Anybody know anything about the foreign investment overtures made by the French National Railways, the Spanish National Railroad and the Shinkansen Company ("Bullet Train") (in Japan)? All three made concrete detailed proposals to invest many billions of $ in Amtrak and congress apparently turned down the proposals. Anybody have any details on this? The Florida State government also turned away investment by the French National Railways in a potential high speed line from Orlando to Miami.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Did that really happen? Sounds questionable to me.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
These people would all like to sell us stuff, which is no way the same as handing us money or investing in our system. The Talgo trains are Spanish, but again they were bought by Amtrak / Washington State, not donated. One catch is that neither the European nor the Japanese equipment meets, and in some areas does not even come close, to the FRA crashworthiness standards nor quite a few of the other minimum equipment standards to run on the US railroad system. Their response to this has been to demand a change in the standards, and to say that the standards can't practically be met, which last is completely bogus. I can say this last from dealing with certain European railroad people. Their usual response to being asked to do something different from their normal is to say it can't be done, when what they really mean is we have never done it that way and don't know how to.
George
Posted by Pojon2 (Member # 4048) on :
I'm talking about economic investment not the technical problems of the potential investments proposed. An ex-senator from Florida did a lot of world-traveling to put together economic interest in investing in Amtrak's present and possible future trackage. There is strong interest out there for partnerships by foreign railways with Amtrak to expand and solidify Amtrak's yearly funding and expansion. Apparently Amtrak is not interested, nor is congress.
Let's see what happens with the congressional sub-committee hearing tomorrow at 10am on the firing of Gunn and the legality of the Amtrak board.
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
Pojon2,
Where exactly are you getting this information???
Posted by Pojon2 (Member # 4048) on :
From the new York Times, Miami Herald, Amtrak's employee newsletters and the office of ex-Senator Paula Hawkins (who specialized in transportation development and problems) over the years.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
While the following is unrelated to passenger rail, I must be skeptical with regards to your report, Mr. Pojon.
During 1980, there was a report in the Chicago Tribune that Japanese maritime interests were considering acquisition of Milwaukee Road Lines West, but such went nowhere. While I realize that both Canadian roads have made acquisitions of US Class Ones, there is "just something about', i.e. negative sentiment, with regards to overseas foreign ownership of US transportation companies.
One reason I believe the Port of Seattle today is a "backwater' when compared to Port of LA is the absence of a competitive East-West transcontintental route (UP is there and surely makes East West rates; but the route is rather circuituous at best). The MILW in the hands of maritime interests would certainly have addressed that issue.
Lastly, I read The New York Times print edition daily and am unaware of any such report that you have outlined above.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pojon2: I'm talking about economic investment not the technical problems of the potential investments proposed. An ex-senator from Florida did a lot of world-traveling to put together economic interest in investing in Amtrak's present and possible future trackage. There is strong interest out there for partnerships by foreign railways with Amtrak to expand and solidify Amtrak's yearly funding and expansion. Apparently Amtrak is not interested, nor is congress.
I think you need to come up with some "Chapter and Verse" references for this stuff. I try to keep up with what is going on in the industry and work with people from just about all the foreign rail entities you have named and have never heard of any of this. Are you sure that you are not some how coming up with 2 + 2 = 22 ? So far all I see out of these guys is a willingness to daal with someone with an open checkbook and pen in hand. Yes, the Japanese in particular would love to sell the Shinkansen system to California, but the operative word in this sentence is "sell."
George
Posted by Pojon2 (Member # 4048) on :
Dear George, Mr. Toy, etc.: All the info I have gathered over the years has come from daily reading of the New York Times, Business Travel magazine, Travel Weekly magazine, the Miami Herald, The Palm Beach Post-Times, the Amtrak employees newsletters, Florida Sun-Times, Rail Travel News, the reports on transportation from various members of the Florida legislature, from Senator Nelson of Florida, ex-senator Paula Hawkins of Florida (personal contact with her over the years), etc., etc.
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
I still have a hard time believing why any foreign country(or company for that matter) would want to invest in Amtrak: looking at all the lack of non-planning transportation-wise by former administrations, looking at all of the political warfare going on around Amtrak every year, and looking at the lower percentage of people who use the trains when compared with roads and airlines...who would be interested? I wonder if this is/was wishful thinking on peoples parts? And I agree with Mr. Norman, it would be nice to SELL equipment to America, but buy into the system? I doubt it.
Posted by 4020North (Member # 4081) on :
quote: neither the European nor the Japanese equipment meets, and in some areas does not even come close, to the FRA crashworthiness standards nor quite a few of the other minimum equipment standards to run on the US railroad system. [/QB]
It would seem to me that if our crashworthiness standards are too strict for other countries' trains to qualify, we maybe ought to reconsider them. I mean, those trains are the safest in the world, running on dedicated track for high speed trains only, and they hardly ever even crash at all. Their trains are safer than ours, not that ours are at all dangerous. One might argue that if we built a Shinkansen line, say, from Miami to Orlando, it would be a big safety improvement because some of the 1000 or so (I don't know the exact figure) automobile crash fatalities that happen per year in Florida would be avoided because people took the train instead. Those countries are the leaders in high speed rail design, and it makes sense to me that we would consider accepting their safety standards.
Posted by 4020North (Member # 4081) on :
Not that I think we are considering that.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by 4020North: It would seem to me that if our crashworthiness standards are too strict for other countries' trains to qualify, we maybe ought to reconsider them. I mean, those trains are the safest in the world, running on dedicated track for high speed trains only, and they hardly ever even crash at all. Their trains are safer than ours,
Yes, I will agree that we are somewhat over the top about vehicle safety, but at this point I see no reason that we should back off from where we are. The actual costs of the differences are relatively small.
I am sitting here with access to about as much information as gets out on railway accidents elsewhere, and let me tell you, the European equipment is light years BEHIND ours in a number of ways that are safety and crashworthiness related. They make things look good by spending lots of money and being very tight lipped when things go wrong. Think about, the French a few months back burned up a sleeper load of people due to an unattended hot plate. The Germans managed to bring a bridge down on top of a train because the bridge supports had neither crash walls nor pier caps, and the much lighter construction of the coaches resuled in horrendous loss of life. I could go on. A couple of years ago there was a report came out that proportionate to passenger miles the accident, infury and deaths in train accidents in Western Europe was in the same range as India. Unfortunately I can not lay my hands on it anymore. The Japanese manage their safety by having one of the most rigid obsessions with rule obedience imaginable.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :