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The other topic about 12 and 24 hour clocks brings to mind the similar problem we have with dates. I work in the travel business around the world and absolutely hate it when someone writes to tell me about something they need to have happen on 6/9/05 Is it June 9th or September 6th?
Dates need to be standardized worldwide as well as the clock as been.....
CHATTER Member # 1185
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That is why I write today's date as 20 Sept 05. No confusion.
George Harris Member # 2077
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In Taiwan the standard is year month day. Makes even more sense. To seperate computer files on the same subject, end them with the date in that manner (yymmdd, or if you are worried about 2100, make it yyyymmdd, just be consistent) and they will appear in the folder in date order. Chatter has it right to be sure. Some military dating is done the same way, except it would be written 20Sep05, with all months having three letter abbreviations and no spaces.
Kairho Member # 1567
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There are almost as many standards as there are countries. The problem with yymmdd is that it can easily be confused with ddmmyy (except for 050505 of course!).
The only foolproof way to avoid the ambiguities is to use letters for months and use 4 digit year: "20 Sep 2005" or "Sep 20 2005" or "2005 Sep 20" etc.
Actually, about 10 years ago we standardized on this (with 2 digit years generally used as there is no ambiguity there in our business) with our worldwide suppliers. And we have been pleased to see them slowly change to that in their literature, letters, and so on.
Kiernan Member # 3828
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The very best way to avoid ambiguity is to write September 21, 2005. It takes a little more time, a little more ink, and a little more paper, but it's clear. We think of dates in that order. When you try to simplify, you may defeat your own purpose. If the reader has to think for even a millisecond about what you mean, you've lost the benefit of simplification.
Geoff M Member # 153
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I too find it confusing. Any idea what the origin of the month *before* the day rather than the other way around? I may be biased but it should certainly be ddmmyy or yymmdd and not mmddyy! Interestingly visa forms for the US state ddmmyy.
I write computer software for a living and we write and/or store the dates in the format George mentions - ie year first - so that listings get sorted properly.
Geoff M.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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I also work in computers. Where I work, yyyy-mm-dd has evolved as the standard for dates. It may be sorted and there is never a century problem. When using 2 digit years, the century (or Y2K) problem can still be a problem with birth dates (i.e. 01 can be 2001 or 1901).
Kiernan Member # 3828
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The origin of month, day, year is an interesting question. And I suppose that day first is rational, too. Ask a person when he was born. Some might say "October the sixth" and some might say "the Sixth of October. Hardly anyone would say "1949, October 6." And it is true that Julius Caesar--who has a month named after him--died on the Ides of March, not March Ides.
Geoff, in The Guardian Weekly is a column called "Notes & Queries" for interesting questions like that. I'll send it in and see if they use it.
I suppose that either day or month first is OK. I prefer the month first because it seems clearer to me. It depends on what your audience expects, and if your audience is a computer, you need to do it the way the computer wants.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!! You guys have beaten this topic to death!!!! Let's get back to AMTRAK and trains!
Kairho Member # 1567
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Actually this topic is indeed related to trains (especially international operations) and Amtrak. I wonder how many international visitors have requested ticketing in dd/mm form and received service on mm/dd.
It is a minor concern to most but still well related to the overall subject. But, as observed, it has pretty much run its course...
Having said that, though, it should be noted that agents booking AMTRAK and AMTRAK's internal reservation systems all write dates as 20SEP. No year is necessary. That is because Amtrak and the airlines only open bookings for no more than 11 months in advance. Thus, the date always refers to the next such month, in this numbered year or the next.
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