I recently made what I thought would be a decent national timetable for Amtrak service, and I just thought that I'd share some of the changes I would make. Please note that the trains I list below do not include any corridor trains, whether in the Northeat, Michigan, Midwest, California, or Northwest. Also, I took into account Amtrak's constrained equipment roster, and thus eliminated some trains to provide for the necessary equipment required for additions. However, not a single line was eliminated, so all current stations retain service. I also have all of the schedules to go along with each train, but posting them would take forever, so I'll just list the trains and a few intermediate points. If you are interested in the actual schedule of any of the trains, just say so, and I'll post a basic timetable. Finally, not all of the station abbreviations may be correct, so just go along with the general direction. Here's my list: 1/2 Sunset Limited NOL-HOS-SAS-ELP-TUS-PHX-LAX 3/4 American Zephyr NOL-DAL-FTW-DEN-BIL-SPK-SEA/PDX 5/6 Texas Eagle CHI-STL-LTR-DAL-FTW-AUS-SAS 7/8 Southwest Chief CHI-KSC-ALB-FLG-LAX 9/10 California Zephyr CHI-OMA-DEN-SLC-SAC-OAK 11/12 Empire Builder CHI-MIL-MIN-SPK-SEA/PDX 13/14 Coast Starlight VAN-SEA-PDX-OAK-LAX 15/16 Heartland Flyer OKC-FTW 17/18 Laker DUL-MIN 19/20 City of New Orleans / City of Miami* CHI-MEM-NOL-MOB-JAX-ORL-MIA
*City of Miami runs 3 days a week, substituted by the City of New Orleans on off days. The City of Miami runs on a one night, two day schedule, while the City of New Orleans runs on a day schedule.
This train runs as a combination, the Auto Train section only runs from Sanford to Lorton, while the Champion continues to either Washington or Tampa. This train makes limited stops only between Sanford and Lorton, stopping only at the stations listed, thus maintaining the current schedule of the Auto Train as posted by Amtrak. Beyond these points, the Champion makes more local stops. This allows for a second Northeast to Orlando connection, since the Silver Star was rerouted back to its former line.
IMPORTANT NOTES: -Most convenient connections you can think of, are in the schedules (ex. City of Miami/American Zephyr) -Most trains run daily, with exception of the Sunset Limited, American Zephyr, City of Miami, and George Washington; which are thrice weekly. -The Palmetto is a day only run, and connects both ways in Charlotte with the Crescent. -Deleted trains include the Ethan Allen Express, Piedmont, and Cardinal; however, all of their routes are still completely covered. -Local corridor trains in the Northeast, Michigan, Midwest, California, and Northwest are not listed, this includes shorter runs such as the Hoosier State, etc.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Post your sunset time table. I'm curious at the times you hit the big metro. And does your sunset train go to Baton Rouge or keep the same Lake Charles/Lafayette southern route?
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Below is a basic schedule of the Sunset Lmtd, it keeps the Lafayette route, however, the American Zephyr (New Orleans to Seattle/Portland) would serve Baton Rouge. Also, I'm only including the departure time, since most of these cities are refueling stops, they have anywhere from a twenty minute to 2 hr 30 min stop (in the case of San Antonio).
This train has EB/WB connections at NOL with the City of Miami, at SAS with the Texas Eagle, and a NB connection with the Coast Starlight at LAX. All of these connections allow for an aprrox 3 hr layover (provided the Sunset is late, of course that will never happen The LAX connection only provides and hour layover, so I probably wouldn't rely on that if this were the actual schedule. However, the Coast Starlight connects easily with the SW Chief, CZ, Empire Builder, and American Zephyr; so I can't argue.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I like many of your ideas......particularly that of an additional Northeast - Florida train that A) combines with the Auto-Train and B) makes limited stops between Lorton and Sanford.
In today's mail I received a copy of the original May 1, 1971 Amtrak timetable (courtesy of eBay!). The running times and train 'calling hours' at most major cities seems to be much better than what we have right now.
