During a recent speech in Texas Amtrak Board Chairman David Laney said he would like to see one or two new corridors opened where there is sufficient traffic to make the services viable with other forms of transportation. It has been awhile since expansion talk has eminated from Amtrak higher ups and is obviously worth pursuing but I belief the main focus should be on restoring some of the recent cutbacks to the national system. These would include a thru Boston section for the Lakeshore Limited, thru New York-Philadelphia service connecting at Pittsburgh with the Capitol Limited, a second New York-Pittsburgh frequency, separate east and west coast Forida sections of at least the Silver Meteor and an additional frequency from Washington D.C. to the Tidewater area to name just a few. Mr. Laney spoke of the need to cut expenses which is fine but revenue growth thru additional frequencies on some segments of the long distance routes would be a plus (A Chicago-Twin Cities day train to compliment the Empire Builder would be a good start). As for the new corridor services a Twin Cities route to either St. Louis or Kansas City which would connect with the western transcons and have local traffic potential and the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati route would be my two choices for potential new services
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
They are saying we(Texas) needs to cut the number of vehicles on the roads. Rail will be used to do this. No details, but it is good they are talking this way.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
What are these "one or two" new corridors he proposes? Was he referring specifically to Texas, or the US in general?
In his testimony to Congress on David Gunn's firing, Laney said "Amtrak needs to expand" but he didn't elaborate. I'm cautiously optimistic that Laney just might be one of these people who "gets it" but the signals he's sent thus far aren't all that clear. He strikes me as being fair minded and thoughtful, but he plays his cards pretty close to the chest.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Considering what happened to his former boss, if Laney has any plans other than conducting a funeral, eithere for Amtrak or himself professionally, he had better play his cards close to his chest.
Posted by Capltd29 (Member # 3292) on :
Well, this could be talk to back the B. Administration's talk of expanding short distance corridors. I still dont see how any of these plans could materialize without the proper funding. I hope its more than this though...
Posted by B.T.Rider (Member # 3975) on :
Bill, et al.: While we're wishing, how about restoration of the Desert Wind & Pioneer, extension of the San Joaquin to Los Angeles, retoration of service to Phoenix (the largest city in America without passenger trains?).
Then there's the question of making the Sunset daily (more often between Tucson, Phoenix, Palm Springs, and Los Angeles. And a second coast train on the west -- the east coast has several trains.
Don't believe what the administration says about Amtrak. They lie about it, just as they lie about the invasion of Iraq, their fix for Social Security, the response to Hurrican Katrina, and, oh yes, GW's military career.
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
BT Rider, you do know that Congress is the entity that finances Amtrak, right? Why are you lying about "the administration"?
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: BT Rider, you do know that Congress is the entity that finances Amtrak, right? Why are you lying about "the administration"?
Mike,
I respect the opinions that you bring to this board but even the staunch right-wing people in my workplace have begun to ask serious questions about what condition the United States will be in when the Bush administration is finished with us. In the face of record federal deficits and continuing declines in the economy (plus a growing perception of federal deceit last seen in the early 1970's) how you've managed to 'keep the faith' without wavering puzzles me.
Having attended one of the Mineta 'Road Show' press conferences last year, I do not believe that it is too harsh to use the term 'lie' when discussing things that members of this administration have said. Amtrak, admittedly, is a low priority and it isn't much of a stretch to conclude that, if Mineta would be so misleading about Amtrak, members of the administration would not hesitate to be untruthful about things more important to their agenda.
While congress does fund Amtrak, they generally do so with a starting point established by the White House. That 'starting point' has now been $900 million for three of the last four budget processes. Giving the impression that the White House does not play a role in funding Amtrak is misleading.
Again Mike, I appreciate your contributions to the forum. I always read your posts, think about them, and read them again. Sometimes, particularly when I disagree, I'll even read them a third or fourth time. Perhaps one day we'll meet for a dinner of reheated Stouffers Lasagna aboard the Sunset and have a delightful conversation about some of the wonderful train trips we have taken. Probably we won't talk about politics though if you don't mind!
