o (approx)am.This means that Waldo (Gainesville), Ocala, and Wildwood will loose service - that is, if you consider a no Sleeper no Diner train passing SB during "somambulist" hours (think you'll need a medical dictionary for that one) and NB not much better, to be defined as service.
I'm certain Mr. Kairho will agree that this is a mistake. I realize the pilgrims must come to the rodent's shrine, but I simply think that two of those three communites noted offer more potential than does Palatka, DeLand, or Sanford.
Regarding the soon to be killed Seaboard service, if Wildwood were eliminated in place of a station at CR 42, that would be within 2 miles of The Villages. As I have noted here before, that community is 100,000 strong and growing. Everyone is of "train riding age" i.e. time and $$$$ to do so, and they "all came from somewhere".
These folks at Amtrak amaze me with their ability to find new ways to enact cutbacks from a 'national' network that is already skeletal......
By this new standard can we assume that any station presently served only between midnight and 7:30am is a candidate for losing it's passenger train?
OK......I'm turning my sarcasm off.....
I'm not surprised that the 'Three Rivers' is going......particularly following the speculation that Amtrak was about to exit the mail and express business.
I'm not surprised that the 'Palmetto' south of Savannah is going. The NYP-SAV version of this train was a success before and this change means improved schedules for stations in the Carolinas.
What does surprise me is that Amtrak would tag the 'Silver Star' with a cumbersome turn around to serve Tampa. I'm curious if each Silver Star will stop in Lakeland both coming and going from/to Tampa? I'm curious whether this altered 'Silver Star' will continue to offer Florida connections with North Carolina's Piedmont at Raleigh or Cary.
It seems to me that a separate Tampa section from either the Star or the Meteor (say a viewliner sleeper from the 'Three Rivers', a lounge, and two or three coaches) would be a better idea. Split it from the main train at Jacksonville with some of the soon to be laid off workforce that has previously been switching those roadrailers on and off the rear of Amtrak trains there. This train would actually 'serve' Waldo and Ocala during daylight hours.
Sarcasm back on.....
What an idea.......a train offering first class accomodations at daylight hours. This is a train that people might actually ride. Why not give it a chance?
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David Pressley
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 09-08-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Capltd29:
What would a New Silver Star Schedule look like?
Initial press release indicates train 91 (southbound) arriving in Tampa at 10:35am and train 92 (northbound) departing Tampa at 5:22pm.
That would mean 92 is in Jacksonville around 11:00pm and 91 would be into Jacksonville around 5:00am. Even with a 'faster' schedule north of Jacksonville it is unlikely that the connection to/from the Piedmont will stay in place UNLESS that schedule is also adjusted.
Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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David Pressley
[This message has been edited by North American Railroader (edited 09-08-2004).]
I'm also amused by the "45 to 60 minute" estimate for splitting the Star into a West Coast and East Coast section at Jax. Way back when, Seaboard used to split both the Meteor and the Star at Wildwood. Both carried obs cars, so a complicated series of moves was required to cut off the obs, double over the West Coast section, add the obs back to the Miami section, etc. Total time required? Less than 20 minutes.
Why does it seem that we're going backward?
(excerpted): The Florida cities of Lakeland and Tampa, now served by the Palmetto, will be served instead by the New York-Orlando-Miami Silver Star. Sleeping car and dining car service to Tampa will be restored, with First class passengers from St. Petersburg, Sarasota, and Fort Myers having a much shorter bus ride to Tampa instead of Orlando. The Silver Star will operate at a more convenient time at Tampa (5:22 p.m. northbound and 10:35 a.m. southbound) than the Palmetto and operate on a one-hour faster schedule between New York and Florida"
Many years ago, the 2 trains used to split in Auburndale, with one section headed to MIA and one section headed to TPA.
Difference will be that the Star will now continue on the ACL to Tampa. The Meteor will continue to interchange to the SAL @ Auburndale.
No longer will any train depart JAX, and head for Baldwin after interchange to the SAL - the "sub-bus" (in case anyone thinks bustitution is getting worn out) will depart from the front of the Station.
Of interest, there will be a restoration of service on Nov 1; namely the (a guess) .04 mile between the switch for the SE quadrant and SW (built by the State during 1982) @ Auburndale. Passenger trains will again "clank" over the SAL-ACL "diamond".
Note to younger Members who only know CSX; use of the predecessor roads makes it far easier for us "older heads" to know what goes where.
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 09-13-2004).]
