RAILforum: union station name

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Posted by Michael Christiansen (Member # 3604) on :

So sometimes I'm not to quick on the uptake. I just realized today that every train station I will be spending time in, with the exception of Penn, is named Union. Is this related to Union Pacific? Or is there some other reason behind the same names?
-Mike

Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :

Michael, an excellent question and one that deserves the correct answer. A "Union" station served more than one railroad. A classic example is LAUPT (now LAUS) Los Angeles Union Passenger Station. It was formed with the cooperation of the Santa Fe, Union Pacific and Southern Pacific, in joint ownership. A Union Station eliminated the need for passengers to transit between different railroad stations across town to connect to other routes. Chicago at one time had SEVEN separate stations, I believe. It still has 3 or 4; CHI forum members can correct me if I am wrong.

[This message has been edited by Railroad Bob (edited 01-15-2005).]

Posted by JONATHON (Member # 2899) on :

You are Corect Railroad Bob, I think its great they keep the name "Union" even though Amtrak and Comuter Trains are in Charge

------------------
JONATHON D. ORTIZ
EMD455@Blue-Rail.com

Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :

When I was young, Minneapolis even had 2 stations. Union Station (built by James J. Hill, the Empire Builder), served Burlington, Northern Pacific, and Great Northern. It was torn down soon after Amtrak vacated for their large Amshack midway between Mpls and St. Paul. The famous Stone Arch Bridge, which Hill built just for access to Union Station, is now a major tourist attraction. Now a pedestrian and tourist trolley bridge, it follows an s-curve over the St.Anthony Falls of the Mississippi and Lock & Dam #1. The area is a center for upscale condos. It is also my favorite biking destination.

The Milwaukee Depot served the Milwaukee Road, Rock Island, Soo Line and other small railroads. It is still standing, and the trainshed is used as an ice rink in the winter. I believe all these lines went to the La Salle street station in Chicago.

Minneapolis-St.Paul (MSP)is one of the codes shared by air and rail. ABQ is also a lot easier to spell than Albuquerque.

[This message has been edited by TwinStarRocket (edited 01-16-2005).]

Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :

Well, "Union Station" is still an appropriate name if there are multiple users (Amtrak + commuter rail).

Most or all "union stations" were independent companies owned by some or all of the railroads serving the city. They were (and are -- some still exist, like Chicago Union Station Co.) analogues to terminal switching companies like Terminal Railroad Assn. of St. Louis (which also operated St. Louis Union Station, BTW) or the Belt Railway of Chicago (always freight-only).

For example, the controlling partners in Chicago's Union Station were the PRR and the Milwaukee Road. Burlington and others were tenants. In Washington, DC, the Washington Terminal Co. was owned by B&O and PRR. RF&P was a tenant, as was C&O.

Perhaps the last Union Station built was in New Orleans in 1956, finally consolidating operations that had been spread over (IIRC) three different railroad stations).

Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :

Never expected the day would come when I would need to correct Mr. Resor, but Chicago Union Station Company was owned 25% each by Rennsylvania, CB&Q, MILW, and Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne & Chicago. Chicago & Alton (GM&O) was a tennant. Since the "Fort Wayne' was a controlled subsidiary of the Pennsylvania, the "P-Road' effectively had a 50% interest in the Company. That is why the existing structure's architecture "most definitely' has New York Penn Station "overtones' to it.

On A-Day, Santa Fe accessed the facility as a tennant under provisions of the 1919 Agreement, as did the Norfolk & Western (Wabash commuter, METRA Southwest Service today) when Dearborn Station was finally closed circa 1973 (64 year old memory cells DO fade).

Under Amtrak ownership today and myself having been removed from the industry for almost 25 years, I know not to what the extent the 1919 Agreement remains in force.

An interesting point regarding the operating provisions of the Agreement is that costs were allocated by wheelage. That means a car riding on six wheel trucks bore a greater portion of the cost than did one on four wheel trucks.

[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 01-21-2005).]

Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :

Gilbert:

I stand corrected. I recall being told at some point that PRR and PFW&C had 25% shares, and for some reason I thought MILW owned the rest.

BTW, Chicago Union Station Co. still exists. I don't know how ownership is now divided; perhaps Amtrak got the PRR/Penn Central 50%, while Metra got the rest -- or maybe BNSF still owns the Q's share.

Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :

Amtrak owns CUSCO lock, stock, and railhead; METRA/NIRCRC and METRA/BNSF are both tennants.

As noted, I have no idea what provisions, if any, of the 1919 Agreement, remain in force.

Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :

New Orleans:

If I recall correctly, the opening date was 1953. The railroads were NO&NE (Southern), L&N, ICRR, MoPac?, T&P, T&NO (Southern Pacific), L&A (KCS) either 6 or 7. At one time GM&O came into New Orleans on the NO&NE, but not sure whether they still had passenger service at the time NOUPT opened. The reason for the (?) after MoPac is that the MoPac trains came in from Baton Rouge via trackage rights on the ICRR's Y&MV. Upon opening, L&N had the most trains, but ICRR probably carried the most people. Major trains were:
L&N: Crescent, Humming Bird, Pan American, Gulf Wind. They also had a commuter train.
Southern: Southerner, Pelican
ICRR: City of New Orleans, Panama Limited, Louisiane
L&A: Southern Belle
MoPac: don't recall names, but you could get a through sleeper to Los Angeles via ATSF west of Houston.
T&P: had a day train and a night train to Ft. Worth
SPRR: Sunset Limited

All trains terminated there previous to the Amtrak through Sunset Limited.

Do not recall the number of pre-Union Station stations, but think there were at least 4.

Memphis had two "union" stations. Both fronted on Calhoun Avenue two blocks apart, about 1/2 mile south of downtown. At Calhoun and Main was and is Central Station, built around 1916, owned by Illinois Central, tenants Frisco and Rock Island. It was and is an uninspired brick office building for the IC (offices now empty) with the waiting room on the 2nd floor. Very basic. Wood platforms, metal frame wood butterfly sheds, hand throw switches. Had 10 tracks. Always the busier station. Two track left, used by Amtrak. Refurbished recently.

Memphis Union Station was a beauty. At Calhound and Third, also built around 1916, also 10 tracks, concrete platforms, butterfly sheds, don't remember construction, power switches. Originally NC&St.L, L&N, Southern, MoPac, Cotton Belt. By early 60's, down to L&N, MoPac, Southern. Due to huge costs, they pulled out, Southern to their original 1830's Memphis and Charleston station, MoPac to a room in their freight house, and L&N to Central. A few years later the building was torn down and a Post Office sort center occupies the site. Tne original M&C station has also been demolished. Both were virtually crimes, not sure which was worst.

Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :

I certainly must concur with Mr.Harris that Memphis Central Station is a "typical IC" brick structure that resembles any of a number about the system. I think it is a 'dead ringer" for their one time Accounting Dept offices at 63rd and Dorchester in Chicago.

I think the building has been nicely reburbished. The stub tracks (I once boarded during 1962 #6's setout Sleeper parked on them) now afford platform level short-term parking and taxicab stand. I understand that condos are "in the works' for the vacated offices noted.

Oh and a ++++; the neighborhood appears (first hand obs) to be experiencing a renaissance - gotta get those condo prices up!!! Someday, maybe some aspiring young attorney in a John Grisham movie script (whoops, novel) will be cast living there.