I met Sunset train 1 about an hour ago. Beaumont is a change of crew stop, so I chatted with the crew. They said in the near future Sunset will return to service east of New Orleans. Don't ask what is meant by near future. BTW, anyway to post a few pictures my 7 year old cousin took of the Sunset at Beaumont?
Posted by Boyce (Member # 2719) on :
One can only hope!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Likewise. Hope to see the Sunset east of NOL....and soon.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
The Sunset if full again. All seats are taken. Why don't they add a coach. Good grief.
Posted by Benson (Member # 4421) on :
gp35, how can the restoration be soon when the status of the track is up in the air? Mississippi is still trying to move the tracks, which would eliminate Amtrak service altogether. NARP also says that Amtrak is still talking to the Gulf Coast states about different possible options, so I don't think anyone knows for sure whether the Sunset is coming back east or not. I hope they're right though. Are you sure that's what they said?
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
I was just repeating what they said. Besides, even if they move the tracks north of I-10 doesn't mean Amtrak service is eliminated. Amtrak would just use the new tracks. And they won't pull up the old tracks until the new tracks are ready.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I believe what has been overlooked, Mr. GP-35, is that "talking to the train crew' is likely one of the least reliable sources of information. Young railfans in their zeal to gather information and post it at a forum with a world wide audience overlook that to give a factual answer could jeapordize that crew member's employment. If factual, the information is likely proprietary. Therefore, you are afforded a nebulous answer such 'they're talking about it'. I guarantee you that is a more courteous answer, if in fact I were even privy to factual information, than you would have received from me; mine would simply be "I'm sorry, but I'm not at liberty to discuss such matters".
It is my understanding that while the Gulf Coast line has been restored to service, it remains unsignaled, or a 'dark railroad'. The line is needed to move building materials to enable the region's reconstruction efforts. Restoration of passenger service is not likely on anyone's, save advocacy groups such as NARP and individuals such as yourself, 'front burner'.
While I acknowledge the possibility that key words such as "and passenger' could easily find their way into the appropriation measure to build a new line inland paralleling I-10, such passenger service would only elicit an indifferent response from the Gulf Coast communities - that is all that could reasonably be expected.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: "I'm sorry, but I'm not at liberty to discuss such matters".
With your chest out and nose high in the air, I would have guess you would be too busy doing your peacock impersonation to notice me.
There is no reason for that person to lie to me or just say "I don't know". I believe the service is coming back.
Posted by BNSF 1088 (Member # 2400) on :
I will tell you this it is not coming back and it does not have anything to due with the track issues.
The Sunset LTD will be the 1st train to get the 180 day notice after June 30th 2006
Posted by SunsetLtd (Member # 3985) on :
quote:Originally posted by BNSF 1088: The Sunset LTD will be the 1st train to get the 180 day notice after June 30th 2006
PLEASE SAY YOUR JOKING!?! Is this for real!?! It can't the 180 day notice! Why do they want to discontinue it? Why can't they take out the Starlight?! It has worse timekeeping!! Plus the Sunset has strong ridership due to high gas prices ! And I will derfinatly fight this!! The Sunset will NOT get the 180 day notice if I have anything to do with this!!!!! Posted by Benson (Member # 4421) on :
gp35, what else did they say about the Sunset? I don't think you heard correctly, or you're making this up, because the status of the track is all up in the air. Amtrak is still talking to the states about the situation.
Posted by BNSF 1088 (Member # 2400) on :
At this point int time all LD trains are in big danger of being pulled off by the Bush Admin that is what this study that ends on June 30th 2006 is about.
There is stil a lot of downgrading going on as i speak more employees in the OBS getting laid off evry week.
This is not a joke it is going to happen but no one knows for what trains and you can't wait until the notices come out because it will be to late.
This is information i got in an e mail can't say from who it is from.
My supervisor would not elaborate, but I can assure you the subject matter is what is to be disscussed in the GAO report hearing before Congress on that date. It should also be noted a "service advisory" memo has been drafted to reflect coming changes around the begining of July. They deal with massive OBS and service cuts on many long distance trains, and the enventual issuance of 180 notices (as prescribed by law) mostly in the West and Mid-West. As far as how the East is to be affected exactly I am not sure of at this time, however, it is still safe to say things will get hairy regarding the service cuts and changes.
Posted by SunsetLtd (Member # 3985) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: I believe the service is coming back. [/QB]
Same Here! I still believe that it is coming back and will stay back in service!
