Anybody remember riding the New York Central's 20th Century Limited from New York to Chicago? That was "CLASS" on rails! The on-board employees were especially nice and attentive, the sleeping compartments were great, clean and all in working condition, the food was great and served with "style" and the employees had a dignity and elegance. What a terrific train! Remember that ride?
Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
Pojon: it was a long time ago when I rode that train to Chicago from Grand Central. I was only a child traveling with my sister and mom. But I do remember the excitement of train travel I experienced because of the reasons you have mentioned. It was that experience which made me a lover of train travel. We did the transfer from LaSalle St. Station to Dearborn Station to catch the Superchief to Los Angeles. I believe our Pullman was transferred to that train where we entered the same car and the same room.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
THOSE were the days!
Posted by RRCHINA (Member # 1514) on :
And then we built the Interstate System and spent substantial monies for airports with the air Traffic control provided at no cost.
Yes those days were great and myself and family enjoyed them, but like the Ford Model T we have changed. Now we drive the Ford Escort or the new 500 and we do not dwell too long on what was once the accepted way to travel.
I would like the movies to be like those produced in the 40's, and 50's and the music to be as it was then. And our conversations, news reporting and culture to be more civilized. We cannot go back and so we must use our efforts make our current culture respectful of what once was, and hope that our newer generations can visulize the many great things which preceded them.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I probably made about six rides "bumper to bumper" on the Century during the late fifties and mid sixties.
I even once had an "all-Pullman' (really a misnomer as Central had withdrawn from the Pullman Company during the fifties) ride during January 1963, as the Coach and Sleeper sections were separated during the peak X-Mas travel period.
Class, what Class.
But lest we note, the Century never saw A-Day eve, or even the Penn Central merger (what would have the premier train been named? the "Twenty Cent Broad") as December 12, 1967 was the last run for both Century and Broadway.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
I never rode the 20th Century, but when I was young (late '50's) and living in Westchester County, my mother would often drive me to Harmon so I could watch the train change engines -- from one of those wonderful P-motors to three or four E-units.
Indeed, a class act, with the bouquet of flowers in the obs.
Yes, times change, and many more people travel now than did in the 1950s. But somehow the experience has cheapened with the increase in volume. No one dresses up to travel any more. My mother used to put me in a suit, and my sisters in dresses, when we caught the train to Florida (always riding Pullman).
Somehow, my recent round trip to West Palm Beach on Southwest just wasn't in the same league as a trip on the "Florida Special", even if it did take less than three hours each way rather than 24.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
AMC Movies has been airing North by Northwest great shots of Grand Central Terminal as he sneaks on to the 20th Century to Chicago. The Space under the old Vanderbilt Hotel where the 20th departed has been restored. Hey rresor my mother still tells me I should dress nicely when flying even if I'm going on vacation, "she says they might bump me up to 1st class" hasn't happened yet. Travel today just seems to be a part of the rush.
Posted by Railvt (Member # 1397) on :
I had one complete New York-Chicago trip on the CENTURY in September of 1966. Although it was only a little more than a year before the end and long after the NYC had become infamous for its purportedly anti-passenger stance, this was one of the best North American train trips I've ever taken (and my passenger rail lifetime mileage now exceeds 350,000 miles)!
Although I was a "Sleepercoach" passenger, the crew by then was welcoming all passengers to the main diner and the observation-lounge car. The consist was very interesting. There was a heavy-weight mail/baggare car, then four Budd stainless steel cars, a 52 seat coach, Grill Diner and 2 Sleepercoaches. Next came an all-Pullman built sleeper section; a twin-unit diner-lounge car--theoretically for the sleepers only, but actually open to all (even though the Grill Diner had a lower-priced menu for coach passengers). Finally six full sleepers and the wonderful round-end observation-lounge car, with its exceptionally large picture windows.