David Pressley
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
North, I think you took my schedule for the sunset limited westbound from a post last month. However our eastbound schedule is totally different. On my schedule I put the 12am-5am travel times between TUC and ELP, and in N.O.
Your American Zephyr is similar to another route I did. My route differed that it goes NO-BTR-Galveston-HOS-Bryant/college station-DAL-FTW-DEN-BIL-SPK-EDM.
The train would need engines at both ends going to all those dead end stations;NO, Galveston, DEN, BIL, EDM.
I think including Houston, Galveston, Bryant/college station(Texas A&M) on a snow skiing route would keep the train full during the winter. Vice-versa for the summer as Galveston Beaches/cruise ships would draw northern population to the Gulf.
I chose Edmonton versus SEA/PDX because you can transfer to the empire builder at SPK. Plus Edmonton msa +1 million would help keep the train full.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Wait a minute North. Something is wrong with your eastbound schedule. You have ELP 11:40 AM then SAS at 5:30 AM. Did you mean PM for SAS.
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Thats the right schedule, currently, Amtrak takes 16 hours from departure at El Paso to departure at San Antonio. In reality, going EB my Sunset Lmtd would arrive at 9:30 PM (it departs at 12 AM) and WB it arrives at 3:10 AM. However, of course, there is the two hour layover for interchange with the Texas Eagle. My Sunset Lmtd. schedule is two hours longer, 18 hours instead of 16. However, unlike how Amtrak pads the schedule by providing long stopovers at stations, such as 44 min in El Paso, 45 min in Houston, and 6 hrs 30 min in New Orleans; I padded the schedule between enroute, to provide for realtime layovers at sidings, etc. Generally, my layovers at stations were anywhere from 15 min to 30 min. Overall, my schedule is 10 min. longer than Amtrak's current schedule, however, the largest attributing factor to this, is the fact that my train goes off the mainline into downtown Phoenix, unlike the current system of avoiding the city.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
Impressive indeed!!! I love the idea of service from CLT to Florida but it should also have to go through Atlanta too to make it truly cost effective, and since there is no current service at all from a really major city in the SE like ATL-Florida without detouring (what feels like) 'cross-country' through NOL or RGH it would be greatly used.
However, as a longtime resident of North Carolina I would also like to make adjustments to your listings as follows:
The CAROLINIAN must still must have originating and terminus service in Charlotte since it is the largest city in our state. The 'Carolinian' provides northbound service to the major cities up and down the major I-85 corridor in our state, and since it's MORNING service is so heavily used out of CLT going NE on a route not covered by the 'Crescent' (i.e.thru RGH our state capital in the a.m.) taking this away would be quite a mess. Connecting service in SAL (twice daily) to Ashville is already in the works from Salisbury and set to begin in 2008. Winston-Salem has connecting bus service to the 'Carolinian' and 'Piedmont'.
The PIEDMONT offers the only morning service "down" the very busy I-85 corridor between our state capital and our 'banking' capital and largest city. Since the 'Carolinian' goes north from CLT in the a.m., and the 'Piedmont' south from RGH in the a.m. this is the only morning service that connects these two major cities in our state. The 'Piedmont' also provides the only evening service from CLT-RGH and is desperatley needed. The 'Piedmont' is heavily subsidized by the state of North Carolina and need not be a financial burden on Amtrak to continue its service to our citizens.
Rename the new 'Palmetto' that you have originating in CLT since Palmetto is the state tree of South Carolina, hence its name for the NY-charleston service. Maybe rename it the 'Tarheel'. The current 'Crescent' comes thru CLT at roughly 2am so having the newly mamed 'Tarheel' connect with passengers coming off the 'Crescent' would unfortunately have those passengers waiting 4-5 hours in the deep middle of the night for a connection. Better to have them connect 'timewise' in Atlanta on the 'Tarheel'?
