I used to read this forum regularly, but haven't been here in quite some time. I came over here to see what reactions were to passenger complaints on the massively delayed Florida trains last week. I was surprised to see almost nothing mentioned on the subject.
I have a relative who works for Amtrak. I don't talk to her often about work, but she has said that there is an overall decline in all services. She mentioned that in the near future, dining cars will be only serving tray meals. Is that true?
The passengers who arrived in NY and who were interviewed by the local media said that the train staff did nothing to keep them comfortable or informed during the delay, that bathrooms were filthy, and that the trains ran out of food.
I had read many stories in the past of how train crews would go so far as to have a local restaurant bring food to the train if there was a problem, like a delay or malfunction with the kitchen. Why didn't this happen now? Especially since at least one of the trains was sitting at a station stop for many hours. It's not like they were out in the middle of a swamp and unreachable.
The last time I took an LD train (Lake Shore Limited) was in August 2003. At that time, it had been two years since I had taken an LD train, and I noticed a difference in service on both legs of the trip. There weren't as many nice little touches. The biggest concern was that our sleeper attendant spent most of the trip hanging out in the lounge chatting with other crew members, leaving her 12 year old son to make up beds and tend to the sleeper. Granted, this kid was extremely polite and did the job very well (showing that this wasn't the first time), but the thing is, he's not an Amtrak employee.
Bottom line is, I'm asking the more seasoned travellers here if Amtrak really is getting that bad, or were these more isolated incidents? Is train service overall still great? I took trains in the past because of a fear of flying, which I have worked very hard to overcome. Even going through security at airports doesn't bother me...I flew Newark-Chicago O'Hare during the holidays and never had to wait more than a few minutes with no wanding or bag searches. Even times when we had to have heavier searches, it was done quickly and courteously by TSA personnel. However, I wouldn't mind taking Amtrak again, especially for one of the West Coast routes. But I'm not going to plunk down that kind of money for reduced services.
Also, this might be old news here, but what happened to David Gunn? Wasn't he supposed to do great things for Amtrak? Was he ousted or did he leave of his own accord?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Haven't seen you around in a while, Ms. Bumble; welcome back.
Regretably, Amtrak service especially in the area of LD timekeeping has deterioriated to such extent that I can no longer recommend LD Amtrak travel to anyone (Corridor, with its "adequately satisfactory" service, of course). For myself, I am 'reassessing' my travel arangements for my annual trip to Florida as well as the two I usually make each year to New York.
You noted Dining service; I understand there is a proposal to implement catered food on both the City of New Orleans and Texas Eagle. Food would be prepared off site by a caterer, placed aboard the train at meal hours, and continue to be served by Amtrak Agreement employee waitstaff on dinnerware with metal flatware. The entres to be offered are to be casseroles like Lasagna and Turkey Tetrazini. There would be no more on-board cooking.
Also, the sale of Snack Bar items will be made in the Dining Car, which means the continued assignment of Sightseer Lounges to those trains is "questionable".
This is all consistent with the Bush administration reform initiatives, which with respect to LD's, seems to be that service will continue and basic creature requirements will be met, but anything resembling a "land cruise' is out.
Regarding David Gunn, he publicly refused to embrace the Administration's reform initiatives and obviated the chain of command with respect to diseminating those views; accordingly. he got what he had coming - dismissal.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
We're not sure yet just how much damage was done by the massive delays. Suffice to say that it could not have happened at a worse time. The LD trains are in for another round of fighting for their lives. The Gunn dismissal came just a couple of months ago so you'll not have problem finding a number of editorials online still.