Respectfully,
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
David, you misinterpreted my post. I was questioning the usual statement that a lot of Americans are making right now, IE: Bush lied/lies. When directly questioned, none of these Americans can produce a direct quote that provides proof that "Bush Lied/Lies". It's more of a throw-away statement, as opposed to a factual statement. It is a common delusion amongst many Americans.
As far as my defense of Bush, I agree with about 80% of what he's doing. My serious disagreements are with border security and budget control. He's doing poorly in those 2 catagories. He's doing great in our war on terrorists, our diplomatic policies, his fix for Social Security, and our economy is rocking along just fine.
As far as Mineta is concerned, I don't know why the guy still has a job. Obviously, transportation is a low priority to Bush. He doesn't seem to be engaged in Mineta's department. Of course, Bush has bigger "fish' to kill in Afghanistan, Iraq, and around the world, but I wish he would at least get interested in transportation. We need Interstate II.
As far as funding Amtrak, Bush & Mineta have very little influence on that. Last year, they proposed $0. That was immediately flushed by Congress, the people that count for Amtrak funding.
And having a "meet-up" on the Sunset would be great. I've been wanting to take a trip from Houston to El Paso and back... just because.... And the 17,000 points I have would help with the cost...
I can discuss politics in a rational manner with rational people, so that shouldn't be a problem with us. I can also talk about train trips, my grandkid, camping, scenario paintball games, hunting, and the heat and humidity of a Houston summer... Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your rational and thought-provoking post. I think in some areas our points of view are closer than they seem while there are those where we still disagree. I'm not spoiling for a fight or even a lengthy debate so I'll just mention a few things. I'll be back to read your response and will likely acknowledge that I have done so but after this post I'll move on to 'fry other fish' myself.
While the president thundering on television that "Americans don't torture" doesn't proove an intent to 'lie', it does underscore the moment where I lost faith in this president and those around him. I would have much preferred the opportunity to consider casting my presidential ballot for John McCain. Even though he is also 'anti-Amtrak', I find myself in agreement with about 95% of what John McCain has to say.
The economy may be fine in some quarters but there are hundreds of empty textile plants throughout the Carolinas and soon there will be empty Ford and GM plants which aren't just in the rust belt anymore. Not everyone would agree that the economy is fine.
I agree that the empty plants have more to do with NAFTA fallout which is not a creation of this administration. However, I believe a different economic approach now would better address those concerns. I believe that we would disagree on the solution to budget control but we do agree that this is a huge issue.
Border control...I agree with you. I wish that more attention was being paid to Mexico rather than harrassing international Amtrak passengers going to and from Canada.
Remember David Stockman from OMB early in the Reagan administration? His failed attempt to eliminate Amtrak contributed to his resignation a short time later. I wouldn't mind if Mineta decided to 'retire' now. I believe that if former North Carolina Governor Jim Hunt, a Democrat, had accepted the bid to be Secretary of Education that Mineta would never have gotten the DOT position. By the time Bush got around to transportation, he was still looking for the token Cabinet Democrat and Mineta was about all that was left. Wouldn't it have been nice to have Tommy Thompson at DOT?
Riding the Sunset? Maybe this July (when Houston IS hot) I'll get that direction. It has been years since I've ridden westward from New Orleans and I'm eager to do that again. Just have to build up another 1,500 or so Guest Reward points.
Take Care and Happy Riding,
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
One quick thought, David...
Where Ford and GM plants are failing, Honda, Toyota,and Nissan plants are expanding. People will be buying cars, just not Ford, GM, or Chrysler products.
More later.
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
Mike,
I hesitate to point out that those without jobs will not have the cash to buy any new Honda, Toyota, or Nissan vehicle. Where will they and the many others laid off recently find jobs that will give them a decent standard of living let alone the ability to purchase an Amtrak ticket for travel.
And I believe David was talking about his area affected by the closing of Ford or GM plants. I doubt if Honda, Toyota, or Nissan will be moving in there any time soon. So what do the people in his area do in the meantime? retrain, yes, re-educate, yes...but all this takes time and money...of which time they now have, but money they have not.
I found your response somewhat flippant and insensitive.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Does anyone know if Gov. Mark Warner of Virginia had much to do with Virginia Rail Express. Is he a potential presidential candidate that made passenger rail work in his state?