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Some very good suggestions. I am already thinking about rerouting the 'Palmetto' through Atlanta (for some reason I hadn't thought about that). As for the name, I think I will change (but not to the tarheel, good name, just I'm a Duke fan!) I was thinking of something like the Palmland or Sunland; but probably something even more different, Peach Queen would probably be the best. As for the Carolinian and Piedmont. I originally dropped the Piedmont because I wasn't sure of equipment limitations. However, I just finished by train by train consists, and it looks like I would have plenty of equipment to continue the Piedmont (believe me, it was hard to drop in the first place). I really wanted Asheville service, and without the Piedmont, I had to reroute the Carolinian from Charlotte. However, now I will run the Piedmont from Raliegh to Asheville, and reroute the Carolinian back to Charlotte. By the way, do you think I should run the Piedmont from Norfolk - Raliegh - Winston-Salem - Asheville? Is the track from Norfolk still in place? In a final note, my proposed schedule has a 5:10AM departure from Charlotte for the Crescent (It leave NYC later, at 3PM and arrives into NOL at 9:50PM). The Crescent, along with the Carolinian and Charlotte-Atlanta-Florida train would give Charlotte service twice a day, northbound and southbound.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by North American Railroader: Some very good suggestions. I am already thinking about rerouting the 'Palmetto' through Atlanta (for some reason I hadn't thought about that).
A service badly needed.
quote: As for the name, I think I will change (but not to the tarheel, good name, just I'm a Duke fan!)
That made me laugh :-)
quote: I was thinking of something like the Palmland or Sunland; but probably something even more different, Peach Queen would probably be the best.
How about making the new service a Talgo trainset like the 'Cascades' and call it the 'Southern Belle'? CLT-ATL-Florida on a Talgo would be COOL!
quote:How As for the Carolinian and Piedmont. I originally dropped the Piedmont because I wasn't sure of equipment limitations.
I am not sure of the type of passenger cars the 'Piedmont' uses, they are older, quite large, and boxy-shaped. But they were refurbished and are very nice on the inside, still rough looking on the outside.
quote:By the way, do you think I should run the Piedmont from Norfolk - Raliegh - Winston-Salem - Asheville? Is the track from Norfolk still in place?
Didnt think of that either. Service out of Norfolk is desperately non-existant, and with it being the largest military service bases in the country it would be greatly used by our servicemen and women! That train could be its own service...call it the 'Tidewater Express'.
However, we still would need morning/evening service between our state capital and our largest city/cities up and down the I-85 corridor.
quote: In a final note, my proposed schedule has a 5:10AM departure from Charlotte for the Crescent (It leave NYC later, at 3PM and arrives into NOL at 9:50PM). The Crescent, along with the Carolinian and Charlotte-Atlanta-Florida train would give Charlotte service twice a day, northbound and southbound.
BRILLIANT!!!!!!! Fax this over to David Gunn!
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
I would change the southwest chief route. Same route from LA to KC. Then KC-STL-Louisville-Cincinnati-Columbus-Pittsburgh-Philly.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: I would change the southwest chief route. Same route from LA to KC. Then KC-STL-Louisville-Cincinnati.....
Or possibly route it through the now 'defunct' Cardinal Route after Cincinnati? Then to DC or NY? Imagine going from NYC-LAX, coast to Coast and not have to change trains!
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:I really wanted Asheville service, ...
Regarding Western North Carolina service to Asheville...did you happen to see this study?
For the [proposed Adirondack, how would the service go between Rutland and Montreal. Currently the Adirondack runs north from Albany thru Fort Edward on north along the west side of Lake Champlain. If you go to Rutland from Fort Edward (via Whitehall), aren't you committed to the east side of Lake Champlain (and is that even a possibility)? I thought the Montreal-Rutland connection was via bus.
