RAILforum: Pennsylvania Amtrak

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Posted by TALKrr (Member # 683) on :

I read , with interest , an article in the Pittsburgh paper about Pennsylvania's Department of Transportation's refusal to offer Amtrak the 2-3 million dollars it requested to maintain existing train service across the state to Pittsburgh and beyond.

What bothers me is that Penn DOT willingly helps to support the Keystone Service train system which "saturates" the Harrisburg-Philly corridor with over 20 trains a day !!

Legislators from my part of the state (Western Pennsylvania) seem to care less about this gross imbalance in service.

As of March, 2005 there will be TWO daily trains between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg , yet over TWENTY between Harrisburg and Philadelphia.

I acknowledge thatthe Harrisburg-Philly corridor has a large population base and thus a bigger rider "base."-----but one requiring 20 trains a DAY ?? I think not.

Wouldn't it be a reasonable request for PennDOT to STIPULATE that any Amtrak funds used for Pennsylvania service be designated for the WHOLE state instead of just 100 miles of track ?

To be honest, I really do not think this kind of "imbalance" in state service (east "vs." west) or (north "vs." south) exists anywhere else in the country.

As mentioned, it is a mystery to me why Western Pennsylvania legislators do not protest this situation. All of my contact with them seems to fall on "deaf-ears."

Evidently the "lucky" Pennsylvanians are the ones living along the Harrisburg-Philly corridor. Everyone else is "chopped-liver."

Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :

I still think, Mr. Talk, that "Madame Butterball" has one more aria to sing; maybe Pinkerton "will arrive in time' this time.

Posted by Kairho (Member # 1567) on :

TalkRR, would you please provide some ridership and/or population statistics to support your contention. It's difficult to agree or disagree in a vacuum.

Posted by City of Miami (Member # 2922) on :

I hope the aria is as good as Un bel di (One fine day)! One fine day is April, 4/4 to be exact (4 days too late) I want to take the train from Pittsburgh to NYP. The 10am departure gets me into NYC too late to make it up to 65th and Broadway for 8:00 curtain. The 7am departure would be just fine, thank you Mr. Gunn or the PA DOT or WHOEVER!! At some point I'll have to scrap that leg of my coast-to-coast-and-then-some Amtrak journey.

Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :

"Un Bel di" is what you can hope for, Fr. City of Miami (Butterfly was still confident that her "CAD" was going to make the scene), However, 'Con amor muore chi non può serbar vita con onore", maybe "CAD" Pinkerton might make it one minute earlier. When I last saw such performed (Lyric: Joseph Papp production) it was not 30 seconds later that UNOHOO arrived but the bloody deed had been done.

Posted by TALKrr (Member # 683) on :

Dear Kairho:

I do not have the figures you request , unfortunately. Perhaps someone who browses thee board from the Eastern part of Pennsylvania might provide that information.

There is no doubt that the rider-ship and population base in the Harrisburg-Philly corridor IS much greater than that between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh. I do not dispute that at all----so please understand.

I simply do not like the "Feast or Faminine" scenario that presently exists. I am not convinced that that corridor needs 20 daily trains serving it , WHILE service through to the Pittsburgh area is inadequate.

AGAIN: Would it not be "reasonable" for PennDOT to stipulate (to Amtrak) that funding for service in the state depend upon more BALANCE in service across the state ?

Let me use Florida just as an example:

What if there were 20 daily trains between Jacksonville and Orlando , but only 2 between Orlando and Miami ? Wouldn't this seem a little "odd."??

Remember: I do NOT dispute the fact that there DEFINITELY IS a larger ridership and population base between the two Pennsylvania "corridors" I speak of. BUT, I think daily service that is TEN TIMES more frequent is a little "over-saturation" , especially when the Western half of the state has little or no service.

Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :

Just looking at the obvious I do have to agree that it is alittle odd to have 20 trains a day between Philly and Harrisburg and only two to Pittsburgh. I wonder what the ridership is on the Harrisburg trains, however, you do have to remember that the line is electified, so that cuts a lot of the costs. I'd think that there would be four or more trains a day, though. This would all be solved if they ran the Spirit of St. Louis again...

Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :

Santiy Check advised:

If electrification is such a great cost saver, then why is the northeast corridor so expensive to operate?

Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :

"If electrification is such a great cost saver, then why is the northeast corridor so expensive to operate?"

One reason (and there are bound to be plenty of others) is simply maintaining a high speed railway to the standards required for such speeds. A 100mph railway needs less TLC than a 125/135/150mph railway.

I will contradict myself a little here by saying that *allegedly* the standard of the track and catenary is not exactly "up to scratch" though. Not to European standards, anyhow. I seem to remember Mr Gunn holding up a cross section of rail where the profile of the head had been worn to such an extent that nearly a full square inch was missing from the head.

I assume there's also a lot more traffic on the NEC, thus requiring more maintenance.

Geoff M.

Posted by Kairho (Member # 1567) on :

The question of the wide difference in service between eastern and western Pennsylvania is not being argued. Nor is whether the proper ratio is 10:2, 20:2 or even 30:2.

However, without ridership figures it is impossible to judge whether that 20:2 figure is reasonable or not.

Also, the distribution of trains across the day must be considered along with the purposes of rail travel. Eastern PA has a strong history of rail commuting, including a couple of trains from Harrisburg all the way to Penn Station in Manhattan. This activity will greatly skew weekday ridership.

And, finally, it should be noted that SEPTA also runs many trains on the Main Line, along with other lines, so the actual ratio of trains is more like 30:1 or 40:1 (I don't have those figures).

In order to make a judgement as to whether PADOT is acting responsibility we need facts!

Posted by Jeff (Member # 3291) on :

My wife and I take the Pennsylvanian from NJ to Pgh several times a year because driving is too stressful and the airlines charge us $250+ for a 45-minute flight to Pittsburgh (it is often cheaper to fly to San Francisco from Newark Airport...than Pittsburgh!). We take this train more than any other on Amtrak, and we live along the NEC.

This new schedule really sucks. Arriving in Pittsburgh at 10 pm is incredibly inconvenient if we wanted to have dinner plans in Pittsburgh.

I'd love to see some ridership numbers between HAR & PGH. Usually, our train is 75% full during that segment based on my observation, with business class sometimes sold out.

I do know that the ride is much smoother on NS Iron than the Amtrak-owned track east of HAR, though.