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How about we start a NEW Amtrak with David Gunn as President and with a new President in the white house?/!! President Bush is subverting America's system and purpose and giving us new inflation without paying attention to the people's needs. He is not respecting the needs of the 25 million passengers that used Amtrak last year!
JONATHON Member # 2899
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and he cant run a country ether..
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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So constructive?????
And we wonder why we have little influence.
Please lets be serious and talk about the practical.
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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RRCHINA you think I'm not serious!?
Guess what!?
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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Sir, you may indeed be serious. But practical and with ideas that will be implemented, not when you present them with the language you have chosen.
mikesmith Member # 447
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Pojon... Whine on, dude....
Or do something constructive, like write your congress critters and complain about the firing of Gunn, and the direction our 3rd choice in transportation is taking.
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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MIKESMITH---WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK I HAVE DONE---I've already talked to all our reps and senators already--have you? Tell them to re-instate Gunn and do even better like backing the full funding of Amtrak at $1.2 billion A YEAR AND IF NECESSSARY overriding Pres. Bush's potential veto of the current funding bill (the 5 year budgetary amendment to the large transportation funding bill just passed by the senate this week.)
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: Pojon... Whine on, dude....
Or do something constructive, like write your congress critters and complain about the firing of Gunn, and the direction our 3rd choice in transportation is taking.
Been writing those letters for more than 30 years now. I'm not sure whether they've helped or not. I've shied away from email because when I tried that I wound up getting junk email from my congressman every week.
Last February I took a day off work to picket Norm Mineta's press conference in Charlotte. Can't say that accomplished anything either but it gave me a feeling of empowerment that the letters never did. (I stand by my earlier assertion that Mineta must be dishonest because I don't want to accept that anyone that ignorant would have been appointed to the position he holds.)
So yeah - I'll write more letters. I have the first draft prepared. Now I'll sleep on them a day or two before sending because I always have to be careful what I say. Here lately I've been concerned that my letters will cause me to be branded a subversive and wind up on some CIA watch list.
mikesmith Member # 447
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David, write on, dude... {pun intended}
We can do nothing except whine or we can do something, like write our congress critters, President Bush, and even the dishonest SecTrans Mineta.
Pojon, based on your posts, I have no idea what you are doing besides whine. Two of the primary problems with your above post are:
1. Amtrak needs $1.8 Billion a year, not $1.2 Billion. 2. Bush has never vetoed an appropriations bill.
In fact, I'm betting Amtrak is SO far below his radar screen that he would need a full briefing on the subject, just to educate himself about any possible problems with passenger rail. I believe he considers Amtrak to be Mineta's problem.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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Congress, as backwards as it is, is still way ahead of Bush and Mineta on Amtrak. Don't forget the good news that happened last week. The Senate passed a pro-Amtrak bill 94-6, with even John McCain on board. House members also voted to authorize their side of the house-senate budget conference to approve the higher Senate budget of $1.45 billion for 2006, instead of the lower $1.2 billlion originally approved by the House.
And the House railroad subcommittee has invited David Gunn to tell his side of the story on Tuesday at a public hearing.
Its not all bad news, folks.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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quote: I believe he considers Amtrak to be Mineta's problem.
So as far as Amtrak is concerned, the buck stops with Mineta? It is interesting how Bush supporters attribute Bush's shortcomings to his appointees, and not the guy who appointed them in the first place.
mikesmith Member # 447
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No, Mr Toy, that is one of President Bush's attributes {or faults, depending on your point of view}. He hires the best people he can find and lets them do their job.
Is everything perfect? NO! However, Bush's administration is not even close to the royal screw-up that belonged to his predecessor, although Mineta was a part of that previous administration, and in my opinion, should not have been a part of the Bush administration.
Kairho Member # 1567
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>He hires the best people he can find...
Looks like he needs to find a good person to do a better job of finding the others...
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: although Mineta was a part of that previous administration, and in my opinion, should not have been a part of the Bush administration.
Hi Mike,
I am in full agreement that Mineta should not have been part of the Bush administration. Sadly though, he is a Bush appointee (at transportation). Mineta, the token cabinet democrat, was offered DOT Secretary after outgoing North Carolina governor Jim Hunt, also a democrat, turned down an invitation to serve as Education Secretary. I am of the opinion that had Hunt accepted the education post the DOT secretary would have likely gone to a republican. Personally, I would have loved to have seen former Wisconsin governor Tommy Thompson in the DOT position. Perhaps Thompson's pro-Amtrak record is why he did not get the DOT nod to begin with.
mikesmith Member # 447
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Mineta served as U.S. Secretary of Commerce under President Clinton. And I understand Bush wanting to include democrats in his administration {"can't we all just get along" strategery}, but why Mineta? Thompson would have been a MUCH better choice.
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: Mineta served as U.S. Secretary of Commerce under President Clinton. And I understand Bush wanting to include democrats in his administration {"can't we all just get along" strategery}, but why Mineta? Thompson would have been a MUCH better choice.
True and agreed. I've edited my post above to reflect that only Mineta's appointment to the DOT was a Bush era decision.