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
Terrific ideas by North American...it appears lots of thought went into this. Interesting ideas by other posters but I have a couple of observations: Service to Asheville is a must but it would be better via Winston-Salem if the track is in good shape. Service from Norfolk seems another good move as that area is so populated. Tidewater, Mountaineer, or Asheville Special all should be considered as the name. Perhaps run one train Norfolk-Raleigh-W.Salem-Asheville and the second train Columbia-Charlotte-Salisbury-Asheville. If the Silver Star got to Columbia at about 6am northbound, it would conenct perfectly. Imagine the traffic FL-Charlotte or Hickory in the summer when everyone goes to the mountains (or in winter for skiing). Forgot Charlotte-ATL-FL as this is too roundabout. I also would add a day train WAS-Charlottesville-CLT-ATL as the old Southern Ry Piedmont did. This whole area is very heavily populated and this would be a winner for sure. Forget changes to the SW Chief...it already does great business from CHI. I do agree a KC-STL-Cincinnati-Pittsburgh-NY connecting train is needed.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by SilverStar092: Service to Asheville is a must but it would be better via Winston-Salem if the track is in good shape.
The 'Western North Carolina Passenger Rail Study' of 3/2001 by the state of North Carolina and the NCDOT considered 4 routing options for Asheville service, none which included Winston-Salem at all. All 4 options heavily involved Salisbury. As far back as 1880 when passenger rail service began to Asheville, it has always run from Salisbury. Winston-Salem for some reason (and great place to chime in with your expertise 'notelvis') doesnt currently support passenger rail service other than thruway bus.
In the 50's and 60's the Western North Carolina trains did run Greensboro - Winston Salem - Barber - Asheville. However, the Winston Salem to Barber line is currently out of service and would require considerable money to restore to service. I beleive at least on fairly major bridge needs replacing. Greensboro to Winston Salem would also need some work, maybe a full rail relay to be able to be run a reasonable speed. This is the main reason the Winston Salem line is not considered in the running.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Amtrak could have a steam engine pull the train maybe once or twice a year on a selected route. For example, January steamengine 975 2-10-2 could pull the Empire builder 1 time over its route and back. Feb. the Southwest Chief. March the Sunset Limited. etc etc.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959:
quote:I really wanted Asheville service, ...
Regarding Western North Carolina service to Asheville...did you happen to see this study?
Asheville PASSENGER service from Salisbury was actually a short-lived thing.....say late 1969/early 1970 until August 1975. (I just did a longer post about that on the 'schedule changes' thread.) The freight always moved through Salisbury because of the yard at Spencer (and later Linwood) and because by coming through Salisbury it would not have to make a back-up move at Barber Junction.
There may have been earlier through Salisbury-Asheville passenger service (like 1880's until WWI or so) but the earliest SR timetables I have show the Asheville train(s) (and there were two a day until 1967) originating in Greensboro. The shift to Salisbury (again, talked about in more detail on the 'hard to plan/schedule changes' thread) was primarily a cost-cutting manuever done shortly before Amtrak came into existence.
Now, how about these schedule changes?
The 'Silver Star' is rescheduled for midmoring departure from New York (and a mid-evening 7:30pm or so arrival) northbound. This would put it through Columbia, SC around 11:30pm southbound, 7:00am northbound.
The 'Carolinian' is extended from Charlotte southward to Columbia making across the platform connections with the 'Silver Star'. (Opening up through service to Orlando and points south from Greensboro, High Point, Salisbury, and Charlotte via the new Columbia connection.)
Finally......the new 'Asheville Special' would depart from Salisbury late morning and return early evening providing connections at Salisbury to and from both the 'Carolinian' and 'Piedmont'.
True, Asheville passengers for points north of Raleigh would have to wait say 6 hours or so for the Crescent BUT then I believe an Asheville connection is going to be more marketable to passengers going to/from Florida instead of the northeast.