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
jgart, do you realize that unemployment is below 5%? Do you know the significance of that figure?
A quick goggle search for honda US Assembly plants will get you this: Koichi Kondo, president of American Honda Motor Co. and chief operating officer of Honda's North American Region, discussed the company's latest U.S. plans in Atlanta, the capital city of Georgia (www.georgia.org). Kondo had come to announce that the new American transmission plant was headed to Tallapoosa, a small west Georgia town of some 3,000 residents.
And from Nissan: SMYRNA, Tenn. (Nov. 28, 2000) -- At 8:45 p.m. (CST) last night, a yellow 2001 SuperCharged Nissan Frontier 4x4 Crew Cab became the 5 millionth vehicle built at the Nissan North America manufacturing plant here, marking a milestone in production.
And Toyota: 02/05/03
Toyota announced today that it will build a new assembly plant on a 2000-acre site in San Antonio. Beginning in 2006, the new plant will produce approximately 150,000 Tundra full-size trucks annually, supplementing the production at Toyota's Indiana facility.
Now, jgart... stretch your imagination a bit... Do you think those displaced GM and Ford workers might have an opportunity to go back to work with one of the above companies? Do you think North Carolina is close to any of the above plants? {free clue: think GA & TN}
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by jgart56: I believe David was talking about his area affected by the closing of Ford or GM plants. I doubt if Honda, Toyota, or Nissan will be moving in there any time soon. So what do the people in his area do in the meantime? retrain, yes, re-educate, yes...but all this takes time and money...
Close but not quite on target. I intended to imply that Ford and GM retrenchments would be affecting areas beyond the traditional US auto manufacturing areas. That would include Tennessee and Georgia (which border NC) but not North Carolina itself.
Perhaps a measure of the economy's true strength would be how many of the jobs out there are 'decent' jobs paying a liveable wage.
BUTTTTT.......I pledged to fry other fish rather than continue with this debate. Thanks for your input jgart and again Mike, thanks for developing the thinking behind your positions more fully. I look forward to seeing your posts in other topics.
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
David, one last point. When President Bush stated "Americans don't torture" I believe him. I also believe that humiliation is not torture. Denying them a few meals is not torture. Playing loud music 23 hours a day is not torture. Torture involves physical pain, such as pulling fingernails off, or shocking various body parts, or listening to a Hillary speech over and over for weeks on end.... Some people want to define torture as making the enemy "feel" bad about themselves. That's just silly.
Whoops, I have another point. Is Mineta lying? Or is he just too ignorant to know the information he's disseminating is false? I don't know. Personally, I don't think he's a very intelligent person, based on his statements.
And, bringing this back to Amtrak... Give me a month's notice {preferably 2 month notice} and I can join you on your Sunset trip {at least to El Paso}.
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
I'll probably get in trouble with you guys about this, BUT --- yes, all the AMERICAN auto plants are closing down, yet the JAPANESE auto plants and companies are skyrocketing. (I used to be a Republican, but I don't know if I am any more....) Why do you guys insist on buying foreign cars and sending your hard-earned wages to support a Japanese billionaire sitting in a penthouse office in Tokyo, when you should be using your money and hard-earned wages to support AMERICAN companies?
Buy American!!!!! -- OK, enough of that - let's get back to poassenger rail now!!
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
I still wonder Mike,
If a family is heavily involved in a community, house loans, children in school, etc. how easy is it for them to pull up stakes and go?
One other thing:
When we invaded Iraq, President Bush said we were going in there to remove weapons of mass distruction which were imminently to be used against the US and other allies (hint: you only have to turn the above into a question on google to find the history on this). I do recall that early last year the Administration quietly closed the case on WMD's...none to be found. Oh yes, actually having them and/or planning to have them are two different things. So did Bush lie or was he mistaken, or did he cherry pick the information? Either way, it amounts to a problem in trust for me and many others.
OK, that is the last that I'm going to talk about all this!