Treasured memories--the Red Carpet was still in use at boarding in Grand Central. In the observation car canapes were set out for all and there was an elegant cocktail menu with the full range of mixed drinks, wines, beer and soft drinks. The main diner offered three different menus at dinner--an extensive "Table D'hotel" card of full meals, an ala carte list with additional entrees and a light dinner/sandwich menu.
When seated at dinner women were given an orchid, while in the morning at breakfast I had a carnation placed in the lapel of my suit (yes I still dressed up automatically then on any long-distance train--but especially on the 20th CENTURY LIMITED!). The breakfast menu also featured both an extensive selection of complete meals and a long ala carte list including broiled lamb chops, steak and trout.
On-time performance was perfect throughout. Crews were formal, quiet and always cordial, but more like classic hotel staff--just an appropriate bit aloof. As a solo 20 year-old I was accorded very good service and never condescended to.
Oh if only I could go again. Only the SUPER CHIEF, the FLORIDA SPECIAL, and the DENVER and CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRs were equivilent in my pre-Amtrak trips. The BROADWAY LIMITED, in its all-Pullan guise was probably equal, but my first real ride on it was after the merger with the GENERAL--which cost the BWAY its observation car and at least some of its panache (the NYC kept the obs on when the coaches came). That too was a very good train, but not quite up to NYC 25.
I did have one ride on the BWAY from Penn Station to Paoli when it was still all-Pullman. Theoretically this was not possible, but if space was available on the day of departure the Pennsy would allow you to ride the BWAY to Paoli, Lancaster or Harrisburg by paying the full Parlor Car fare. You were given a roomette, but I sat in the lounge car and had a wonderful dinner in the diner (not as elaborate or "gourmet" a listing as on the CENTURY--but VERY good). As I did not spend the night I feel less able to evaluate, but what I encountered was a very nice train that was not quite as exceptional as either it's reputation or as NYC 25--even though the CENTURY had been carrying a few coaches by this time since 1956 . Service in the diner was superb, but the lounge car attendant was aloof and inattentive.
Sigh for the past. What was amazing about all of these trains was that such superb service was routinely provided night after night--long into the 1960s and the overall passenger train decline--and even on theoretically hostile roads like the Pensy and the NYC.
By 1967 the PRR/NYC situation was clearly inconsistent. For every CENTURY there were the wretched "plugs" like the NYC's diner and lounge-less DE WITT CLINTON, coach only without even a snack bar New York to Buffalo, but on the services they still cared about a remarkable amount of the grand era was still alive even in 1966/67.
Carl Fowler Rail Travel Center
Posted by CHANGEATJAMAICA (Member # 3737) on :
In the '50s when I was a boy growing up in Queens I'd take the subway to Manhattan and like a child at the candy counter look at all the wonderful things in the city. Aside from the mandatory trip to the Rootes Motors showroom on Park Avenue to dream about one day sitting inside an XK120 or Mark VII "Saloon" every trip included a stop at Grand Central and look at the 20th Century Limited. When the gate was open, there would usuually be an agent to bar trespassers...but what guard could not let a boy walk down the red carpet with the grey 20th Century logo and pass by the windows of that great stainless steel beauty. I'd see the passenger servicing folks getting the great train ready for it's trip to Chicago. I never rode the Century, but I was mesmerized by it just standing at the station. NB I never did get a Jaguar, rather my first car was VW; nor did I ride the Century but I have ridden the Lake Shore a couple of times. I guess I was born a little too late. Rodger
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
These are great stories,
I would love to here some stories about what the stations where like. Does anyone have any memories of boarding a train or just visiting the origional Pennsylvania Station in New York City where the Broadway Limited departed.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
I do! Again, those were the days to see the sun stream through those grand tall windows in the old Penn Station! To look up at the ceiling was quite a thrill for a kid just as it was to see the constellations of stars in the original Grand Central Terminal! Oh man, if those days were only back! The excitement of watching, for a kid, passengers entering the gate to the 20th Century Limited--the red carpet, etc. In the film, "North by North West" it's always a thrill to see it on film! I miss those days.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
Thank you all for sharing your memories and big thank you to rrsor for starting a new post for station memories. I was talking recently with an archetect about the old Penn Station and another person asked why would New York City need two Railroad Stations? Yeah ya wonder. Of course both stations are filled to capacity and then some though they can never replace what they destroyed the Commuter areas have been cleaned up, the Amtrak area is well kind of an out of date Sci-Fi movie set. There are plans to move Amtrak across the street to the US Post Office designed by the same architects of the Origional Pennsylvania Station, but it seems this has been stalled.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
Grand Central Terminal is a great and exquisite example of almost an art-deco style of architecture like the Chrysler Building and the Empire State Building--all in the same neighborhood in mid-manhattan. The old Penn Station was another masterpiece of grand architecture--the new one a very mediocre station in the bowels of a tall building. When I was a kid in the 40s and 50s it was a true treat to ride the subway from Brooklyn to go to Manhattan just to see the two stations and to see the many people frequenting the stations--a true sea of people going back-and-forth to the many trains. The main use of Grand Central is for the Metro north and commuter trains since all the Amtrak trains heading for up-state New York were moved to Penn Station.
Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
Grand Central .....many a time I walked down the platform to board a train. The steam rising from the sides of the coaches. I also remember the room where everyone waited to see which track a train was arriving on. Then when it was posted they rushed to that gate. The gate was opened opened and the headlight of the electric locomotive came into view as it slowly approached the end of the track. Finally the train reached the end of the line and the air brakes shouted through the bowels of the terminal. Then passengers began arriving through the opened gate.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
The amount of people going through Grand Central as well as the PATH and LIRR areas at Penn Station shows how crucial to the area. It is the commuter lines that have kept these magnificient buildings thriving. A city with a Great Railroad Station puts it above the others. On some days the AMTRAK conductor at the Philadelphia 30th Street Station will call the gate and the trains name in a loud clear voice without the help of electronic amplification.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Actually, Mr. Tanner, the position to which you address was known as Usher in PRR days. Amtrak, it is simply known as Station Service Specialist.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
Oh, man, those were the days! I miss that real railroading--days of glamour and true excitement! I even used to love those somewhat surly but half-way friendly pullman car porters and dining car men.
Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
I enjoy arriving and departing Philadelphia 30th station and Washington DC Union station. What a disappointment when I arrive in my home station...Penn Station under Madison Square Garden.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
Be glad it's still there! With the new BUSH federal budget proposal maybe all the great stations will become parking lots! What a loss!
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
Recently I visited Chicago, not by train, sorry I only had 2 days, from CT. But first thing I did was to visit Union Station. Walking west over the Jackson ave bridge I first saw the Union Station enterence over an office building, oh no I think it met a Penn Station fate! But no they have saved the origional building. The Great Hall is incrediable though it seems everyone seems to shuttled through the cramped waiting rooms towards the tracks. The Capitol Limited was bording, a large group of Amish where boarding. I wish I'll have to find some pictures of the station during its hey day. Can any other building give you a feeling of history and where you can walk through time and in the footsteps of the ghosts of the famous, infamous and the teeming masses that have passed thru these great buildings.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
Union Station in LA is also great! So is Grand Central in NY and the great Toronto Union Station--all examples of the great days of railroading and magnificent architecture in grand stations.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
If nothing the old railroad barrons did leave us some magnificient structures. Montreal also has a beautiful station in the center of the city. I am glad they have returned the bus connection from St Albans. They are tough buildings to mantain and cities have to have the ability and will to keep them up. Although these stations had Long Distant Travel in mind when they built them the commuters are what keeps the building living.