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
First, to answer Gradma Judy, that is a very intuitive observation. I had wanted the Adirondack to serve Rutland, because I eliminated the Ethan Allen (since I have decided to reinstate the Piedmont, there is absolutely no way I could run the Ethan Allen because of equipment constraints). To do this, I currently have the Adirondack leave the D&H mainline at Whitehall enroute to Rutland. After this, the train would then back track 23 miles to Whitehall, where it would continue through to Montreal on the west side. According to my railroad atlas, there are turning facilities at Rutland (there would have to be with the Ethan Allen), so the train could easily continue its route after turning the train.
With that, you did raise an interesting point, why not travel on the east bank of Lake Champlain? If the Rutland Railroad route still exist (which my maps depict) travel on the east bank is entirely possible. Does anyone know what condition this track is in? The drawback to taking this route, though, would be the loss of service in Upstate New York in places like Ticonderoga, Port Henry, Westport, Port Kent, Plattsburgh, and Rouses Point. Also, the Rutland RR route would double over a good portion of the Vermonter line between Essex Jct and St. Albans. Nevertheless, such a routing would eliminate the need to turn the train (although it would, according to the map, have to back up about a mile and a half) and would serve Vermont communities such as Middlebury, Charlotte, Shelburne, and Burlington. So what do ya'll think? Which is the better line?
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Now, touching on what notelvis said. I completely agree about the Silver Star schedule, and this is how I had scheduled my service, also. My schedule has the train departing NYC at 9AM, Columbia at 11:40PM,and arriving into Miami at 3:45PM. NB, it departs Miami at 7PM, Columbia at 9:45AM, and arrives NYC at 11PM (as late service to the big apple). Along the same lines, the Silver Meteor departs/arrives at NYC at 8AM/4:22PM and Miami at 1:15PM/11AM.
Finally, I have decided to extend the Carolinian to Atlanta (though my schedule will not change to provide the best service for NC residents, because of the sponsorship, neither will the name). Also, I am going to keep my Palmetto route from Charlotte to Columbia to Florida, since Atlanta would cause a large detour. Finally, I am debating whether the Piedmont should run from Norfolk to Asheville or from Wilmington to Fayetteville to Raliegh to Asheville. Please let me know about both of these track conditions, and what you think. If the former is chosen, the train will be called the Tidewater Special, if the latter is chosen, it will be the Asheville Special. Thanks for all the suggestions, keep them coming!
Posted by Grandma Judy (Member # 3278) on :
The current Adirondack that runs along the west side of Lake Champlain is touted by Amtrak as one of its most scenic trips. Although I grew up in this area (near Fort Edward), I have never taken the train north of Fort Edward. I do not know exactly what route the train follows to get from Fort Edward to the west shore. I haven't lived in the area since I went off to college MANY years ago, but I do have relatives I visit. It is my plan to take the Adirondack north, perhaps next summer. (The route I'm toying with involves the Rochester, NY to Toronto ferry, a VIA train Toronto to Montral and a connection to the southbound Adirondack. Details not yet worked out.)
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
Maybe we can fiure out some way to give train service to Atlanta that goes to SAV or JAX directly and connects to the Silver Service trains s/b. Atlanta is a huge airline hub and rail service would give them some great competition going to Florida.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Finally, I am debating whether the Piedmont should run from Norfolk to Asheville or from Wilmington to Fayetteville to Raliegh to Asheville. Please let me know about both of these track conditions, and what you think. If the former is chosen, the train will be called the Tidewater Special, if the latter is chosen, it will be the Asheville Specia
With all the detailed info on Winston-Salem area track conditions from 'notelvis' any Asheville service would still have to be routed thru Salisbury. Given this, I would probably like to see service to/from Norfolk and Virginia Beach.
Posted by AHALL (Member # 3515) on :
While a passenger train route from Pittsburgh to Columbus would be great, both the Pennsylvania Railroad's Panhandle Route, and the B & O east-west route that would have made this possible, are severed and abandoned in part. The more southern B & O line from Clarksburg, WV to Cincinnati is also gone with U.S. 50 highway construction taking over the railbed quickly after abandonment.
