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I'm not trying to be cold. But I was wondering when the Sunset Limited was returning to service? I check the system map, I notice a line from Beaumont to Baton Rouge and Baton Rouge to Mobile. Is this correct?
Maybe temperary service until that area is rebuilt.
SunsetLtd Member # 3985
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I just wish they wouldn't take the sightseer lounge from the Sunset like they did. Put them on the rescue train. But what purpose would they have on the rescue train? Coach cars hold way more people than a sightseer lounge. And I hope they do run to baton rouge, give the sunset a full route because it won't be going back to normal for a LONG time.
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by gp35: I check the system map, I notice a line from Beaumont to Baton Rouge and Baton Rouge to Mobile. Is this correct?
Not completely.
There is a line from Beaumont to Baton Rouge more or less parallel to US 190, now UP, was Missouri Pacific's Gulf Coast Lines. East of Livonia probably needs upgrading and a good direct connection to the Mississippi River Bridge replaced. This line is supposed to be in very good condition for the most part. You cross the Mississippi River on the single track bridge similar in nature to the Huey P. Long bridge. Somewhere in Baton Rouge there is a connection to the ICRR line to Hammond, Louisiana, but I do not know anything about its location or condition nro if it be used directly or would require a back up move. The ICRR line is reasonably good, straight, and I believe has a 40 mph speed limit for freight trains.
In the past there was a railroad line from Hammond more or less paralleling the north shore of Lake Ponchatrain that went to Slidell, Louisiana. So far as I know, this was never more than a low speed secondary line, and also to the best of my knowledge no longer exists. Between Slidell and the CSX line that parallels the Gulf coast there has never been a connection.
If the line to Slidell no longer exists, which is the likely scenario, Then you must go north to Jackson, Mississippi before turning east. From here, you can go on east on teh KCS line to Meridian, then on to the Meridian and Bigbee to a CSX branch to the former Frisco line into Pensacola, then turn south. Or, you can immediately turn south at Jacson Mississippi on the ICRR line to Mobile. Do not know the current condition of this line, but at one time the speed limit was 25 mph all the way from Jackson to Mobile, 180 miles or thereabouts. I think it may be faster now, but no idea how much.
Even if you could get to Slidell, you would then have to turn northeast on the NS to at least Hattiesburg. At this point the Jackson MS to Mobile line is crossed, and then you have about 90 miles on it to get to Mobile.
Short answer, not sure a detour is practical. Maybe if you go hammond, Jackson MS, Birmingham AL, Atlanta, Jacksonville, but at least Atlanta to Jacksonville is very congested on both NS and CSX lines.
George
purrzz70 Member # 4002
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The only info I can give you (I work out of LAX Union Station), is that Amtrak is currently running passenger service between Los Angeles and San Antonio only!!!. Nothing east of there. The only thing east is for rescue and relief efforts only. There is not estimate on the date of re-opening of the tracks. By just looking at the pix I can tell you this...a long time, maybe 4-6 months at least.
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Lousiana DOT does not have a rail map on line that I could find, but Mississippi does. at gomdot.com/maps/rails/state_rrm.pdf Go to the bottom and enlarge to see the gulf coast area. Generally very good, even shows which rail lines have CWR and which do not, but not necessarily 100% accurate on that. Also shows Amtrak routes and labels some lines as piggyback routes. One error on that, It labels the original ICRR passenger main through Grenada as a piggyback route. It is not. It is now for the most part a 10 to 25 mph streak of rust.
George
gp35 Member # 3971
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With the huge economic growth coming to Baton Rouge, I wonder if Amtrak drop Lake Charles/Lafayette for the Baton Rouge northern route.
Kairho Member # 1567
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DRAT! First they take away my local train (Palmetto) and now the Sunset ...
As the only useful places (IMO) are "out west," I am effectively stranded in Florida.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Actuall, comin geast of Houston, you can stay on the former SP track trhough Lake Charles, and then take the former MoPac line from Iowa Junction to Kinder (the track is adjacent to US65) and get on the former MoPac line to Baton Rouge there.
The question is, what do you do east of Baton Rouge? If the KCS line to New Orleans is open again, you can then take it to New Orleans and continue east as before. I have not added the milage, but this may be shorter and faster than the all SP route currently (make that formerly) used. Otherwise, maybe buses Baton Route to Mobile. Greyhoud schedules this is 4 hours, maing the bus Houston to Mobile significantly than the train.
Regardless of rumors to the contrary, it appears that CSX has every intention of restoring their line into New Orleans.
George
gp35 Member # 3971
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I was talking after New Orleans is rebuilt. Baton Rouge MSA before Katrina was 800,000. After Katrina +1,000,000. Baton Rouge would be more economic attraction than Lafayette and Lake Charles combined. I'm not wishing that for those 2 cities, only discussion purpose.
The Iowa Junction line to Kinder looks beat up. I doubt the speed limited is high. However the KCS line from Vidor to Kinder is very fast. Going to the casino in Kinder, the highway is next to that line and I have witness freight trains doing +60 mph on that line.
George Harris Member # 2077
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According to the UP ETT, Kinder to Iowa Jct. has a speed limit of 49 mph, which mean that it could be 59 mph for passenger trains.
Current Amtrak times (Westbound, Eastbound has a lot of slack.) New Orleans to Lake Charles: 219 miles, 5h15m Lake Charles to Beaumont: 60 miles, 1h35m
So, by the existing route via Morgan City, Lafayette, Lake Charles: 279 miles, 6h50m current minimum schedule time westbound.
