Did you all see this article? I'm not saying Subway would be my first choice, but franchising the snack bar seems like a very good idea to me. (I hope Premiere Moisson in Montreal puts in a bid--best food in the world! Or, if not, maybe Krispy Kreme, though their coffee is not as good as their doughnuts).
"Subway" On Track For Amtrak Riders
Nov 15, 2005 7:37 am US/Eastern (1010 WINS) RENSSELAER, N.Y. Subway is coming to some Amtrak passenger trains.
That's Subway, as in the chain of sandwich shops.
The rail service is bringing in Subway to offer food on trains that run between New York City and the Albany-area station at Rensselaer. Starting Thursday, Subway workers will operate from the Amtrak train's cafe car as well as offer order taking and delivery to a passenger's seat.
The arrangement comes a few months after Amtrak shut down the cafe cars on its New York-to-Rensselaer service. That cost-cutting move wasn't popular with regular riders and the Empire State Passengers Association, a rail advocacy group.
Amtrak says the Subway deal is a four-month trial run that could result in competitive bids going out next year to make the food offerings permanent. The rail service is also considering resuming sales of beer and wine from the cafe cars.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
This is a good start; Amtrak needs to contract out some of its on board services. However much we like trains, we need to endorse the idea of at least experimenting with having outside companies be responsible for food, bedrooms, cleaning, etc. Of course we think of the cheerful Amtrak employee who does his/her job well, but most of us probably also remember the disappearing sleeping car attendant on the Cal Zep or the vicious dining car waiter on the LSL. Why is it seasonal tourist trains seem to get a better class of employee than Amtrak? Are part-time college students somehow better at pleasing the passengers than permanent employees of Amtrak? So lets have Subwy and maybe Einstein Bros. Bagels run the cafe's in the NEC. See if Hyatt or Doubletree can operate the sleepers on one long-distance train. Perhaps picadilly's might take over a diner. It might be Amtrak's only hope.
Posted by CoastStarlight99 (Member # 2734) on :
Subway is certainly better then no food service at all! Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
For the dining cars, I think they should look into prestige chefs who might be interested in doing it for the publicity.
And maybe also culinary students; just about every state has a culinary school, and hotel schools also abound.
Posted by abefroman329 (Member # 3986) on :
Seems like a great idea for shorter-distance trains that can't normally support food service, though I hope a sub won't replace a steak on longer-distance trains.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
When i travel by train I buy a sandwhich at the subway store at the Union Station or donuts and coffee at the Dunkin Donuts if its early. Yeah Subway stores stocking the cafe cars sounds great idea
Posted by Chucky (Member # 2263) on :
I can't remember eating anything at any Subway that was even remotely edible. At least I could always count on a cheese pizza to stave off the hunger in the cafe car: The ingredients were clearly posted on the celephane wrapper and they were, believe it or not, all natural and contained no preservatives.
Granted, most of the food in the cafe car is crap, but at least the pizza was good and didn't haunt me at a later date.
Also, I distinctly remember buying some excellent vintages of wine in the cafe car, especially on the Coast Starlight as it rumbled through wine country.
And then there was an excellent red, called St. John's I think, that I consumed on a trip from Toronto to Chicago. It was a local vintage. Unfortunately that ran out quickly and I had to resort to a white that the well-dressed fellow I was sitting with referred to as "choir boy pee." We eventually couldn't stand it anymore and gave it to a French man who polished it off in no time flat.
Look, if you guys are so intent in ditching the cafe service, why not bring in a bunch of teenage boys to serve it to us? Lord knows what they'll do to the sandwiches when we're not looking. Buy hey! We won't have to pay Union wages.
There's no guarantee that privitizing the food service is going to improve anything. Subway is out to make a profit and they're not gonna make a dime off the sort of coach passengers I generally travel with.
And for those who keep harping on the service, remember that its going to be hard to provide anything resembling quality service on trains that were built back in the 70s. At least the current Amtrak attendents go out of their way to keep the air moving, the doors closing and the cigarette smokers out of the bathrooms. Yeah, you're going to get quality service from people making $6 an hour who don't know a word of English.
What planet are you people living on anyway? (The planet Walmart? The planet Subway?) Give me a break.
Posted by EmpireBuilder (Member # 2036) on :
I think the idea of offering service by other companies like Subway is a good thing as well (though for subs I prefer Quiznos to Subway). The key to avoiding an upset stomach from them is to avoid the mayonaise (bad past experiences the night after eating subway). Just getting something basic like turkey or I think there is one with three meats call the cold cut trio. The rest of it is pretty nasty looking, I will concede.
However, these do provide more options for people, plus it could perhaps hold a potential of making more money for Amtrak to contract it out. While agree that nothing could beat the steak while traveling on Amtrak, many in coach cannot afford three meals a day in the diner, and the limited variety in the lounge car gets old. I only ate in there once on my last (and only) Amtrak trip. That includes breakfast both direction in the diner and dinner one way. Dinner the way back was in the lounge, and was the cheeseburger. I found it to be quite good considering the pre-packaged form it came in. So that combined with the cheese pizza provide two good options. But for some on longer trips, only having two options would get quite monotonouse. That's why I think adding a little variety could help.
Also, to Chucky, how busy was the train on your trip between Chicago and Toronto? I ask assuming that you took the now defunct International. I'm curious as to if it was underutilized or if it was a poor choice to elimiate it. Personally, I have a hard time believing a train connecting two of North America's great cities would have trouble making it. Also, I think one of the bigger faults in our rail system is the lack of connections (only 3) between Amtrak and Via, when considering the length of the border.
Posted by Chucky (Member # 2263) on :
Yes, I suppose it was the "International." I took the train shortly after 9-11 and the main problem with that was not the food in the cafe car. The biggest problem was that we were forced (at five minutes notice, no less!) to remove ourselves from the train at the border and get on a bus to make the mile or so ride from Sarnia (I think it was) to Port Huron. In other words, the tunnel was closed. It was a mess, it took forever, cost the taxpayers a fortune and left me with a bad taste in my mouth that even Quiznos could not get rid of. No small wonder they got rid of that train. And yeah, it was packed.
My take is that a "Subway" is not going to solve Amtrak's food problems. Maybe some decent food selections would help but I just can't imagine some teenage kid doing all the sorts of things that are expected from a lounge car attendant. Like 1) keep the videos running day and night 2) serve alcohol 3) point out the sights to us weary passengers and 4) creatively work in a space the size of a bathtub and manage to keep order among the Amish, visitors from other countries, unruly teenagers and senior citizens that can barely walk.
Over the years I have learned that it makes a lot of sense to eat in the dining car, no matter how much it costs. Sure, I might pack a few turkey sandwiches but they only last so long and the risk of food poisoning always hangs over your head.
As a person who boards Amtrak on long haul journeys every bit as much as the rest of America boards planes, I've got to tell you that a surprising amount of coach passengers travel like refugees.
That's right: refugees. They pinch their pennies. They complain about everything. And in the midst of all this the train is falling apart around them. Unlike a lot of people on this board, that really doesn't bother me, however.
The 70-era trains that we ride on are about the safest instruments of travel on earth. They can survive just about anything. The media always hipes up a train crash (and always has), but the reality is that, compared to plane travel, there really aren't many crashes despite the fact that Amtrak runs on a tiny budget and uses antiquated trains.
This whole micromanaged discussion about Subway really distracts us from far more important issues. Sure, the food probably can be better. But does that mean we have to get rid of the competent personnel that delivers it?
People are people. Riding on Amtrak for more than 24 hours would make anybody crazy after a while. Although there very well may be some lazy people in the employ of Amtrak, replacing them with Subway employees is not going to solve that problem.
I have asked attendants and Amtrak workers exactly how much money they do make and, trust me, we're not talking six figures here.
There must be an easier way to address this issue.
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
Does anyone really know if Subway will provide the workers?? Or are they just providing the food??
I don't possibly see Subway setting up a huge counter in the Lounge Car with 50 different toppings per sandwich...I think the sandwiches will be prepackaged...no way to keep all the fixins fresh.
At this point, though, I'd rather not jump to conclusions on how this service will pan out!!
Posted by Chucky (Member # 2263) on :
Excellent points, jgart56: There is no way to keep the food fresh. It must be prepackaged. The food is prepackaged now, so what is the difference?
This brings to mind the time I took the Southwest Chief from ABQ to LAX and the sightseer/cafe car broke down in Albuquerque. At the very last minute, the cafe car attendant turned the smoking compartment of a coach car into a cafe car. I'd like to see Subway do that. (They'd probably just hire a lawyer and sue Amtrak).
As I see it, the big difference between a privitized cafe car and the status quo is that right now the Amtrak crew works as a team. You start mixing privitized workers with the regular staff and you are guaranteed to get all sorts of infighting and resentment.
I work at a University and they've privitized some people in the food service and they tried to privitize the duplicating services. The duplicating services went broke and the price of food has skyrocketed.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
This arrangement with a Subway franchisee is to be a "contracted out" operation. Employees of the franchisee (pretty sure Subway does not have any 'company' outlets) will provide on board food service thus displacing Amtrak employees who hold a contract with their employer to exclusively provide such service. Nothing has come to my attention establishing that any change to these working conditions has been collectively bargained.
I could be mistaken, but it seems like the employees' union is, quite simply, MIA.
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
I think Chucky's right,
Could you imagine the turf wars that will go on between the union and non-union people? And what happens if the Subway Service is subpar, or terrible, and a passenger has a beef (sorry bit of a pun there), who does he/she take it up with?
Conductor: It's not my problem! Car Attendant: It's not my problem! Amtrak: please take it up with the Subway corporation, it's not our problem!
This should be interesting!
Posted by MDRR (Member # 2992) on :
I can confirm it will be Subway employees providing the service, it will be premade sandwiches, aswell as other items. They are starting with one r/t a day and will be gradually expanded over the course of the 4 month experiment. They also intend to provide cart service in the coaches.
Unfortunately Mr Norman, the food service employees do not have any negotiated protection against having food service contracted out although there currently is no food service on the trains where the experiment is taking place.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
Chucky
May I suggest the Chicken Tariyaki, Sub and the Chicken Parm. True its not the Carnigie Deli but It is big improvement over the micro waved fare at many of the cafe cars.
Posted by EmpireBuilder (Member # 2036) on :
I guess the space constraints of having a Subway restaurant-type set up never occurred to me before. I think I was mentally living in an ideal world where they'd get an all new style of car, or at least significantly renovate a current dining car. I think the space things would be the most difficult. I don't know how things would work with the employees. I was imagining that it would be someone of similar qualifications to the normal lounge car operator, but I guess that is unrealistic, too.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
I went to a concert recently were Subway had a concession stand. You had three choices: Chicken, Turkey, or Club (6" or 8" options).
All sandwiches were pre-made and very expensive. I bought a 6", 2 bags of chips, and a drink and it was $12. I am guessing the same will apply to your choices aboard an Amtrak train.
Posted by Chucky (Member # 2263) on :
There's nothing new about shoving a cart down an aisle. They did it on the VIA on the run between Ottawa and Toronto and also, I saw them do it on the Hiawatha between Chicago and Milwaukee last time I rode it.
It's almost like being on an airplane. If the guy is serving he plays the clown. If its a girl, she plays the *** queen. The food is expensive but if you're hungry and you're too cheap to eat in the diner (assuming there is one), you will gladly play whatever they ask for a tiny bag of chips or a warm cup of yucky coffee.
Clearly, such an arrangement will not work on a doubledecker Superliner, so maybe it's just destined for the east coast trains and the Talgos.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: I went to a concert recently were Subway had a concession stand. You had three choices: Chicken, Turkey, or Club (6" or 8" options).
All sandwiches were pre-made and very expensive. I bought a 6", 2 bags of chips, and a drink and it was $12. I am guessing the same will apply to your choices aboard an Amtrak train.
I have a concern about this experiment.
I wonder if these pre-made sandwiches are going to have condiments already on them?
If so, this is a useless option for me. I'm allergic to mayo and, frankly, cannot and will not patronize a vendor who doesn't offer a sandwich with a mayo-free option.
Now the outside vendor that used to sell BBQ sandwiches on the Piedmont is one that I'd like to see more of!
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by notelvis:
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: I went to a concert recently were Subway had a concession stand. You had three choices: Chicken, Turkey, or Club (6" or 8" options).