I guess you could go north towards Cleveland, then head southwest to Columbus. Oh well, we can pretend.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
It would be a big boast to Amtrak if they could get Las Vegas or Laughlin on the Southwest Chief Route. But that would require building a new line from Kingman AZ to Las Vegas UP line. sigh
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Can the railroads cover the sides of the rail with that house liquid to foam insulation to prevent rail warping in the summer.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: Can the railroads cover the sides of the rail with that house liquid to foam insulation to prevent rail warping in the summer.
This is not the problem. Let's see if I can give a couple of paragraph explanation of the situation.
We have most lines now in welded rail. As everyone knows, steel and most other things expand with increasing temeperature and contract with decreasing temperature. When rail is installed continuously welded, this expansion and contraction is prevented. Another property of steel is that when a load is applied in compression, that is a pushing load it shortens in the loaded direction, and when a load is applied in tension, that is a pulling load, it lengthens in the loaded direction.
What happens in welded rail is that as the temperature drops the rail wants to shorten but cannot. Instead a tensile force builds up in the rail. Conversely, when the temperature rises, the rail wants to lengthen but cannot. Instead a compressive force builds up in the rail.
These forces can be calculated based on the properties of steel. These forces are completely independent of the length of the rail welded up. The force is directly proportional to the difference between the actual temperature of the rail and the temperature at which the rail would be stress free, AND NOTHING ELSE.
Since long thin steel members perform better in tension than compression, it is better to keep it in tension most of the time. Example: Take something like a yard stick and balance a brick on top of it. Notice that it will bend out sideways when loaded heavily. This is called buckling. Take the same weight and tie it to the bottom of the stick and pick it up, no problem.
This is what happens when the temperature of the rail gets too high above the zero stress temperatue. It buckles out sideways. Since the wheels of the train can not follow the sudden change in direction, a derailment occurs.
A certain amount of compression in the rail is no problem. The ties in teh ballast keep the rail in line. But once the force gets high enough to start a tie moving sideways, you are gone.
For these reasons, welded rail is usually stretched or heated so that it will be stress free at a fairly high temperature. There are maintenance rules and practices in place to be sure that this condition remains. However, over time (years) rail also stretches out somewhat under traffic and needs to be re stretched.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Thank You George.
Posted by Pojon2 (Member # 4048) on :
Terrific suggestions---very likeable!
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
I learned from the last time (last year) that I posted a proposal for Amtrak service. Essentially, you have to be realistic. There are so many lines which would host great passenger service, and many that did; but only a few can actually be implemented. Of course you have to stay within the boundaries, such as the equipment roster, line congestion, and service. My goal was basically to try and serve as many places that I deemed to be able to support service as equipment would allow me.
When looking at Amtrak's active roster, I am actually quite suprised that they run so few trains. I guess that most of the issue is funding. Nevertheless, even though they don't have as many train cars as they should, they have plenty to run one or two more night trains and a couple of day trains. When creating the consist, the only trouble I had was with dining and lounge cars, but there are plenty of sleepers and coaches if the schedules were made with both service and equipment conservation in mind (surprisingly, the most efficient schedules are the most convenient as well).
However, even with that there are some routes that still just don't make the cut, for instance with my list: The Pioneer, National Limited, Desert Wind, Floridian, etc. Although several new lines were added.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
I believe more routes will come if the bill passes that states pay 20% of the cost of rail.
BTW, if China builds a base on the right side of the moon and we build a base on the left, can't a lunar amtrak connect the bases? The Lunar Limited.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: I believe more routes will come if the bill passes that states pay 20% of the cost of rail.
According to 'TRAINS' Sept2005 Illinois funds ZERO percent of the Amtrak trains that run within its borders. I imagine since there are SO MANY cross country/long distance trains that originate and terminate in Chicago, as well as the '300-Series' trains, Illinois would be shelling out some big bucks?