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
The great thing about these amazing structures is that they have had the ability to create a culture around themselves, and to survive (for the most part). Besides commuter trains and Amtrak, stores, restaurants, and businesses have turned these buildings into attractions themselves, and this is what have kept the terminals in Jacksonville, St. Louis, and Cincinnati still alive. Note: All the victims of the Amtrak era, such as Penn Station didn't have the time to allow this community develop around them, and thus suffered the axe. I can say with relative certainty that Washington, Chicago, and Los Angeles Union Terminals will never depart, even if passanger service came to an end.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
It's commuter train use that saves all those stations!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr North American notes--
All the victims of the Amtrak era, such as Penn Station didn't have the time to allow this community develop around them, and thus suffered the axe
Penn Station, as in "Old Penn" was gone by 1964. In fact, visitors to the New York World's Fair had to "walk the planks" of new construction. There are those within the architectural community that consider the building's destruction as one of the greatest travesties in Western Civilization.
Fortunately, I had namy an occasion to ride trains, commuter and intercity, from "Old Penn".
Therefore, Old Penn's loss predated Amtrak by some 7 years.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
Nothing beats the magnificence of the Old Penn Station--nothing like it inside and out! It's destruction really was a travesty of western civilization--I agree with Gilbert Norman. Some of the outside stone-work still exists in a junk yard in New Jersey--the columns, etc. What a loss!
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
Gilbert, many thanks for the link to that historical look at the old Penn Station---brings it all back!
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
Been Reading "The End of the Penn Central" along with books on Grand Central and Penn Station. Seems what kept the NYCentral viable and Grand Central becomming the main Station in Manhattan was because of the way the Real Estate developed. The NYCentral buried the tracks on Park Ave. The area developed North South and East from GCT's Hub. At the Western Post of 34th Street the area has never really fully developed especially west of the station. It has been 95 years and the rail yards have not been touched. Today they debate on building a Domed Football Statdium. In the 80's it was building another Madison Square Garden. In the 70's they built a minor league convention center is to small. In the 1950's they offered the same piece of property to the owner of the NY Baseball Giants to build a Baseball Stadium on the Rail Yards. Location, Location, Location.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
I appreciate the thank-you for the "station memories" thread. I quoted Thomas Wolfe (from "Look Homeward Angel") about Penn Station's concourse, "There are few buildings large enough to hold the sound of time".
As a boy, I passed through the station many times when we made the annual family trip to Florida (usually on the Seaboard until ACL revived the Florida Special in the mid-1960s). In those days, I thought all railroads of any consequence were double track, and the important ones were electrified. I also thought that every passenger train had separate lounges and diners for Pullman and coach passengers (as ACL and SAL always did).
I also got into Grand Central a lot, since we lived on an NYC commuter line in Westchester and used to take the train to GCT to visit my father (who worked in the former NYC building at 233 Park Avenue!). I sometimes would see the 20th Century preparing to depart, as my father and I ran for the train home.
Never rode the train, but at least I have the memories...
Posted by stlboomer (Member # 2028) on :
A bit of Penn Station still exists in Kansas City:
The Union Station in Toronto is also a true example of railroad magnificence---very large main concourse, very high ceilings, etc. A pleasure to walk around in it!
Posted by dilly (Member # 1427) on :
quote:Originally posted by stlboomer: A bit of Penn Station still exists in Kansas City
Bits of New York's Pennsylvanian Station still exist in Penn Station itself. See them here:
My "golden memories" stem from the era most purists hate: the 1950s and 60s, as the New York Central struggled to make Grand Central pay for its own upkeep by filling the Main Concourse with advertising.
The enormous Kodak "Panorama" photo mural on the East Balcony. . . the giant clock face . . . the displays of the newest Detroit autos. . . I loved looking at all that stuff whenever my family waited to catch an overnight train to the Midwest.
Although the building has now been restored to its "original" state, I actually miss all the old advertising clutter. On the other hand, I could easily live without the absurdly suburban "marketplace" gift concessions that set up shop in the Vanderbilt Room several times a year.
At any rate, The Municipal Arts Society sponsors a FREE tour of Grand Central Terminal every Wednesday at 12:30 PM. If you're in the neighborhood, meet their tour guide at the central information booth on the Main Concourse. Afterward, head downstairs to the Oyster Bar, sit down at the lunch counter, and order a bowl of clam chowder. Then take a train somewhere, even if it's only to New Haven.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
You have it, Dilly! That's the way to go!
Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
The Oyster Bar...now that's a New York legend. I remember the Kodak mural. That was one of the first things I looked for when I entered the station. Of course the next and BEST thing I looked for were those New York Central trains!
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
Seems many of us came of age during Grand Centrals days as billboard. During those 70's and early 80's the only clean and beautiful piece of the old station was the Kodak Panorama. The restrooms were hideous in the subasement and anyone remember the period of the "Pay Toilets?" The Vanderbilt Room was a flop house. Today it is large enough to hold a Sqaush Tournament, it did last summer. Has big screen and seats to watch Wimbledon. If you miss the Auto's the 30th Street Station in Philadelphia still puts some auto displays in its Main Hall. The New/Old Station is great I just hope the city can keep it up. (The Men's Room can use another sand blast of hot water.)
Posted by dilly (Member # 1427) on :
Unfortunately, if you look very carefully, parts of the "reborn" Grand Central are already starting to deteriorate. The Terminal interior has become noticeably dirtier. The once-pristine interior restoration work, which requires regular upkeep by people who know what they're doing, is now only passively maintained at best. The MTA seems far more concerned with figuring out ways to squeeze in more retail space.
But that's typical of New York. The city and state pump billions of dollars into rebuilding parks, schools, and other public structures. Then they fail to maintain them properly and, within a decade or two, it all ends up right back where it started.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
I agree Dilly! But I miss those days of the giant Kodak photos---always a thrill to see the pictures so big and brilliant like a giant transparency and then of course the trains themselves. Wow! I spent many a time just walking across the main concourse to "taste" the station, see the people, see the Kodak sign and purposely I would stop and ask the info people in the center desk some schedule question and pick up some timetables. No trip to Manhattan was complete without that before I got into the subway to go home to Brooklyn. Living in Florida I am so far removed from those pleasureable days! Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
Trip to Richmond VA. While I was visiting the city I toured the cities two revitalized and reborn train stations. I arrived at the newly opened Main Street Station which looks great. That night the station had been rented for a wedding reception. The architecture is so different from other stations in both the exterior and the passanger flow is odd for a large city station with commuters having to walk up to the 2nd floor www.rmaonline.org being in a flood plane it was needed.
I took the trip out to the west side to see the Virginia Science Museum. I was interested to see if any of the museums former life had been preserved. Happily it is! The Union (Broad Street) Staion looked as if it could be refitted for train service in less then a weekend. Unlike the Main Street Station this is the Washington and Chicago Union Stations. What was nice is that they kept the train signage as well as the train platforms. Like any other southern growth city, the city planners are facing traffic problems and trying to link cities and suburbs, there is talk of exending the Acela to Richmond but as of know its just talk. But there really is no excuse for not having a commuter line between Richmond and Washington DC. They are then looking to connect Richmond to Charlotte nc with more then just one train a day.
Posted by D. David (Member # 4055) on :
Lest we forget "On the Twentieth Century" with Lombard and Barrymore, and Crosby singing at the train in Grand Central Station in "Goin Hollywood"
These inspired me to look into a cross country rail adventure. I still have my hopes up, even if it won't be as luxurious.
quote:Originally posted by Tanner929: AMC Movies has been airing North by Northwest great shots of Grand Central Terminal as he sneaks on to the 20th Century to Chicago. The Space under the old Vanderbilt Hotel where the 20th departed has been restored. Hey rresor my mother still tells me I should dress nicely when flying even if I'm going on vacation, "she says they might bump me up to 1st class" hasn't happened yet. Travel today just seems to be a part of the rush.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
A cross country trip would be an adventure. Reading many of the journals here Train travel is not a exact scheduling science. I see that most train travel is done during the summmer. I wonder if many of the rail fans are teachers or proffessors and have the summer off. I guess I'll have to wait to retire.
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