Essentially, Amtrak is being FEMAtized. We have a family event in Florida coming up in late March. While I'm still considering trying Amtrak at least one direction, there is no way I'll subject my wife and daughter to what could go wrong. They will be taking the somewhat less than friendly skies.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
You can get lots of opinions on this, but here is mine. Since Amtrak has to beg to get about 85% of what it needs to survive, it has to cut expenses where it can. Through the delusional Warrington years of a "glidepath to self-sufficiency", equipment deteriorated, on board staff decreased, and debt was incurred. The showcase Acela trains drained millions, but achieved little in ridership or speed gains. Then their brakes broke and they spent time out of service. One current proposal is to cut diners and sleeper service!
Amtrak staff morale suffers from years of poor management, job insecurity, and union protections that may not work in favor of customer service. And of course, a few bad apples. Then there is the Bush admin proposal of zero dollars for Amtrak and passing the funding to the state level.
David Gunn took Amtrak from a position of near financial collapse to a sytem on life support but still breathing. The Amtrak Board of Directors, which is supposed to have 7 members approved by Congress, dwindled to four 'pro-reform' Bush appointees (only 1 approved by Congress, and another being DOT Sec. Mineta who constantly bashes Amtrak). The other 2 have the full functionality of Howdy Doody. Having four allows them to get a majority of the 7 member board.
David Gunn claims some of the proposed reforms are intended to kill Amtrak. He refused to support a spin off of the NEC and was asked by the "board" to resign. He refused and was fired.
Some in Congress claimed this was not legal, and supported Gunn. There is still debate over whether the intent of Mineta and the board is to kill Amtrak or implement progressive reforms. Amtrak got 1.3 billion in defiance of Bush. There is legislation pending to restore a 7 member board and extend funding beyond a year. Stay tuned.
My opinion: Mineta and Board bad. Gunn very good. The one functioning board member David Laney -probably bad, but maybe genuinely well intentioned, hopefully not delusional, maybe evil.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
While I admire David Gunn, I am not among those who think he was perfect. I did notice a slight decline in service quality overall while he was president. David Laney acknowledged to the house railroad subcommittee that service quality was inconsistent, and was one of the reasons why Gunn was let go. Laney implied that he wants better on board service than is currently available.
Laney also stated that Amtrak needs to expand to be successful. So I am cautiously optimistic about him. As for the rest of the undersized board, I'm less confident.
NARP had an interesting report to its members on the CSX/Silver trains matter. They reported that Amtrak got a black eye, and was generally inept in handling the problem. However, NARP indicated that passenger reactions were generally not as harsh as what was reported in the news media. Here's what NARP said:
"...we understand that many passengers last week felt they were treated well, and that most of those subsequently contacted by phone responded positively to Amtrak's outreach. Also, Amtrak is undertaking an unusually detailed investigation, which will have consequences." Posted by dcfan (Member # 2311) on :
Yes, Amtrak service has slipped. DW and I were regular riders 2-3x yr from Washington south on 97/98 in a Viewliner standard. The first thing we noticed was slippage in the on-time performance. Late trains, especially northbound became the rule. The final straw was a trip earlier this year. The train arrived northbound at 1 a.m. - 3 hrs late. And there was no attendant at hand to open the sleeper doors and greet us. Platform crew had to board the train and wake someone up to open the car and drop the stairs to let us on. Tsk tsk.
Wesley
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by dcfan: Yes, Amtrak service has slipped. DW and I were regular riders 2-3x yr from Washington south on 97/98 in a Viewliner standard. The first thing we noticed was slippage in the on-time performance. Late trains, especially northbound became the rule. The final straw was a trip earlier this year. The train arrived northbound at 1 a.m. - 3 hrs late. And there was no attendant at hand to open the sleeper doors and greet us. Platform crew had to board the train and wake someone up to open the car and drop the stairs to let us on. Tsk tsk.
Wesley
You must have been boarding at either Kingstree or Florence. I had similar issues once (but in the late 90's) waiting for a very late 98 in Fayetteville. At that time 3 hours down was the exception though. It now seems tobe the rule.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
I haven't taken a train trip since 2002, but hopefully will take one with my wife this year. As David ("Not Elvis") recalls, I also remember that not too long ago (3-4 years), the Silver Service trains were just about always on time into central Florida coming from the north and south. I used to regularly go to the Orlando AMTRAK station to watch #92 come in on weekends, and it was just about always within 5 minutes of schedule. I guess things have changed now, eh?