Somebody at Amtrak noticed that, heck, when you're at Lakeland you're only 60 miles from TPA -- and an idea was born.
Sigh! I remember Wildwood as it was, and the very fast SAL from Wildwood to WPB.
quote:
Originally posted by SilverStar092:
Running the Star on a dogleg from Auburndale to Tampa and back is just plain stupid! It will add about 3 hours to the trip no matter what Amtrak says and will drive through passengers crazy. They already have messed up the Star by arriving southbound into Miami at rush hour instead of the traditional early afternoon and now will compound matters by making passengers look at the same scenery between Auburndale and Tampa. This also is likely to make JAX times unacceptable and will drive away this steady market. This is just another example trading passenger convenience for operational convenience.
Agreed........
It would be so not difficult to operate a separate Tampa section from Jacksonville via Ocala.......even if the separate section is merely a locomotive, a viewliner sleeper, a lounge car, and two amfleet coaches.
The operating crews are already employed. The manpower necessary to split and rejoin the train in Jacksonville already works there shuttling the roadrailers on and off the train. With the planned removal of the Three Rivers sleeper November 1 the additional equipment for a Tampa section with sleeper is there.
This plan is just so poor it makes one wonder.
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David Pressley
A separate section from Jacksonville to Tampa via Ocala would provide better service to the booming population growth of this section of Florida.
Where will I go, is the schedule (times) the same - Oct. 21-12:00 noon (approx,) and Richmond Oct. 22-8 o (approx)am.
Any help will be apprec, thanks, Maryann.
PS, we do have a sleeper reserved.
In my opinion, the best solution would be to split the train at Jacksonville, but that's not going to happen. THEREFORE, I am sugggesting the southbound bus meet the Silver Meteor in Jacksonville (at its new arrival time of 7:50 AM) instead of meeting the southbound Silver Star (arriving at 4:50 AM).
I would like your reactions (pro, con, problems) to these questions:
1) What do you think of having the southbound Ambus meet the Meteor in Jacksonville (instead of meeting the Star)?
2) Do you think it might be feasible for the Ambus to go as far as Wildwood and then turn east to Sanford or DeLand? (Sanford would provide the opportunity to serve The Villages and Mt Dora. DeLand would provide the opportunity for Ambus service to and from Daytona Beach.)
I realize these suggestions do not help Dade City, but Dade City is only about 35-40 miles away from Lakeland or Tampa. I suspect people in Dade City would prefer to use Amtrak stations in Lakeland or Tampa rather than a five hour bus trip to or from Jacksonville.
What do you all think?
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the next move with the spring 2005 timetable change.
On the routes where these trains operate over the same trackage (i.e. Northeast Corridor, south of Jacksonville), they are scheduled within 1 to 4 hours a part (except the northbound Silver Star due to excessive padding). The current "spacious" schedule currently in place will be lost.
And the portions where these trains operate over different trackage - it will largely be the wee hours of the morning.
Northbound - New schedule has the Star/Meteor leaving Miami within less than 2 hours of each other. Old schedule has the Star/Meteor leaving Miami within 4 hours of each other.
Southbound - New schedule has the Star/Meteor leaving NYC within 4 hours of each other, with arrival time into Miami within less than an hour of each other. Old schedule allowed for Star/Meteor leaving over 7 hours of each other, with arrival time into Miami 4 hours of each other.
Silver Service has had good ridership increases. Looking forward to how these new schedule changes will pan out.
Also, with these new schedules, they might as well split the train in Jacksonville. Too many connections are being lost with the new Silver Meteor's schedule (i.e. Lake Shore Limited, Vermonter, Three Rivers/Pennsylvanian, Cardinal, etc.). Silver Meteor loses descent southbound arrival times into Charleston and Savannah -used to be a nice overnight service from New York/DC. Amtrak also loses the versatilty of same-day run-throughs of equipment (i.e. inbound Lake Shore Limited/Cresecent/Silver Meteor turns to become the same day outbound Silver Meteor). The loss of the the Three Rivers' Viewliners (3 in total) has afforded the new equipment utilization that will take place. Poor use of equipmnt in my opinion.
I've made other points on other posts regarding these Silver Service changes, but overall, I think it's a bad business decision and ridership is not going to increase as much as it could have.
Supposedly the Silver Star and Silver Meteor will operate with three Viewliners. It's often ignored, that this used to be the norm - before the Viewliner maintenance debacle that occurred in the past year.