I'm now ready to start planning the 2007 Canadian Rockies trip with my friend and have several options, if anyone has any input. The basic question is, which would you do, take VIA Rail Toronto to Jasper, for the experience, or take it Jasper to Vancouver, for the scenery, when either way we hope to take Rocky Mountaineer (even though it's way overpriced!!!)
Option #1 Maple Leaf to Toronto, overnight or two there VIA Rail over 2 nights to Jasper (sleeper? upper & lower berth?), overnight in Jasper car rental or bus Jasper to Banff area, 2-3 nights in area Rocky Mountaineer overnight Banff to Vancouver (very expensive!), overnight there Taglo or bus down to Seattle, overnight or two there Empire Builder to Chicago (using Guest Rewards for sleeper), Lakeshore Ltd back east (probably pay for sleeper if not too dear)
Option #2 Empire line to NYP & Regional to DC Capitol Ltd overnight to Chicago, probably with sleeper, possible overnight in Chicago Empire Builder over two nights to Seattle & bus to Vancouver, overnight there EDITED: OR CA Zephyr to Sacramento, using guest reward point for sleeper; then Coast Starlight to Seattle, overnight or two there, then up to Vancouver, overnight there, then Rocky Mountaineer overnight to Banff 2-3 nights Banff area winding up in Jasper, overnight there VIA Rail Canadian Jasper to Vancouver & on to Seattle, EB home, with Guest Reward points for sleeper; Lakeshore Ltd eastbound fr Chicago (not Capital Ltd)
Two more questions:
(1) If we take the Rocky Mountaineer, is it OK just to go between Banff and Vancouver or should we include the Banff-Calgary part?
(2) Is it OK to do this trip in the second half of May, weatherwise? I'd hate to get out to Vancouver and find the Rocky Mountaineer canceled due to snow!
Thanks for your input.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
If it were to be my choice I would opt for #2. We took the train to Seattle, rented a car there and drove to Banff,the ice fields parkway(fantastic), stayed in a great cottage in the middle of Jasper and then drove to Vancouver. The road followed much of the same views as the train. It was spectactular. We have driven most of Saskatuan(spelling?)and Ontario and I understand that Manatoba is not too interesting either. What I am trying to say is I would rather spend the money on the spectactular scenery than the ordinary. We went in May and had no problems. It did snow while we were out on the Athabaska Glacier but it didn't deter anyone and the roads were all clear. There were 6 foot piles of snow along the roadside but that also didn't deter us either. If it is at all possible try to arrange a trip down the icefields parkway. Around every turn we just gasped at the beauty.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
I would take option #1. The Canadian travels through the praries at night, and the Jasper-Kamloops portion is at daylight. But I'd ride the Brewster bus Jasper-Banff, and Rocky Mountaineer to Vancouver. It overnights in Kamloops and continues on the next day. Also, the Empire Builder is more scenic on its Eastbound trip if you get up early enough to be in the lounge car at datbreak, when it is going by Glacier National Park. The scenery gets less interesting as the day progresses. This is an improvement over the Westbound trip, when the train stops at a lot of prarie towns in N. Dakota-Montana. Disappointment ensues when the Rockies appear just a short time before sundown. And I'd rather spend my non-traveling time in Banff than Calgary. To me, a day in a picturesque town is more important than the mileage from Calgary. As for beds on the Canadian, even the berths are supposedly bigger than in the sleepers, the berths don't afford much privacy in the daytime.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Sojourner - I would take option #1! But why not go all the way from Toronto to Vancouver on the Canadian, then take the Rocky Mountaineer back from Vancouver to Kamloops or Banff?
Anyway, it sounds like a great trip! You always plan your trips so far ahead of time!!!!!! This is for 2007, right? I imagine you'll have your 2010-2015 trips planned within a couple weeks now, eh? (hee-hee! Just joking!!)
--Rich
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Thanks for your comments--more are welcome!