Posted by rY (Member # 3528) on :
Wow, David Laney sure has a lot of responsibilities if his speech in Texas covered the auto industry, torture, and presidential misconduct... yeesh.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: Whoops, I have another point. Is Mineta lying? Or is he just too ignorant to know the information he's disseminating is false? I don't know. Personally, I don't think he's a very intelligent person, based on his statements.
You know Mike......
There is at least a 50% chance that you are absolutely right on this one and THAT'S really frightening. Why would the president fail to appoint individuals who are competent? The business about running through a state that doesn't ante up without stopping is just ludicrous!
OK.......I absolutely am off this thread now. I'll even resist the urge to debate the razor thin line between humiliation and torture (though it has something to do with the use of jumper cables!).
See you on other posts!
Posted by mikesmith (Member # 447) on :
I've deviated far enough away from this "Amtrak" forum, myself. If anyone wants to continue this discussion, please do it via email.
mws@wt.net
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Oh no! Now I have to go off topic in another direction because RRRICH has touched on a subject I feel almost as passionate about as passenger rail.
Buy American! Buy local! Keep manufacturing jobs in this country! But the American automobile industry is not a good argument for doing that. That 'Japanese billionaire in Tokyo' probably has a salary much lower than any American auto CEO, and he pays his American workers as well or better than US carmakers. While US automakers moved plants to Canada, Mexico, and Brazil, the Japanese built them here, creating over a million good secure jobs in the USA.
And they earned their increased market share the good old fashioned American way -by building a more reliable product. Consumer Reports does extensive reliability polls of 800,000 car owners a year and not one US company cracks the top ten (all Asian). American cars are improving and have surpassed European makes in reliability, but cars are more reliable and safe because they are competing with the Japanese.
On the other hand, WalMart pressures their suppliers to move their manufacturing plants overseas to reduce labor costs. 80% of their durable goods are manufactured overseas because they want it that way. Small businesses are being forced out by chains who buy foreign goods, whose CEO's make more money than those anywhere else in the world.
I would love buy an American car if they made the best product, but I will not shop at WalMart no matter how much money I save. And I will drive to my locally owned store to buy my American made products in my perfectly running $14,000 1995 Subaru with 145,000 miles on it, that has survived 2 reckless teenage drivers, proudly carrying the Car and Driver issue that shows it beating a turbo-charged Corvette through a slalom course. And I still am not close to replacing the original clutch or rear brakes.
Posted by bill613a (Member # 4264) on :
B.T. RIDER
I don't believe in "wish lists" but I do think constructive suggestions that have some possibility of being implemented are what rail supporters should be out there pushing for. The recent comments by Laney and Hughes are ones that need to be pursued. Your comments on the western region are valid ones. The extension of one of the San Joaquins to LA is doable but SP and now UP have vehemently opposed this due to heavy traffic density so at present it probably isn't in the cards. A second west coast train is not possible now due to equipment shortages but one of the Surfliners is scheduled to be extended to San Francisco by 2007. The Sunset has been a sore point since May of 1971 due to its tardiness and tri-weekly schedule. However now with the Katrina catastrophe there is an opportunity to take some bold steps in bolstering this train. Using the Texas Eagle as the "core train" Chi-DFW-EP-TUSC-LA thru service to New Orleans could continue via Fort Worth and Houston. The schedule woild need to be adjusted but it has been adjusted before. Why not a daylight run from Arizona to LA and direct and marketable service from the midwest and Texas to southwest area cities? The status quo just isn't good enough any more.
Posted by jgart56 (Member # 3968) on :
bill613a,
I like the idea of using the Eagle as a core train. Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have my railroad atlas with me. Is New Orleans via Fort Worth and Houston UP or BNSF?
Status Quo not cutting it is right...how do we grow the thing both incrementally and smartly? Maybe we could send a list of ideas to David Laney and David Hughes, it might give them food for thought.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by jgart56: I still wonder Mike,
If a family is heavily involved in a community, house loans, children in school, etc. how easy is it for them to pull up stakes and go?
If you don't have a job, ease has nothing to do with it if you have any sense of responsiblilty, you just do what you have to do have another one. I have done it several times. I have no sympathy what so ever for a person who has no job but could get one if he got off his butt and went somewhere else.
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