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
In my 909,000 rail miles I have experience all the good and bad about Amtrak. The low point for food was in 1982 when fresh food was replaced by airline style meals and paper plates with plastic forks were used with no table clothes. Steaks came back and then food service was inproved. The chefs went to Culinary school and the meals were fantastic. They could use their own spices and wow great food. Amtrak then stopped letting them do that but as few still to this day do. The Coast Starlight wa turned into a excellent train with superior service. If Amtrak would have done that with all the other long distance trains then things might be different today but they didn't and over time the Starlight has reaturned to its former status. Amtrak still has plenty of great hard working crew members today who still give fantastic service with what they have.
Chris
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
I wonder if David Laney has ever taken a Long Distance train and can truly comment on whether service was uneven or not! That's my question about all the board members...how many of them actually take the time to ride a train, any train to see what service is like.
Again, I think the new CEO needs to sit down with each Railroad president and see if he/she can find a way, any way to improve time keeping...even a little bit would work wonders!
I saw more good staff members than bad on my Amtrak trip last Fall and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when working for a sometimes up but often times down company.
Posted by Chucky (Member # 2263) on :
I'm not a big fan of east coast trains because most of them are single level. This means that there seems to be a larger concentration of baggage and people than one would find on a double decker Superliner like the Southwest Chief. For this reason the bathrooms on single level trains seem to get messier faster and there is less room to mill about because the bags are all over the place.
I take the Chief to Chicago and Los Angeles regularly and I have not really seen a spectacular decline in service. I have seen younger people taking the place of older staff however, and I have been disappointed in their training and their inability to deal with crisis situations.
Case in point: During a trip to Los Angeles a few weeks ago, I had happily drifted off to sleep in coach. It was late at night and the lights were out and the train was becoming peaceful and quiet. Suddenly my slumber was disturbed by an alarm that was going off at 30 second (or so) intervals. I assume that somebody had pushed the attendant button.
Although I was wearing earplugs, the sound began to grate on my nerves and I searched the train for the attendant to get her to turn the damn thing off. I managed to find her and told her about the situation. She told me (and I'm not kidding) that the sound was caused by people improperly flushing the toilet.
Since I was exhausted (and under the influence of a sleeping pill) I wasn't in the mood to argue so I endured that brain-numbing sound for the next few hours until the conductor turned it off.
I have also seen an attendant who did not possess the knowledge required to close an automatic door between train compartments. At night, the sound of an open door can make you crazy.
I have seen attendants (on more than one occasion) put people in the wrong car and then, after they were settled, tell them they had to move.
My experience in the dining car has always been positive. The worst thing that happened on my last trip was that I thought the cooks had not given me enough ice cream and whipped cream on my apple pie. I should have said something but instead I just stewed in my juices.
As far as the coach cars are concerned, I am pleased to say that many of the old Superliner bathrooms appear to have gone through some sort of remodeling. The colors are a little more contemporary and the toilets seem to flush a little better.
And unfortunately many of the passengers are still inconsiderate slobs who won't clean up after themselves in the bathrooms, talk loudly on their cell phones and listen to music on their ipods turned up so high on their headphones that everybody can hear them (oh yeah, didn't the media say they were going deaf because of those ipods?....)
In short, I would say that Amtrak needs to teach the attendants a little bit about basic maintenence. Otherwise, the system (in coach) seems to be acceptable on this side of the Mississippi.
As far as delays are concerned: I rarely encounter extraordinary delays on the Chief.
