Flooding near Moorpark, boulders on track near Seacliff (between Ventura & Santa Barbara), track washouts in 4 places between Goleta and P Conection (Santa Barbara to San Luis Obispo). Signal in the ocean at one point. Look for this to be an extensive closure
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
Yes my train (11) Coast Starlight ended at San Louis Obispo this evening. Everyone going south of this station was bused. There were four buses (2 to LA) (1 to Santa Barbara-Oxnard) (and 1 other I didn't catch where it was going) I went to LA. Luckily we arrived in time to catch the Surfliner 776 to get me to Fullerton my final destination.
I'll write more of this trip later. Since I just got back from a long day, I'm going to bed now
[This message has been edited by Southwest Chief (edited 01-10-2005).]
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
As of 8:15AM, 01/10/05, the local radio reports no Amtrak service north or south from SBA. Highway 101 is closed in both directions at La Conchita, east of Santa Barbara between here and Ventura. It's a mess out there, folks.
Frank in soggy SBA.
Anybody have a set of plans for an Ark?
Posted by rY. (Member # 3528) on :
Oh dear.
<self-interest>Do you think they'll have things open again by Saturday?</self-interest>
Posted by JONATHON (Member # 2899) on :
Coast Starlight And Pacific Surfliner were Stoped due to a sink hole, and they just showed on the news right now a small town, one I often notice each trip from an incident that happend there earlyer, there was a big land slide, some of the Starlight's Tracks were in the shots, it was obviose the track was shut down because of how rescue workers walked and parked there trucks over them, the was one person killed, and some are still traped in there homes
The small town is La Conchita just south of the Ventura/Santa Barbara County line. Ten years ago it was the site of a similar, smaller slide. They are saying 10-15 homes destroyed and one confirmed death. 101 both N/B and S/B have been closed all day between Carpinteria and Ventura because of an earlier, smaller slide.
I expect this will keep the line closed for sometime.
Frank in soaked SBA
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Frank:
Maybe you can help me out some here. Both as a resident and civil engineer from and working in normally wetter climates, I simply can not understand what goes on every time there is some heavy rain in California. I would have thought in such a super regulated state that building on landslide prone areas would be verboten. Yet also, given the pictures I see of some of these areas, yes they might have beautiful views, but you would have to be nuts to build on them because they are so inherently unstable. Even without building codes it would seem that anyone with functional brain cells would back up a ways from the cliff edges to build.
Anyone out there remember the old Sunday School song, "The wise man built his house upon the rock / The foolish man built his house upon the sand" and what happened when the rains came down? (Matthew 7:24-27) Or is this sort of source illegal to discuss in California?
George
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
George, I'm no geologist, but perhaps I can help answer that. Rains such as this are fairly rare. The normally dry earth becomes supersaturated and turns to slippery mud. I'm not entirely sure why this happens so much in southern California. Much greater rainfall amounts are routine in the Pacific Northwest, but do little or no such damage there. I think it may have something to do with soil composition.
As to why people would actually build there, two words: They're nuts. People get complacent. County supervisors and city councils are more concerned with property tax revenues and housing supplies than geology, so they issue permits for subdivisions. I am always dumbfounded when I drive Highway 1 just north of Pacifica, which is on the coast a few minutes south of San Francisco. You can actually see houses hanging on cliffs right alongside a visible portion of the San Andreas Fault.
Back in the '60s my sister had a high school science teacher who, for a week, promised to give his "scare lecture" on Friday. The gist of it was that there is no geologically safe place to build a home in California. So.... perhaps we should all move. But clearly, some places are much safer than others.
------------------ "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience." -- Hyman Rickover The Del Monte Club Car
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Thanks, Mr. Toy,
Yes, in an absolute sense there is no place safe to build anywhere. You are always playing the odds to some extent, but if you have to play Russian Roulette, why load all the chambers?
I have spent most of my life in areas subject to tornados and near the New Madrid fault, and the last 15 years in an area that has earthquakes and typhoons, but with the tornados, we always took practical precautions and had an escape plan, and knew that many houses had stood for 100 years or longer without getting hit by a tornado. Here, I live in a well built concrete building, and not near a beach. It seems that the Californian coastal cliff dweller believes that rain does not happen. In fact, earthquakes here are like part of the weather, you know they will happen often, in varying severity. They are so much like the weather, that the seismic office in Taiwan is administered by the Taiwan Weather Bureau.