A look at a 1956 Official Guide tells the following:
Southern Pacific times in 1956: New Orleans to Lake Charles: 219 miles, 5h25m Lake Charles to Beaumont: 60 miles, 1h30m (to downtown, not current station)
Kansas City Southern times in 1956: New Orleans to Baton Rouge: 79 miles, 1h45m
Missouri Pacific times in 1956: Baton Rouge to Kinder LA: 105 miles, 3h00m Kinder to Beaumont: 83 miles, 2h00m
For the connection between the MoPac and SP between Kinder and Iowa Jct.
Kinder to Iowa Jct.: 20 miles, 49 mph currently, say 30 minutes to allow for wye time at slow speed Iowa Jct. to Lake Charles: 12 miles, say 20 minutes
Based on this information, it would seem possible to do it in the following times:
KCS/UP (ex MoPac) via Baton Rouge, Opelousus, DeQuincy: 267 miles, 6h45m, assuming 1956 times are still achievable. Best call it 7h00m plus.
KCS/UP (ex MoPac & ex SP) via Baton Rouge, Opelousus, Kinder, Lake Charles: 276 miles, 7h05m assuming 1956 times are still achievable. Best call it 7h15m.
Therefore, there appears to be some but not much time increase to run through Baton Rouge, and to continue to have service to Lake Charles would cost about an additional 15 minutes.
George
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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A review of the website for hypothetical trips Memphis to New Orleans and Atlanta to same on November 15 shows "no service'.
I think this non-rail article appearing in Today's New York Times is sobering enough for anyone who wants that city to make a quick rebound. I think it is going to take a long time, if it is ever to occur.
I further think the 2010 Census will show a New Orleans population within municipal limits of 300K; for the 2K Census such was 476K. In short, the exodus will match the worst that any major city, such as Detroit, has seen. With exceptions of course, no one will choose to live there unless they are associated with an established industry such as transportation (most natural transportation hub on the planet), petrochemicals (just happens to be where they are), and even though I have my doubts, tourism.
The Wall Street Journal reports that even well reknowned yet private Tulane University is concerned about the prospect of students choosing to enroll there in the future.
If it were not for the aforementioned industries, New Orleans could well end up a Love Canal or Chernobyl.
Disclaimer; I have no personal use for the place, such as to visit it as a tourist, but I fully recognize its importance as a transportation hub for interface between maritime, inland waterway, and surface transportation as well as its proximity to petroleum supply.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Mr. Norman:
While New Orleans has long had the reputation of the "Sin City of the South" and is generally regarded by a lot of people in the southeast as the equivalent of a large pimple on the butt, I do not expect to see the losses near as high as you do. All the reasons that people were living there in the first place still exist, so most will return, or if they don't others will come.
What I do expect to see is a large effort to close the barn door now that the horse has been stolen. In other words, they will get about the business of doing the very non-glamorous levee strengthening and raising to exceed the "maximum credible high water" that should have been done years ago. As has been thoroughly illustrated by Mother Nature, or the Good Lord as your thinking may be, is that a flood in New Orleans is more like the overtopping of the dikes of the Netherlands than any other situation in the USA. Everywhere else, ultimately drainage of the flood will occur due to gravity as soon as then inflow slows down, but not in New Orleans.
Generally subdivision drainage is designed for something like the maximum flows that would occur in 20 years, sometimes less, because you are dealing with small areas and minor short term inconveniences when water does back up. Major drainage is usually designed for a 50 or 100 year return period, but even this is inadequate for a stiuation like New Orleans. For New Orleans the results of inadequate flood protection are so severe, you either protect against the worst likely to ever happen or you abandon the city, because sooner or later the worst will occur.
George
mikesmith Member # 447
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This isn't exactly RR related, but the 9th ward of New Orleans is a complete loss. Why wouldn't fill dirt be brought in and raise the entire area to a level that would insure levees are no longer needed in that area? I'm betting that would cost us a lot less than the tear-down and rebuild that is being considered right now. Flatten the houses and cover all the toxic dirt, and get a new start for that part of town.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Forget the idea of fill. When New Orleans was first settled, it was not below sea level. ALL of south Louisiana is gradually sinking into the sea. Adding fill only accelerates the speed of settlement. That is why you see so many miles of bridges on Lousisana's highway system. If they installed fills, they would promptly start settling adn require continual maintenance due to cracking of pavemetn and then need raising at intervals. The process would continue for years. Most of the railroads are on low fills, but it is easier to raise tracks with additional ballast. i wouls suspect that a lot of the south Louisiana railroads have several feet of ballast under the tracks.
The formal term for the situation in South Louisiana is underconsolidated sedimentary soil. That is simply put, all this area is build on river sediments set down layer by layer over the centuries without the lower layers compressing to the point of stability. The consolidation is a process of centuries.
If the Ninth ward or any other part of the city is filled to any elevation lower than the top of the levee, it will be insufficient to prevent future flooding, so instead of a ridge of dirt around the area, we are talking about a huge volume to fill the entire city. This will not stay put because it will compress the underlying solil, accelerating the rate of settlement. Therefore to fill the ninth ward or any other part of New Orleans would be both extremely expensive and temporary. And, yes, the levees also settle, but you are talking about only raising a ridge of dirt, not an entire city.
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