Jerome, Thanks for your reminder that the EB isn't so nice going west; I have edited Option 2 above to consider the Zephyr westbound so that other people giving input see I would consider that too. What I'm saying is, EB vs Zephyr shouldn't come into the decision now; and from your comments & others, I'm very determined to take the Rocky Mountaineer, in spite of the cost. So the main question still remains, is better to take the Canadian from Toronto to Jasper (and spend more money and never see the Canadian Jasper to Vancouver), or is it better to go out and back to Vancouver using Amtrak, which I can do for less money but suffer the diminishing amenities of Amtrak both ways, and get a sleeper for just 1 night on the Canadian between Jasper & Vancouver? i.e., In #A, we are kind of duplicating the old Trans-Canada route, with a portion using buses (or car rental, but that is less likely) and the Banff-to-Vancouver now on a private line. In the other, it's the poor ole Amtrak for me (with my friend probably flying out west) before we make a "golden triangle" in the Canadian Rockies.
I have been on the EB and Zephyr before and will be on both of them again this year so unlike the Canadian, those won't be new to me. My friend is less a train person but would be willing to take the Canadian out with me if we do #1; if we do #2, I think she'd most likely fly, at least one way, probably in lieu of the Zephyr/Coast Starlight (I don't think she could endure the tardiness of the Coast Starlight, but I'm not sure); and perhaps she would fly both ways (probably to Seattle, rather than Vancouver; I think we would meet there if I'm training it).
Rich: The reason I cannot go all the way to Vancouver & back to Banff is that it becomes too much of a backtrack. I cannot afford VIA Rail both ways, and my friend will likely want to fly back from Vancouver or Seattle. I did also think of the "dream trip," which would be VIA Rail all the way to Vancouver, Rocky Mountain to Banff, bus or car up to Jasper, then Skeena from Jasper to Prince Rupert, then ferry to Prince Hardy, then down Vancouver Island with bus and VIA to Victoria, & Victoria Clipper to Seattle, and home. But alas, I cannot afford the time or cost of that either--especially since I will be in Victoria (and taking the Clipper) THIS year (my 2006 trip). And my friend does not want to do the Skeena too, so it would leave her in Jasper with no way to get back except to backtrack to Vancouver, which she won't want to do either. Maybe some day I'd get a rail pass and do the whole thing plus the Skeena both ways in coach or something . . .
Posted by Grandma Judy (Member # 3278) on :
Rocky Mountaineer runs trains during the Christmas holidays, so I'm not sure if winter delays are likely (always possible due to a freak blizzard, but probably a rare occurrence.)
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
An especially happy birthday to me this month: on VIA if your age is 60+, you can take a companion for free.
Posted by Vicki (Member # 3410) on :
quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: An especially happy birthday to me this month: on VIA if your age is 60+, you can take a companion for free.
Happy Birthday! Take me! Take me! Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I don't think it's free, TwinStar; I think it's 75% off. That, in fact, is the only way we can even consider it (my friend is just past 60)! However, we are not sure it will apply to 2007; if not, we know we will have to forego VIA from Toronto, but I think they likely will continue having it, as they have the past 5 years. It's called "senior companion," btw.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
Depending on how much you are willing to spend, another possibility is as follows: 1. Canadian Toronto-Vancouver 2. Rocky Mountaineer Vancouver-Banff 3. Brewster Tourbus Banff-Jasper 4. Rocky Mountaineer Fraser Discovery Route Jasper-Whistler, connecting with Whistler Mountaineer Whistler-Vancouver. This also might be taken in the other direction 4-3-2. The Fraser Discovery is a new service by Rocky Mountain Railtours using the former BC Rail route that has spectacular scenery. It uses the same equipment as the other RM's, but can't go into Vancouver on that route because of tunnel clearance. So they use a single-level train to take travelers into-out of Vancouver. You might be able to get a package through an agent. But I understand about cost. My philosophy, however, is that anything worth doing is worth doing well. And life is not a dress rehearsal. I would find a way to ride all three.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Sojourner: I looked it up on www.viarail.com and we are both right, depending on the class:
"Bring a friend for FREE! Take advantage of the standard seniors' discount and get a FREE ticket in Comfort class (Economy) for the significant other, friend or child accompanying you! In VIA 1 and sleeper classes we offer you up to 75% off your travel companion's fare!"
