The SILVER STAR s/b did something I had not experienced on any Amtrak trip before.
After leaving Jacksonville and Orlando, and dropping off passengers at Lakeland we proceeded to Tampa and then 'backed up' quite some distance into the station (the tracks actually dead ended at barriers at the back of the Tampa Amtrak building). But the crazy part was that after picking up passengers in Tampa it re-traced it's exact steps of the last 29 MILES back to Lakeland. The s/b Silver Star route had to overlap 29 miles of track, then pick up passengers in Lakeland (where it was just a hour and a half ago), then proceed on its route south to Miami. And looking at the schedule closer the n/b Silver Star does the same overlap. Lakeland was a crazy kind of (D) drop off only AND (P) pick up only station.
Are there other single Amtrak routes that overlap such as this to detour to a station on its route? Backtracking?
Also, what other Amtrak Stations are you aware of that the tracks actually dead-end in a city (no tracks AT ALL continue past the station).
OR
The train MUST 'back in' so that when it departs and continues its route it leaves 'locomotive first'.
Posted by RRCHINA (Member # 1514) on :
Tracks ending at the station, or terminal, are fairly common. LAX being a significant example.
I recall others before AMTRAK but will leave it to some of our correspondents to name those still active in addition to LAX.
Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
Grand Central Terminal? I think there is a loop track. Amtrak does not have service there anymore.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
In Washington the tracks end at the station.Likewise Chicago Union Station
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
In addition to the above dead-end stations: New Orleans Denver*
Guessing, since I've never been there: Miami
Possibly include Chicago since most tracks dead-end with only one platform track and 1-2 other tracks passing right through.
*Denver used to have a stub track, presumably just for engines to detach, roll forward, switch tracks, then run round the train. I'm not sure even that is still there since all the redevelopment.
Geoff M.
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Boston, both North and South terminals
Posted by Grandma Judy (Member # 3278) on :
Actually in Chicago there is a thru track on the extreme east side of the terminal.
Posted by abefroman329 (Member # 3986) on :
quote:Originally posted by train lady: In Washington the tracks end at the station.Likewise Chicago Union Station
Washington has several thru tracks.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geoff M: Guessing, since I've never been there: Miami
Geoff M.
Miami was another oddity, in that after de-training, the train continued south on a giant 'loop track' of sorts then came back to the station with the engine in front. Hadnt seen that before either...:-) The Miami Amtrak Station is way up in North Miami so I guess it could do that.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
This is a first, Mr. Dwmwnc, where one Amtrak train has stopped twice at the same station and is a result of choosing to route both surviving trains, after the Palmetto was discontinued, via the ACL and Orlando.
The Palmetto was routed via the SAL through well populated and growing communities such as Gainesville and Ocala and upon reaching Coleman, was routed over a "hodgepodge" of ACL lines, before reaching the ACL "main" to the West of Lakeland. Leaving Tampa, the route is unchanged using the ACL to Auburndale (13 miles East of Lakeland) where the SAL is joined for the trip to Miami.
So actually the "doubleback' is not from Lakeland to Tampa, but rather Auburndale to Tampa, or 42 miles, rather than the 29 you note.
What would be of interest is will Amtrak sell a Lakeland to Lakeland ONE WAY "railfan excursion" using either 91 or 92, but not both.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by North American Railroader: Boston, both North and South terminals
I always wondered why these two sations were'nt somehow connected by rail, or why the tracks dont keep going. I often noticed in planning trips to Maine that you have to get off in Boston South Bay and proceed independently to the North Terminal.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: This is a first, Mr. Dwmwnc, where one Amtrak train has stopped twice at the same station and is a result of choosing to route both surviving trains, after the Palmetto was discontinued, via the ACL and Orlando.
The Palmetto was routed via the SAL through well populated and growing communities such as Gainesville and Ocala and upon reaching Coleman, was routed over a "hodgepodge" of ACL lines, before reaching the ACL "main" to the West of Lakeland. Leaving Tampa, the route is unchanged using the ACL to Auburndale (13 miles East of Lakeland) where the SAL is joined for the trip to Miami.
So actually the "doubleback' is not from Lakeland to Tampa, but rather Auburndale to Tampa, or 42 miles, rather than the 29 you note.
What would be of interest is will Amtrak sell a Lakeland to Lakeland ONE WAY "railfan excursion" using either 91 or 92, but not both.
WOW! Great information here. And the 'doubleback' of 42 miles is stunning.
I can imagine asking 'Julie' for a Lakeland-Lakeland ONEWAY ticket...she would blow a circuit...:-)
I also wondered why Amtrak chose not to continue the 'Silver Palm' service. At least it could have continued on its old course and dead ended in Tampa.