And if a bill passes, and states decide NOT to fund 20+% of the cost of passenger rail service that runs through their borders, would Amtrak REALLY close their doors to those cities/states?
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: [QUOTE]According to 'TRAINS' Sept2005 Illinois funds ZERO percent of the Amtrak trains that run within its borders. I imagine since there are SO MANY cross country/long distance trains that originate and terminate in Chicago, as well as the '300-Series' trains, Illinois would be shelling out some big bucks?
This doesn't soutd right. I was of the impression that the Burlington train and some of the Milwaukee trains were state funded, also the Chicago to Carbondale train and at least one Chicago to St. Louis train. In fact, I was of the impression that Illinois was one of the bigger players in state funding of trains. Maybe you should check the Illinois DOT web site.
George
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: can't a lunar amtrak connect the bases? The Lunar Limited.
That sounds like a fun project. No worries about weather or wind resistance. No air for the diesel, so you gotta be electrified. Given the low gravity, wonder if if something like Lionel's "Magne Traction" could be scaled up, or was that just a sales pitch and nothing real to it? Curves will be fun. Think about how much superelevation you have to have with very little gravity to hold things down. Grades also. If you go over a crest it better be real long or you may go air bourne, no better call that vacuum bourne.
How do you go from car to car? Airlock or do we develop the pressurised vestibule?
George
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris:
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: [QUOTE]According to 'TRAINS' Sept2005 Illinois funds ZERO percent of the Amtrak trains that run within its borders. I imagine since there are SO MANY cross country/long distance trains that originate and terminate in Chicago, as well as the '300-Series' trains, Illinois would be shelling out some big bucks?
This doesn't soutd right. I was of the impression that the Burlington train and some of the Milwaukee trains were state funded, also the Chicago to Carbondale train and at least one Chicago to St. Louis train. In fact, I was of the impression that Illinois was one of the bigger players in state funding of trains. Maybe you should check the Illinois DOT web site.
George
I may have left out the part that said it was for the 2006 funding for the state of Illinois. The article mentioned that current funding was at 12% (?) and would drop to 0% for 2006. I'll also check the I.D.O.T. site...
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris:
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: [QUOTE]According to 'TRAINS' Sept2005 Illinois funds ZERO percent of the Amtrak trains that run within its borders. I imagine since there are SO MANY cross country/long distance trains that originate and terminate in Chicago, as well as the '300-Series' trains, Illinois would be shelling out some big bucks?
This doesn't soutd right. I was of the impression that the Burlington train and some of the Milwaukee trains were state funded, also the Chicago to Carbondale train and at least one Chicago to St. Louis train. In fact, I was of the impression that Illinois was one of the bigger players in state funding of trains. Maybe you should check the Illinois DOT web site.
George
According to the Sept2005 'TRAINS' Amtrak article by Bob Johnston:
"Illinois could be the biggest conundrum of all. It flat-lined for 2006 the $12.1 million it provides in operating supportfor the 'Illinois Zephyr', 'Illini', and 'State House'. Since Amtrak is asking states to pay a greater share of fixed routes costs, Illinois's share of funding the CHI-MIL 'Hiawathas' would DROP from 25% to 12%. If Wisconsin wants to maintain 7 roundtrips...it will have to spend $572,700 MORE out of its own coffers..."
"Now imagine if Illinois being asked to pay a share of the 'Wolverines', 'Lake Shore', 'Capital Limited', 'Texas Eagle', 'Empire Builder', 'SW Chief', 'Cal. Zephyr', 'Ann Rutledge', and 'City of New Orleans'." (I am assuming Illinois currenlty pays NOHING in support of these routes?)
This is going to be a tough sell to Illinois.
"Michigan currently pays NOTHING to support 3 'Wolverine' r/t, and are considering a $1 million cut in support to the 'Blue water' and 'Pere Marquette' effective 10/1/05.
