meals were consistently good. One of the things that seems to happen occasionally on the long distance trains like the SL is the formation of a small community, almost like a small town with gossip flying from end to end and town characters and all the rest. Quite a lot of fun when it happens.
As others have cautioned and you've already heeded, leave lots of connection time t so you have at least a chance of avoiding bustitution.
We also rode the Zephyr and were concerned about our connection there, but the train was reasonably on time (2 hours late). As it turned out, the equipment for the Capitol Limited was supposed to be taken from the arriving Empire Builder, but the EB was so late that Amtrak took the Zephyr equipment instead. Consequently the CL couldn't depart until the CZ arrived anyway and we couldn't possibly miss the connection. Of course, we were 3 hours late leaving and wound up being bussed from Pittsburgh to Washington DC, but that's another story.
Anyway, prepare for an adventure and enjoy the trip. Take a cell phone along to deal with any unexpected schedule changes. If you have a GPS, bring it along too - the one's with built-in maps have the ability to give the distance nearby cities, and since the stops in some areas a few and far between, you may not be sure just where you are without one and it's nice to know at any given moment how the train is progressing without waiting to hear it from the crews.
Have a good trip!
Jon
Posted by graynt (Member # 17) on :
I returned from a trip on the Texas Eagle leaving LA on August 27th. When I got to LAX late that afternoon I noticed #1 wasn t scheduled to arrive until 11PM. Bad omen..however there was another trainset ready to roll. I had a standard sleeper from LA to San Antonio on 2 and a standard sleeper on 22..I saved over $100 booking two seperate sleepers than booking straight through on 422
We left LAX on time and we were in Maricopa only an hour late..so far so good. Unfortunatly freight traffic took over to Tucson. We were only five miles out of Tucson when we were stuck waiting for freight trains for almost two hours. Our arrival in Tucson was at Noon..less than four hours late and I knew I would be bustituted from El Paso to Fort Worth. I got the official word after lunch(nice to see a Jamabalaya dish on the menu) and I looked at the upcoming all night bus ride as an "adventure" Two busses took 60passengers to Fort Worth on an all night bus experience with breaks in Van Horn, Midland and Abilene and a stop at an Iron Skillet for breakfast 25 miles out of Fort Worth. We arrived in Fort Worth six hours ahead of train #22's arrival, so I had plenty of time for a walk around the city and a stop at a Barnes and Noble. The remainder of the trip was uneventful and on time into Chicago. Then I transferred to the lake Shore to get to New York,smack in the middle of the Republican convention!
I ve been traveling on long distance trains for 15 years, and I plan on continuing. I called Amtrak Customer relations about a refund for the portion of the sleepers I missed, but all in all train travel is my vacation and even with the delays and other problems that arise there is nothing like a cross country train trip!
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Now if UP had not abandoned (or kicked Amtrak off) the line through Phoenix, the SL would have been off their overcrowded mainline for a segment, instead of blocking it while stopped in Maricopa. So now we have two of the fastest growing US metro areas and vacation destinations (Phoenix and Las Vegas) that have become the Unserved Public on the UP. Who is next?
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
Indeed, TwinStarRocket, if Amtrak wants to gain public credibility it has to provide service to the major cities - the idea that conurbations the size of Phoenix & Las Vegas couldn't support two/three trains a day to/from LAX is laughable, and the quicker a direct daily LAX - San Francisco gets going the better. And that's not mentioning major centres like Nashville, Tulsa, Columbus, Des Moines etc (any other nominations of sizeable towns without passenger service? How big is Akron, Ohio - due to lose service when the Three Rivers is axed? 250,000+?)
To answer some of your other points, no, Geoff I definitely WON'T be flying BA, I avoid them at all costs. I'll probably fly in via Washington on United. It's a few hours longer but I'm close to getting enough frequent flyer miles for a free transatlantic trip! Also, I'll be flying out from Reno which negates any inward gain with Virgin or Continental. As for making a connection at LAX, I'm ok as long as we're not more than 12 hours late. I'm spending that night in Santa Barbara so have a choice of half a dozen Surfliners throughout the day. I'll be stocking up with several large bottles of water and spare batteries for my little FM radio (and possibly a bottle of disinfectant in case Dilly's warning about the retention tanks comes to fruition although I am booked in a deluxe sleeper - are all the deluxe rooms upstairs?). I have a vague idea as to what a GPS is, but I don't have one of those and my mobile/cellphone won't work in the US as you use different frequencies but I don't think that'll worry me too much. Mr Toy - any news on your rail-link to Monterray, or has Governor Arnie delayed it ad infinitum? Should the worst come to the worst and the service be axed, truncated or bustituted before next May, I can always cut my losses as a one-way air ticket from Orlando to LAX is only around $140 which will hardly break the Williams bank account. As GeoffM said, the weather was beautiful in England last Sunday and it lasted until Thursday but we've had three days of torrential rain since, the leaves are coming off the trees like it was November and it's officially been the third wettest summer in 248 years. It is so depressing that yesterday I transferred some cash from my savings to my credit card account, got onto the web, found a cheapish flight to the West Coast, and in 17 days time I'll be in California!! Pismo Beach, here I come!!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Have a great one Mr. Williams.