George
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
George & Mr. Toy - I AM a geologist, and I actually worked in California for a few years back in the 80's (San Jose area) - the biggest geologic hazard in California is LANDSLIDES, not earthquakes. Compositions of rock and soil are such that they erode very easily and can easily become supersaturated after heavy rains, especially on steep slopes which have been cut for highways, railroads, etc., and not properly reinforced, thus causing landslides on just about any slope. There have been special zoning areas established throughout California along and on either side of active fault zones -- fault zones add to the instability of the rocks and soil which are subject to landslides also, especially after those materials have already been chewed up by earthquake activity.
Yes, people are crazy who build homes on cliffs with "scenic views" that are very prone to landsliding.
In many areas, railroad rights-of-way are protected by electrical fencing along the tracks which will trip a red signal to iluminate if landslide activity occurs, or if boulders fall down from a hilllside.
I can't find La Conchita on "Topo Zone" and my railroad maps are at home -- is La Conchita directly on the Starlight route?
Posted by Michael Christiansen (Member # 3604) on :
As I will be travelling on the Starlight next week I called Amtrak today to check on the current status. The woman I dealt with initially had no idea that there even was a problem. It was only after a little arm twisting that she agreed to look into it for me. As of this morning the Starlight is not running from LA to San Luispo (sp??). Apparently it is still running north of SL. We shall see. -Mike
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
RRRich, yes,La Conchita directly on the Starlight route. More accurately called the Union Pacific RR, prior to tthe UP takeover was the grand old railroad Southern Pacific. A wonderful "Fallen Flag" that was vilified for years by its enemies, but was quite an interesting road for RR history buffs, tracking all the way back to the Mother Road of the West, the Central Pacific. I'm sure UP will rebuild the washed out line ASAP, but it is still a "rescue operation" there, as ppl are unaccounted for and still may be buried uder the mud.
Posted by JONATHON (Member # 2899) on :
The News is now sadly saying 4 Bodies found and some still "un acounted" for.
Put Rincon Point in Topozone and then go to the Rincon point in Ventura County. Follow the coast south{right} two maps and you will see Punta aka La Conchita.
Chris
[This message has been edited by chrisg (edited 01-11-2005).]
Posted by pismobum (Member # 2628) on :
The La Conchita slide has little or no effect on the Coast Route (other than emergency crews). The slide is a few hundred yards inland of the tracks. However, 2 mudflows are over the tracks and hwy 101 just west/north of the slide area (newscrews were on site for the mudflows when the slide hit which is how they got those action pix. Now 400' of mainline has been washed out at Somis (between Moorpark and Camarillo, i.e. between Simi Valley and Oxnard/Ventura).
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
The Amtrak website now has a service advisory posted. No Surfliners north of LA until at least Thursday. Starlight will begin and end at SLO. Bus service from LAX but not points between LA and SLO, e.g. Oxnard, Santa Barbara.
6 dead, 12 missing at La Conchita. It will be at least two more days before 101 reopens. Some 15,000 people commute from the south/east each day. The Condor Express Whale Watching boat was running a limited ferry service today.