Posted by patsym (Member # 556) on :
My husband and I rode the CS to San Diego on Dec 26th to the Holiday Bowl and returned on Monday, Jan 2nd. We experienced delays both directions but I felt like we were well taken care of anyway. The Conductor made announcements about why we were delayed many times which always helps to understand. We were bussed to San Diego from LA in the middle of the night but we knew this was a possibility so made arrangements accordingly. The real delay came on our return on the 2nd. We arrived in Portland 12 hours late at about 4 am. We had to wait about four hours in LA for the train to be serviced and stocked for the return trip. We were kept abreast of the progress by a great red cap and the diner car attendants passed out water, juice and pastry then later the old time Amtrak snacks. We had bedrooms both ways and our car attendant (Elizabeth)was wonderful. The service in the diner was about the best they could possibly do given the train was sold out and the need for extra service. I think most people were very good about all the delays, there are always some that get grouchy but that happens everywhere. I think if you travel Amtrak you should know that delays can and will happen and prepare accordingly. We still had a good trip and I would go again in a heartbeat if I could afford it. I hope Amtrak survives, I love the train.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chucky: Suddenly my slumber was disturbed by an alarm that was going off at 30 second (or so) intervals. I assume that somebody had pushed the attendant button.
Although I was wearing earplugs, the sound began to grate on my nerves and I searched the train for the attendant to get her to turn the damn thing off. I managed to find her and told her about the situation. She told me (and I'm not kidding) that the sound was caused by people improperly flushing the toilet.
That's not as far fetched as it seems. I witnessed a similar middle of the night situation. Some old lady made a late night trip to the toilet, and she kept pushing the attendant call button over and over, thinking it was the button to flush. When it didn't flush, she kept pushing the button, again and again and again.
Might mention this was in a Superliner II, which flushes when you close the toilet lid. I suspect the lady was accustomed to the Superliner I which flushes with a button.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
If this noise went on for a "few hours", wouldn't that imply none of the crew passed through that coach over that period? Or worse, they don't care? And if this is true, couldn't something more serious take place. This is inexcusable.
I certainly don't mind the crew getting all the rest they need, but it should be arranged for some crew member(conductor?) to cover for another so that the welfare of the passengers is observed more frequently than hours apart.
Is it possible for a passenger to shut off a call button? How do I close an automatic door? It shouldn't matter if it is not allowed if there is no one to catch you. Maybe I will need to know how to do that some day to get some sleep.
Posted by Chucky (Member # 2263) on :
TwinStarRocket,
As I said, I mentioned the incident to the attendant, who attributed the periodic repeating tone to people improperly flushing the toilet.
As ridiculous as her response may seem, it is very revealing: I do believe that a climate of fear existed within the staff of the Southwest Chief on that particular day (it twas Xmas day). Maybe a climate of fear exists within all organizations, but like yourself, I think this particular incident could have been much worse than just the activation of an attendant button.
I'm sure the attendant was new and, for reasons that are speculative, I think she had insecurity issues relating to her new position and, ahem, her weight.
At any rate, I think that she should have gone directly to the conductor and dragged him out of bed and made him deal with the situation. But I also think she was afraid of his wrath and instead felt it was in her best interest to simply ignore the situation.
I guess life is a juggling act and when it comes to those of us who ride in coach, we are somewhat expendable. Better to preserve one's job than to do the right thing.
Then, on the other hand, she may have sincerely believed that the repeating tone was due to people improperly flushing the toilet.
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
Chucky Conductors do not sleep on the train. They have a maximum 12 hour shift {usually 8-9 hour shift}, then another conductor takes over. The attendant would not have to wake the conductor to check on an alarm.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
And we all know government employees never sleep on the job.
I once went through 3? shifts on the Southwest Chief between Flagstaff and Garden City, asking each conductor about upgrading to first class. The answer was always "stay in your seat and I'll get back to you". No one ever got back to me. Never saw a conductor except when occasionally taking tickets. So I missed dinner and time in the lounge car. They must have been checking the tires.
On the other hand, once the conductor went through the train offering tours of the unsold first class accomodations, and probably sold them all.