Indiana is a sate that probably wont kick in a cent since their Governer is on Bush's side to Zero-Budget Amtrak".
"Ohio currently earmarks no funds for passenger rail..."
New York: "The long-distance 'Lake Shore' acts as a fourth corridor train b/t NY-BUF, but none get operating support from the state-only the NY-MON 'Adirondack'.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris:
quote:Originally posted by gp35: can't a lunar amtrak connect the bases? The Lunar Limited.
That sounds like a fun project. No worries about weather or wind resistance. No air for the diesel, so you gotta be electrified. Given the low gravity, wonder if if something like Lionel's "Magne Traction" could be scaled up, or was that just a sales pitch and nothing real to it? Curves will be fun. Think about how much superelevation you have to have with very little gravity to hold things down. Grades also. If you go over a crest it better be real long or you may go air bourne, no better call that vacuum bourne.
How do you go from car to car? Airlock or do we develop the pressurised vestibule?
George
why not just use a regular superliner and genesis engines and standard gauge rail and ties. the superliners will need to be air tight and space shuttle type windows. do the same for the genesis . the baggage car could be converted into a giant carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide scrubber. maybe add weight to the train to help keep it on the tracks; even at 1/6 its normal weight it would still be heavy enought to stay on the rail. a 30 mph speed limit and shallow breaking to stop the train.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
While you people are making changes and adding trains could someone figure out a way to get from Alexandria to Ashville. Also now that they changed the Capital schedule for the umpthteen time we need a more sensible one. It arrives in chi early in the morning so there is nothing to do but sit in the lounge, nothing is open ,usually until 10. Then it leaves only 2 hours after the supposed arrival of the cz. I say supposed because the cz is seldom on time. It's usually a race to get the Capital if you are headed east. Last May we made it by a few minutes. Since it gets into DC a little after noon leaving Chi later wouldn't matter much.
Posted by Grandma Judy (Member # 3278) on :
Wisconsin is now paying both its and Illinois' share of the subsidy for the Hiawatha. It is my understanding that Illinois used to pay towards support of the Hiawatha but decided to discontinue that support. Wisconsin feels the Hiawatha is an important resource and stepped up to fill the funding gap (another reason why Wisconsin is a tax hell - but one that I could support for a change).
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
If non-contributing states like Indiana and Ohio were deleted off of the station stops for those services that do stop in those states (ie. 'Capital Ltd', 'Lake Shore', and 'Wolverines') it would have little impact on Amtrak revenue , according to the 'TRAINS' Sept2005 article. However it would kill over 600 jobs at the Beech Grove facility near Indiannapolis, which Michigan is trying to wooh as a relocation site. And without Indianapolis and Cincinnati, services like the 'Cardinal' and 'Hoosier State' might disappear.
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
To solve a problem like this, if this bill were to be passed, Amtrak could charge a much smaller fee for long distance service (since it is less frequent and harbors fewer passangers). To eliminate the problem of 'skipping' states all/some of these guidelines could be put in place: Amtrak trains must make a station stop every 300 miles, Amtrak must have one stop in every state along a particular route, and Amtrak must stop in cities surpassing 150,000 people in size. Of course this would only be applied to long distance trains, states would have to pay a certain amount (varying on frequences, stations stops, and route length) for shorter, intercity service. This way, at least some service would remain in every state. In addition, since cities falling into the 'freebee' category would not cost the state any money, perhaps they would be inclined on spending the capital on more stops or service. This would also relieve states like Illinois and California who have tons of trains everyday. Of course, this would not apply to the northeast corridor, since it's to Amtrak's profit to run more trains.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
The LAX connection only provides and hour layover, so I probably wouldn't rely on that if this were the actual schedule. However, the Coast Starlight connects easily with the SW Chief, CZ, Empire Builder, and American Zephyr; so I can't argue.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
could pull the Empire builder 1 time over its route and back. Feb. the Southwest Chief. March the Sunset Limited. etc etc.