GBN
"Got on board a westbound seven forty seven Didn't think before deciding what to do Ooh, that talk of opportunities, TV breaks and movies Rang true, sure rang true (Chorus) Seems it never rains in southern California Seems I've often heard that kind of talk before It never rains in California, but girl don't they warn ya It pours, man it pours"
quote:Originally posted by mr williams (edited for the spelling of "Monterey" by Mr. Toy): Mr Toy - any news on your rail-link to Monterey, or has Governor Arnie delayed it ad infinitum?
Its still set for sometime in '09. But they're still trying to find complete funding. They're doing the engineering and environmental studies on the Monterey Branch Line right now.
Meanwhile our trusty Coast Starlight manages to get through more often than not.
[This message has been edited by Mr. Toy (edited 09-12-2004).]
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
It's seven and half months since I posted this topic and the trip is now just seven and a half days away. This time next week I'll be on my way across the pond heading for Florida. I'll be ready with my binoculars, atlas and camera to see what 71 hours on Amtrak will bring. I'm in Room E, taking what used to be called a deluxe sleeper for the first time and thoroughly looking forward to it.
I've been tracking the SL on the Amtrak website for the past few weeks and it hasn't been "too" delayed by historical standards, but the westbound number 1 from ORL on April 16th arrived in LA nearly NINE hours late. Although I'm not staying in LA on the weds night, I've only got to get as far as Santa Barbara so as long as it arrives within 11 hours or so I'll be able to get a Surfliner or Throughway (and presumably, as I have a through ticket, if it is any later than that would Amtrak would have to taxi or hotel me?).
Santa Barbara & Pismo Beach here I come - albeit by a 3,000 mile detour!!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Hi Mr. Williams,
I recognized this thread and happily clicked on it thinking maybe you had just completed your trip and were going to tell us how it went.
I hope that you have a great trip (bedroom E should give you a smooth ride, it's near the center of the car) and will tell us about it when it's completed.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
I love the Sunset Ltd--have been West to East on it 5 times in thelast 12 years--always enjoyable! I love the scenery around Tucson, near El Paso, around New Orleans before it gets dark and the stuff after Tallahassee and Madison in northern Florida---always worth seeing! Don't worry if the train is 6 hours late--nothing you can do about it. Sit back and relax and enjoy a "longer" ride for your money. Who cares if it's late!!!
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
Mr. Williams,
What day do you depart on #1? I will head westward on May 6 which probably is later than you are going.
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
Afraid so, Silverstar902, I depart this Sunday, May 1st all things being equal. I'm trying to track the westbound April 24th departure across the country but the Amtrak site says there is a "service disruption" which sounds ominous four days before my holiday!! The site is working fine for tracking other trains so it's not a technical/website fault. Anybody know what this means?
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
Mr. Williams, do not worry. Train #2 was quite late into Florida on the 23rd so its departure as train #1 on the 24th originated at Sanford where it ties up for the night between trips. This saves time for cleaning the train and allows adequate crew rest. Passengers from Orlando and Winter Park were simply put on a chartered bus for the half ride ride to Sanford. The computer just recognizes this as an anomoly and gives the ominous "service disruption" notice.
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
Thanks SilverStar902. I'm all packed and ready to go, I fly from Heathrow tomorrow lunchtime. #2 is currently about 2 hours late approaching Houston so hopefully it will get to ORL not too badly delayed and "service disruption" won't rear its ugly head again!
I'll let you know how it went when I get to the other side and will post a full travelogue when I get back.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
Sit back and enjoy the ride! It's a good one!
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
Mr. Williams...Let us know how the trip works out. If time permits, I may try to stop by the platform and try to catch you during your stop Sunday night in Tallahassee. It may be hard for me to make it but, if you check this before you depart Orlando, be on the lookout when you arrive in Florida's capital city.
Posted by CoastStarlight99 (Member # 2734) on :
Have a great trip Mr. Williams!
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