Whenever I write my Congress critters I tell them where my tourist dollars are going (Canada) if the LD's go away.
And Vicki, if you can hop on the Empire Builder I will pick you up in St. Paul and we can drive to Winnipeg, or some VIA station where I can leave my car. I prefer to travel west.
Posted by jp1822 (Member # 2596) on :
Jerome Nicholson has a great itinerary. I am actually trying the Rocky Mountaineer's new service (Fraser Discovery) this summer. Looking forward to it.
Otherwise, I did the following routing a few years ago, and it was the best trip I have ever been on. Met up with friends and relatives along the way, plus had some time for me!
1. NYP - Toronto (Amtrak- Maple Leaf) 2. Toronto to Jasper (Via- Canadian) 3. Couple of nights in Jasper sighseeing, touring etc. 4. Jasper to Prince Rupert (Via- Skeena - Totem Deluxe is my preference of class) 5. Fly from Prince Rupert to Vancouver, few nights in Vancouver and Victoria sightseeing, touring etc. 6. Vancouver to Banff (Rocky Mountaineer) 7. Banff to Jasper (Rental Car - price was fair) 8. Jasper to Vancouver (Canadian) 9. Vancouver to Seattle (Amtrak Cascades) 10. Seattle to Chicago (Empire Builder) 11. Chicago to East Coast (Capitol Limited)
- I would definitely take the time to experience the Canadian from Toronto to Jasper. Once I took the Canadian, I have been back at least once a year for an annual cross-Canadian journey.
- I don't think the extra ride from Banff to Calgary is worth it, especially if you are trying to make your way back north.
- I am not sure how long VIA's Skeena will survive in its current form (with Totem and Totem Deluxe) now that the Rocky Mountaineer has invaded part of its turf. I really hope this train survives - its a real gem, the Skeena. If you can squeeze it in, I'd do it. They are cutting this service back this year to three days per week during peak season (from four days a week). They wanted to extend the Skeena to Edmonton, but doesn't look like this will pan out. Prince Rupert to Vancouver is about a 2 hour plane ride. If you do go to Prince Rupert - I recommend the Crest Hotel (waterside). It's very nice and not too expensive. I was surprised with Prince Rupert - there's some really nice things to do in the area.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Thank you all so much for your input. My friend has decided on what she wants to do based on your input and also her desire to stop in Chicago, a city to which she has (surprisingly) never been! (whereas she has been in Toronto a lot and going there wouldn't matter to her). So we are going to do the "golden triangle," with her flying out to meet me in Seattle; then we will go to Vancouver and do the triangle, and she will come back with me on the Empire Builder and we will overnight in Chicago before heading east. We will save the Trans-Canadian experience for another time and get our taste of VIA Rail sleepers only between Jasper and Vancouver on this go-round. (I definitely want to go across Canada and take the Skeena--if I have to go on my own, I'll get a rail pass and go coach if I must!)
But now I have two VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT questions: (1) I know the Rocky Mountaineer is all in the daytime, so I don't mind going in either direction; but for the VIA RAIL between Jasper and Vancouver, which is nicer, westbound or eastbound? (2) Are there better days of the week on which to travel on both that and the Rocky Mountaineer? Thanks so much in advance for your input.
Posted by jp1822 (Member # 2596) on :
I can speak to the VIA Rail question. It doesn't matter too much. If I had to make a choice and I was traveling in the summer with maximum daylight, I'd chose the easbound route - Vancouver to Jasper. More daylight leaving Vancouver. Just be sure to wakeup early the next day to see scenery as you arrive into Jasper.
You'll miss the mountains from Edmonton to Jasper, but you can put this towards your next trip when you do a cross-country Canadian journey. Westbound, the train is usually early into Vancouver so you don't see much coming into Vancouver - other than outskirts of the city. But consider westbound, you'll have daylight till around 9:30 p.m. However, there's a chance the train could be late into Jasper (on the westbound trek), and this could affect what you see in the mountains. VIA though has much better time keeping than Amtrak.