Regarding Tommy Thompson, the saddest thing is that he WANTED the DOT position and even asked for it. Perhaps it's my pro-rail bias but I felt that Tommy Thompson was uniquely qualified to be DOT secretary. Judging from their editorials at the time, so did journalists in both Madison and Milwaukee.
'crawling toward 500 posts......one click at a time'
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Quite predictably, it is now time to "demand a Congressional Investigation".
Lastly folks, chances that Mr Gunn will ever be employed again in the railroad industry? Slim to none. In the mass-transit community? very slight to slim.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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I learned something new today from that NYT article. BNSF is the second largest shareholder of Amtrak stock, and BNSF is concerned about the board's action, too.
BTW, you can e-mail C-SPAN and ask that Tuesday's House railroad subcommittee hearing be televised. Write to events@c-span.org. You'll also find the e-mail link under "suggest events" on this page: http://www.c-span.org/about/contact.asp
Jack_S Member # 3069
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quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy: I learned something new today from that NYT article. BNSF is the second largest shareholder of Amtrak stock, and BNSF is concerned about the board's action, too.
Maybe that's why they move AmTrak trains along their lines in such a (relatively) expeditious manner.
Jack
irish1 Member # 222
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amtrak is not a public company. how can they have stock?
George Harris Member # 2077
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Firstly, you do not have to be publically traded to have stock. A lot of corporations, by definition ownership is in shares of stock, are held by a small number of shareholders, a lot of times in a family. It can be a more convenient way of dealing with a family business than by having fractional partnerships. Stock in these businesses with a limited number of share holders is not traded on the stock excange. There is no reason for them to do so, and it cost quite a bit of money to be listed on a stock exchange.
Also, setting up your business as a corporation can serve to limit liability. In most partnerships every partner is liabile for the debts of the whole partnership. With a corporation, your liability is limited to the amount you paid for your stock. There is a form of limited liability partnership, but I know nothing about it. I am sure that any errors I have made in the fore going will result in someone jumping in and correcting them, in fact, please do so.
At the time of start up, each railroad putting themselves into Amtrak had to put in equipment and cash and got stock in return. I believe that most carried ti as zero value, and I do not know what happened to it since then. I would have expected CSX to be the largest if it had been retained by the various companies, because their components would have had the largest trainmiles, but on the other hand probably a smaller than some others passenger defecit. BNSF represents BN and ATSF, both of which also had substansial passenger train milage at that time.
George
irish1 Member # 222
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thank you
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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Amtrak IS the federal government---I see no evidence that there are shareholders in Amtrak by anybody.
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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I checked with Amtrak headquarters today in Washington, DC and talked to the public relations offices and ther are NO shareholders in Amtrak. Amtrak is fully funded by the budget from congress and the fares and fees collected from the ridership, the Post Office and limited freight shippers. Amtrak pays CSX, Union Pacific, BNSF, etc. to carry Amtrak trains in an expeditious manner.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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Pojon, according to the House briefing memo (which I posted under another thread) Amtrak stock is held by the following: American Premier Underwriters Inc., Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, Canadian Pacific Railway, and Canadian National Railway.
According to the memo: "Given the current distribution of stock ownership, only a combination of the first two listed shareholders would suffice to create the required two-thirds majority for amendment of the articles of incorporation."
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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Mr. Toy you are probably right! Tell that to the public relations dept. of Amtrak in Washington. The so-called stock ownership may be "ceremonial" and means nothing much in the actual funding and operation of Amtrak.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Canadian Pacific would be the Milwaukee Road shares. Canadian National would be Illinois Central and Grand Trunk Western. Who is American Premium Underwriters?
CG96 Member # 1408
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American Premium Underwriters? Perhaps they account for the Penn Central shares.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Concur Mr CG96. American Premium Underwriters is a concern controlled by financier Carl Lindner, who acquired the Corporate entity Penn Central Corporation from the Bankrupt's estate.
Secondly, Mr. Pojon; obviously you were given mis-information by Amtrak's Public Affairs Dept, but then, what else is new? However, it should be noted that a corporation is not required to publicly disclose identities of its shareholders. Such disclosure would be inimical to their interests should they be the target of a hostile takeover initiative.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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Maybe Mineta is actually part of a 'discredit the opposition' plan by the Bush administration (or Karl Rove?): Find a democrat who is willing to lie, say stupid things, descredit a popular program, and promote impractical solutions that will cost more money. Then surround him with unqualified people (like the Amtrak BOD) and let him really mess things up.
Probably just wishful thinking on my part -I want to believe they are at least devious, corrupt and self-serving instead of asleep at the wheel.
jgart56 Member # 3968
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TwinStarRocket,
I think they are asleep at the wheel. Amtrak is unimportant to GWB, so farm out somebody (IE Normie)to take care of whatever is unimportant like Amtrak and let them run with it!
Normie simply has his mind made up about everything Amtrak and will not let the facts sway him. Oh gee, does this remind you of somebody else??? Every sense of irony intended!
I pray Normie wakes up one morning and discovers how irrelevant he has become...and then resigns!! Hope, Hope, Hope!
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