Or even split over to Atlanta via Raleigh and Charlotte, then down to Jacksonville and Tampa.
Three trains a day from NYC to Florida would have been nice. On this last trip both directions the Silver Star was booked solid...however I do see several 'Hot Deals' from RGH-MIA on the Silver Services coming up that I will be taking advantage of too.
And after taking this ride it seems that Florida is one state that could do well with an Intrastate Commuter Rail service. Wonder whats holding them back?
THANKS!
Posted by HeartlandExpress (Member # 3386) on :
HIGH SPEED RAIL AMENDMENT REPEALED - On November 2, 2004, the citizens of Florida voted to repeal the High Speed Rail Amendment to the Florida Constitution that was enacted in November of 2000.
quote:Originally posted by HeartlandExpress: HIGH SPEED RAIL AMENDMENT REPEALED - On November 2, 2004, the citizens of Florida voted to repeal the High Speed Rail Amendment to the Florida Constitution that was enacted in November of 2000.
It branches off to TONS of other train info too that I never knew about...
even when I linked from the first highlighted word 'AMTRAK' in the text it turned out a volume of information that will take me DAYS to go through.
I can also plug in the name of an Amtrak route and presto, a book of information...very cool!
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Boston South Station / North Station:
Yes, both are stubs. At one point as part of the "Big Dig" there was supposed to be a connection between them to permit through running. While it would not do a lot for the "long distance" trains it would have been of great benenfit to Boston area commuter service. This rail part was dropped to save money.
St. Albans VT This is not a stub. It is a terminal only because it is the last station in Vermont. In the days of the Montrealer / Washingtonian it was a brief pause for the through trains between Washington - New York - Montreal.
Oaklahoma City ATSF station likewise is a through station with a pause and then pull on through in the days of through service between Chicago and Texas.
Memphis Central station is a through station for Amtrak as it was for the Illinois Central trains in the past, but for all others it was a stub. In fact, Frisco through trains pulled past on their east-west oriented main then backed around the wye to enter the north facing station. True for trains in both directions. That ended before Amtrak, with the last train being in December 1967. The beautiful but long since demolished to make way for a post office sort center Memphis Union Station was also a stub end station. It was located on ly two blocks from Central Station and faced the same street. (The common local practice was to refer to Central as "Grand Central", but the the name on the station clearly never included the word Grand.)
Somebody else will have to tell us about Newport News VA and Portland ME.
Posted by MDRR (Member # 2992) on :
Newpport News is not. The station is built parallel to the under utilized yard in NPN.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: Has anyone ever been to these station to know if they are DEAD ENDS:
Portland Maine Newport News Virginia OK City OK St Albans VT
Oklahoma City trackage is not dead-end. The station faces the street. The former Santa Fe mainline is elevated through downtown and passes behind and above the station. Until 1979 Amtrak's Chicago-Kansas City-Oklahoma City-Ft. Worth-Houston 'Lone Star' called here.
Denver did still have the 'escape stub' in place so that an engine could pull a train into the station and then run around the train when I was there in July. The thing that surprises me is how far down the platform they stop the 'California Zephyr' in Denver. The rear coach is spotted short of the ramp going down to the station. Seems to me that they would make the south end staircase a ramp as well and use one ramp to board coach passengers, the other for sleeper passengers.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
I was also a bit taken aback by the conditons of some of the stations I have been through lately. Orlando's station badly needed and exterior makeover (even a whitewash paint job would help) and Tampa's station had huge chucks of peeling paint everwhere in the interior waiting areas and rooms. The Tampa platfrom was very shabby looking.
Some of the platforms along the 'Silver Star's route had the roofing blown off by hurricanes last year and has not been repaired so people were waiting in the rain.
It is a shame that some states let there Amtrak stations deteriorate and put so much funding into our ever increasing and overburden highway systems.
I saw a repport the other day on NBC nighlty news saying that we should let the air carriers go bankrupt and go under so that the government wont keep pumping BILLIONS of dollars into them that will never be recovered.
Has anyone else been to an Amtrak station lately where the conditions were badly deteriorating or beyond your belief?
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
I agree with you about Orlando, I was there a few weeks ago, and it is just as you stated. A little on the inside, there was peeling on the roof, and the bathrooms aren't the best ever, but the outside could use a major renovation. Maricopa has a nice, new station, they just need to get a hold of the bug problem. While I was waiting there, I saw cockroaches, beetles, and spiders, all over. Not exactly the most attractive aspect to potential riders.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. DMWNC notes:
I saw a report the other day on NBC Nighlty News saying that we should let the air carriers go bankrupt and go under so that the government wont keep pumping BILLIONS of dollars into them that will never be recovered
Monday morning seems to be "prime time" for the announcement of corporate activity such as bankruptcies, mergers, acquisitions, and managerial "shake ups". There is one major air carrier "out there' that is reported to be in "mighty shaky straits".