All sandwiches were pre-made and very expensive. I bought a 6", 2 bags of chips, and a drink and it was $12. I am guessing the same will apply to your choices aboard an Amtrak train.
I have a concern about this experiment.
I wonder if these pre-made sandwiches are going to have condiments already on them?
If so, this is a useless option for me. I'm allergic to mayo and, frankly, cannot and will not patronize a vendor who doesn't offer a sandwich with a mayo-free option.
Now the outside vendor that used to sell BBQ sandwiches on the Piedmont is one that I'd like to see more of!
The ones sold at the concert did not, and packets of condiments were piled in plastic bins next to the window at the counter...
Krispy Kreme doughnuts could easily be added to the Crescent and Carolinian as the travel through Atlanta and NC. I can see it now in the AMTRAK Cafe Car...'Hot Now' signs illuminated and hot coffee on the brew...
Yummmmmmmmmm Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
I may have mentioned this in another thread . We were on the Cardinal coming east when we hit a huge rain storm. The rain penetrated the dining car roof and knocked out the kitchen. thanks to a super dining crew we had a great deal of fun and no one minded cold cereal for breakfast. We joked about carry out for lunch but when we got to Charleston, WVA they onloaded lunch. It was Subway sandwiches,they were excellent..coice of cheese, ham and cheese or roast beef with lettuce, tomato and pickle, the condiments were separate and we took what we wanted. It was certainly far better than the sandwiches I have had from the club car on a nunber of trains going north and south. We have always found the food going east and west to be very good. In all the years we have been "Amtraking" I don't think I have had one bad or even marginal meal.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It's all over--
I think it would have easy to predict this contracting-out initiative was going to be a fiasco, or if you wish an "in by nine, out by five" contractual arrangement.
Maybe now they can get Krispy Kremes! There is one in Albany, and one in NYC that serves Penn Station.
Posted by travelplus (Member # 3679) on :
How about Starbucks on Rails? Now featuring your favorite beverages onboard. With Sandwiches,Pastries,Hot and Cold Drinks it's a Starbucks shop on wheels. United serves Starbucks so Amtrak can do the same.
It's the way to enjoy America at it's finest. Starbucks would also provide coffee for the diner as well. Your Java is a hop and skip away from the coach car or sleeper car and if you are in a sleeper we provide a complimentary tall beverage of your choice for each passenger.
Better than Subway
Posted by CoastStarlight99 (Member # 2734) on :
quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Maybe now they can get Krispy Kremes! There is one in Albany, and one in NYC that serves Penn Station.
They have them on the Surfliners, unofrtunetly they were not to fresh when I tried them.
Posted by D. David (Member # 4055) on :
Hate Subway. They have a disgusting aftertaste. I wish they could get 7-11 if they're considering reasonable mediocrity.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I guess the employees and their representatives can sort of claim victory in that the oustide contractor is off the property, however it could well be a "Phyrric Victory', or sometimes expressed as "the battle was won but the war was lost'.
Let us be mindful that the only trains on which Amtrak is obligated to offer Food & Beverage are those sponsored by local jurisdictions where the sponsors call for F&B to be provided. Otherwise, even though the Amtrak enabling legislation, the RPSA '70, called for F&B on all trains with runs over 125 miles, later legislation, namely ARAA '97, repealed any such requirement. Therefore at present and away from local sponsorship, Amtrak has the perogative of choice whether or not to offer F&B on any train.
At present, both the Bush administration, with its de facto operational control of Amtrak, and now even the Congress, who hold the purse strings, wish to see contracting out initiatives move forth. I think the representatives, in this case the Amtrak Service Workers Council of the Transport Workers Union. must see the "writing on the wall" and 'come to the table' to collectively bargain under the Railway Labor Act the conditions under which Amtrak may contract out F&B and other on-Board services. Failing that, the traveling public will end up the loosers as F&B, and even Sleeping Car services, are "reviewed' systemwide.
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
I am amazed that we have not heard anything at all from the Transport Workers Union on the Subway debacle or any other Amtrak problem. Have they just thrown in the towel? If I were a dues paying member, I would certainly be angry at the union for their lack of overall presence!
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