Frank in COLD SBA.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Thanks a lot, Chris G -- I know exactly where Punta is, but did not know that it is also known as La Conchita.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Far more than just that. This from a Tuesday morning fill-in from the LA Service Unit -
· Helicopter inspection lined up Tuesday morning to inspect subdivision between Oxnard and Concepcion – Javier Sanchez, MTM, Pete Rodriquez, bridge inspector, Steve McMullen, geotechnical consultant. · MP 328.2 Gaviota – Main track out of service. Embankment failure caused by wave action and saturated subgrade. Sink is 30 feet long, 15 feet down, 1 foot from ties. Signal also washed down and was recovered. Notifications made for permits. Shannon and Wilson, geotechnical, Steve McMullen consultant will be on site Monday. High rail excavator, backhoe on site. Rip rap and base material being trucked to Surf. One air dump on hand. 12 air dumps by Roseville 8:24 p.m. Jimco contracting on site. Will shuttle rip rap from Surf to worksite. Loader at Surf and track hoe and dozer at site. · MP 332.2 – Gaviota - Embankment failure caused by wave action – 8 feet from ties, 75 feet long, 35 feet down. Starting to some alignment in this area. · MP 380.0 – Carpenteria – Mudslide, 30 feet by 4 feet on top of track. · MP 382 to MP 382.5 between Seacliff and Carpenteria - slides reported 2 ft deep across mainline and Highway 101. This area is at La Conchita and is the slide shown on CNN. May have lost some of the mainline in this area will be able to verify Tuesday morning. Currently not allowed into the site. Hirail excavator working location. · MP 384 to MP 384.5 Seacliff – landslide on top of rail · MP 384.7 – Seacliff – Mudslide on top of track – 20 feet by 4 feet. Corrected Sunday. · MP 387.7 to MP 388 Seacliff, Track out of line and washed out in 5-degree curve. · MP 392.6 Ventura - Embankment failure caused by wave action – 5 feet from ties, 3 locations from 25 and 50 feet in length. Moved boulders with track hoe from beach back up to slide. Shannon and Wilson to propose permanent repair. · MP 392.6 – Scouring behind north abutment at Ventura River bridge · MP 410.5 – water over track, 40 feet of side wash – repair Monday · MP 418.7 to MP 419.0 – many mudslides on top of track – about 100 cubic yards. Demo with two backhoes to clean out Monday. More mud has come down during the day. We have stopped work during the night and will resume tomorrow during daylight hours. · MP393.6 Ventura River Bridge has scouring around North abutment and water running through ballast north of the bridge.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
All in all, this is just turning out to be a bad winter for travel, be it by plane, car, or our favorite, train.
Posted by GrandmaLinda (Member # 3666) on :
Geesh, George, obviously you've never heard the song...."It never rains in So. California".... We build homes right on the bluffs for the view and never give a thought to the rain. In our defense, I heard this is the most rain we've had since like about 1880. It is definitely 1 yr. of rain in 15 days. Lighten up on us. (I also live on the water). Anyway, I'm a little south of Oceanside and the local news said Amtrak is only running between San Diego and Oceanside now. The news showed the mudslide practically on the tracks but perched precariously above is an eroding hillside and a multi story home or apartment house which looks like it could give way anytime. The engineers will make the decision but until the hillside and the building is stabilized, no choo choo train comin' south or goin' north. This could take a long time.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Chris G - WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think Union Pacific has some work cut out for them!!!
Posted by rY. (Member # 3528) on :
Looks like people are bailing out of this weekend's Starlight-- Amtrak called to offer me a sub $100 price on a "Roomette" upgrade for my Saturday return to Los Angeles (I'm in San Francisco attending Macworld right now).
How are they managing the equipment with the shortened route? Can they turn the trains somewhere near San Luis Obispo (I know this was a problem for the Central Coast Surfliner). Did a trainset get cut-off in Los Angeles when the slides hit? Will my sleeper upgrade turn out to be "Bedroom 4" on a Horizon consist?! :P
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
I know that one Surfliner trainset is parked at Goleta, or at least it was yesterday , 01/12/05.
I have a feeling it's going to be awhile before things are back to what passes as normal. CalTrans is now saying it will be sometime Saturday before 101 between Carpinteria and Ventura reopens. I will say that it was very nice driving north from Santa Barbara yesterday with significantly less truck traffic and less traffic in general.
The Ferry service is still operating 3-4 trips a day each way between SBA and VTA.
Frank in cloudy SBA
Posted by rY. (Member # 3528) on :
To borrow someone else's subject header- "well, that's that."
I got a call this evening from Amtrak informing me that the Starlight is now terminating in Oakland due to the "washout conditions" further South.
I'm being rerouted via the San Joaquin to Bakersfield, bus from Bakersfield to LA (so much for the cheap Sleeper upgrade! must have jinxed myself there)
Of course, this begs the question: what happens to passengers traveling to San Jose, Salinas, Paso Robles, and San Luis Obispo? Is this change due to the lack of servicing facilities south of Oakland?
There was an update on the Amtrak site today. LA originating/bound passengers are being transferred to/from the San Joaquins at Sacramento.
NARP reports that service disruptions on the coast line will continue until "at least" February 1. However, a friend who is an Amtrak engineer reports that the talk around the shop is more like sometime in March. Stay tuned.
------------------ "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience." -- Hyman Rickover The Del Monte Club Car