Tune in tomorrow to your favorite morning TV news to find out if anything has happened.
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
I just received a letter from Ed Adams, COO of the City of Albuquerque, about Amtrak's station there. {I wrote them a letter with pictures back in May.}
They seem to be blaming Amtrak for not fixing up the station. The City wants Amtrak to fit in with all the new construction around them {New Intermodal Transportation Center & new Greyhound Bus station}. The City's "new" ATC II project is funded by the City, but they don't seem to want to fund Amtrak's station.
Aren't there some Federal funds available for refurbishing stations?
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
The worst condition I have seen a station is was, I believe, in 1999 on the Sunset Ltd through Lafayette, Louisiana. The station had BURNED DOWN!!!! I haven't been back through there since then, but did that happen in 1999, and has the station been rebuilt yet?
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: Aren't there some Federal funds available for refurbishing stations?
Yes, but they don't just fall in your lap. It's called mathching funds. North Carolina had used a lot of federal money to improve stations, but the state has put in money, developed plans, etc. If the state or city doesn't start the process and put up some money, nothing will ever happen.
George
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by George Harris: [QB] Boston South Station / North Station:
St. Albans VT This is not a stub. It is a terminal only because it is the last station in Vermont. In the days of the Montrealer / Washingtonian it was a brief pause for the through trains between Washington - New York - Montreal.
That right of way is part of what was once the Central Vermont Railroad and is now the New England Central (or something like that). In any event the line ran from Montreal to New London, CT and crossed over Lake Champlain at Rouses Point, NY on a wooden bridge that was a good 600 yards long. I believe that bridge is currently unpassable, which effectively makes St. Albans the end of the line.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I can recall crossing the bridge noted by Mr. Black during August 1956 with steam on the head of the Montrealer.
Even back then, speed was 10mph or less; no surprise if it has been embargoed today.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Mr. DMWNC notes:
I saw a report the other day on NBC Nighlty News saying that we should let the air carriers go bankrupt and go under so that the government wont keep pumping BILLIONS of dollars into them that will never be recovered
There is one major air carrier "out there' that is reported to be in "mighty shaky straits".
Tune in tomorrow to your favorite morning TV news to find out if anything has happened.
------------------------------
I was surprised to hear it was DELTA AIRLINES, who according to CNN Money Matters has alone lost a staggering 10 BILLION (yes, that with a 'B') dollars since 2001, and is set to make no profits for the remainder of 2005, adding to its red ink. The single largest loosingest air carrrier since 2001, with more government money pumping into this dry well.
Let them go. Just imagine what Amtrak could do with 10 BILION dollars.
Imagine....
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
For quite some time, I too have wondered about these billion dollar loans that the government has shelled out to "private" carriers I might add!
Is anyone here under the misguided impression that any of these air carriers will pay this money back?
I'm surprised Mr. Mineta doesn't fly around the country at taxpayers expense and visit the home terminals of these air carriers, talk about poor service, and demand the money back with interest.
Ooops, I forgot, by shelling out this money the Federal Government is saying "you have to fly" and there should be no other options!
I say let 'em go under...with thousands inconvenienced, including some senators and congressman, perhaps the discussion will start about a "balanced" transportation system. Again, I'm not holding my breath.
Sorry my rant mode is off now! grrrrr!
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
There is a very good article in the Sept issue of 'TRAINS' magazine if anyone is interested that is on AMTRAK and issues of funding, both matching and government subsidies, etc. Covers issues too like Highway funding vs Amtrak funding, bailing out the airlines, Amtrak cross-country services and states that don't 'pony-up' will be left out, some Amtrak services that should die, etc. It was quite eye opening for me, at least...
There was an interesting Letter in the front from a 'Trains' reader saying why Amtrak should die that was pointed.
Very interesting reading.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by TBlack: [QUOTE]That right of way is part of what was once the Central Vermont Railroad and is now the New England Central (or something like that). In any event the line ran from Montreal to New London, CT and crossed over Lake Champlain at Rouses Point, NY on a wooden bridge that was a good 600 yards long. I believe that bridge is currently unpassable, which effectively makes St. Albans the end of the line.
Checked the New England Central web site and its lit of interchange points includes Canadian National at East Alburg VT. Since East Alburg, despite its name, is on the west side of Lake Champlain, this suggests that the bridge is still in service. Even if it were not, it is about 15 miles or so north of St. Albans, so the bridge out of service would not necessarily make St. Albans the northernmost point on the railroad. The headquarters of the NEC is in St. Albans VT.