I'm travelling Vancouver to Jasper in June and opted for eastbound. Will be a nice change, as I usually take the Canadian wesbound.
Posted by MILW (Member # 2538) on :
IMHO, The Rocky Mountaineer is worth every penny. I hear a lot of railfans say it is overpriced. You have to look at the trip as one you probably won't repeat. You also have to look at the service they provide and attempt to price it seperately (especially the hotels). I took the Gold Leaf Gold Circle trip 2-3 years ago. It was spectacular. If I did the trip on my own in the same first class hotels it would have cost somewhat less but not dramatically less.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Great--we'll do VIA eastbound and Rocky Mountaineer west.
About how many nights would you stay in the Jasper-to-Banff area before heading back on the Rocky Mountaineer? Would four nights all together be enough? Or should we do six (we can't do five because I don't think RM runs that day)? Would it be better to stay 2 nights Jasper, 2 nights Lake Louise, 2 nights Banff (if we do 6 nights?) or 2 nights in Jasper, 4 nights in Banff, using that as a base (esp if we don't rent a car)? Or would just 1 night in Jasper be enough (the train gets in lunch time)? What about Emerald Lake?
What is driving like the end of May? This is what I am REALLY worried about--that snow will be a problem if we rent a car. But the packaged Brewster bus tours are more expensive and don't seem as much fun. Could we stay in Jasper and take a bus to Jasper National Park? And then take a Brewster bus (no tour) down to Lake Louise and take a bus around there? And then take another Brewster bus down to Banff? And maybe take a day tour or two of the glacier?
Any input welcome. I'd love to rent a car, but I'm really concerned that if we rent do, we will be on the "skids." People I know who went to the Canadian Rockies (a) flew there and (b) rented a car, but they went in the summer, and late May really isn't summer. . . .
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Unless things have changed since we were there you don't need a day for the glacier. You get on their special bus at headquarters.They drive you to the glacier. You get off and walk around ,take your pictures and then get back on the bus and go back to headquarters. As I said in an earlier post we were there in early May and had no trouble with the roads.We rented the car in Seattle and drove up to Banff and then Jasper. We made a short stop at Lake Louise,The lake was frozen over so we took pictures and then left. There was really no reason to stay there. The drive up the parkway was spectacular, magnificant and over whelming in terms of beauty. My husband, the pilot , said it was an easy drive. The road was totally clear/ All the snow was piled up along the side.One nice thing was it was not crowded being early in the season. If you wander around in Jaspeer as we did be aware you will have to share the streets and walks with the moose who wander freely all over the place.Some of the scenic places weren't open for visitors yet so I suggest you check before you go to see what is available before you decide how many days you want to stay where.
Posted by Ken V (Member # 1466) on :
Although Canada may be "The Great White North", to try to allay your concerns about snow, it is very rare for it to snow in the Jasper/Banff area in May. In Jasper, according to Environment Canada (our version of the National Weather Service), the average high/low temps for May are 15.8°C/2.4°C (60.4°F/36.3°F) and the average snowfall is 1.4 cm (0.6 in). The record snow depth for the end of May was 5 cm (2") in 1955 and the record snowfall was 22.1 cm (8.7") on May 16, 1933. Compared with upstate New York in winter, this doesn't seem too bad.
As to taking the Canadian east or west between Jasper and Vancouver, here are some more statistics:
Eastbound: dp Jasper 3:30pm ar Vancouver 7:50am Westbound: dp Vancouver 5:30pm ar Jasper 11:00am Jasper (MDT on May 20) Sunset: 9:25pm Sunrise: 5:39am Vancouver (PDT on May 20) Sunset: 8:52pm Sunrise: 5:22am
Travelling west from Jasper to Vancouver should provide for a bit more daylight, but the spectacular Fraser River canyon, out of Vancouver, would be best viewed going east, and Mount Robson should be passed in daylight in either direction.
It's been almost 20 years since I last visited there but remember enjoying Banff the most with Lake Louise second and Jasper third, but all were wonderful. And the Icefields Parkway shouldn't need more than half a day.
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