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Sunset don't let the alarmist sky is falling scare you. The high gas prices would be political suicide to end LD trains.
Benson, all day I sit around thinking of ways to fool you.
Mr Norman, this should get your nose waaaaaaaaay in the air. I met the Sunset today. She was back to her old ways, 5 hours late. I talked to a different person today. I asked him about Sunset daily service. GET THIS....He said UP wants the Sunset to go daily. NO LIE. He said UP has trouble scheduling around tri-weekly. He said UP approached Amtrak about daily service. He also said people out of NOL is finally realizing Amtrak his cheaper than Greyhound. He said the numbers are way up. Friday nearly 30 people got off the train in Beaumont. Today, every seat was full. He also said Amtrak problem is it doesn't promote itself. I mentioned Sunset Auto-train. He thought it was a good idea. He said the eastcoast auto-train is very popular and he though it would work on Sunset.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
gp35:
You must understand when you deal with the politics of Amtrak, you are in a logic-free zone, so that it would be unreasonable to discontinue the long distance trains in the face of drastically increased gasoline prices has no bearing on the political outcome of the issue.
At this point, there are loud noises about reducing the Amtrak appropriation. Regardless of logic, that would mean a cut in the long distance trains, even though the real money pit is the northeast, because the hgih population means a lot of representatives from that area. Remember, politics is not doing what needs to be done but looking like you are doing something that is perceived by the press as needing to be done.
The track across the gulf coast has been back in place for months, bridges and all, and the bridges, at least that at Bay St. Louis was rebuilt in the most permanent manner possible, so the idea that the track is back in a just to get by condition is not true, at least as far as CSX is concerned. AS to whether the signals system has been restored, that I do not know. If the capacity is there to move the number of trains carried, the presence or absence of the signal system will not have a lot of bearing on the run time because the line already had a lot of speed restrictions due to multiple road crossings and drawbridges, adn if following the former L&N maximum, you are only dealing with a reduction of the maximum from 70 mph ot 59 mph, which is unlikely to cost you over 10 minutes, and more like 5 minutes, over the full New Orleans to Mobile distance.
George
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
While not for one monent, Mr. GP-35, am I disputing that you are reporting at the Forum anything other than what you learned from a discussion with an Amtrak Train/Engine crewmember. However, with that being said, I again wish to admonish you with regards to the credibility of 'talking to the train crew' as an unrefuted information source. This of course is made more difficult when these persons are "telling you what you WANT to hear". People have a tendency to hear with great clarity when such is the case.
Oral inquiry is of course an accepted investigative technique, but it is simply the first step. From there an investigation should lead to documentation to be reviewed in order to best establish a position regarding the matter at hand.
Obviously in any kind of judicial proceeding, where one side has witnesses who will "swear up and down" to statements made, yet the other side has documentation establishing the contrary, guess who is going to win?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Some off-topic thoughts coming to mind after reviewing Mr.Harris' material:
At this point, there are loud noises about reducing the Amtrak appropriation. Regardless of logic, that would mean a cut in the long distance trains, even though the real money pit is the northeast, because the high population means a lot of representatives from that area.
I would hope that the reason for 'feeding the NEC money pit' at the expense of the relatively 'cheap' LD system, is that the former provides transportation that people actually use in volume to such extent that its absence would cause unreasonable, and in the long term, un sustainable burden on other transport infrastructure.
While I don't for one moment dispute Mr. GP-35's observations of abundant 'faces and fannies' aboard 1-2, it is nevertheless a 'six a week' operation and can hardly be providing much in the way of usable transportation to the region served. The Corridor likely boards more passengers in 15 minutes than the Sunset boards in an entire year.
As I have noted both here and elsewhere, the LD's are "at a crossroad'. While "cheap' (my estimate is about $300M per annum in truly 'avoidable' costs - that means $900M of appropriation left for the "money pit'), any expenditures made to the Class I's are completely avoidable, i.e. no go, no dough. Secondly, most of the LD' fleet is approaching the end of its economic life, and further if there is to be any meaningful expansion of the LD system, let alone continuation of the existing, not only will the S-I and A-II fleets need to be replaced, track capacity will have to be increased. The only source for such is public funding and if it were to develop, let alone the Class I's permit it, that would make the LD's mighty...mighty expensive, and a target for every sling and arrow a democratic republic could throw their way.
Posted by dixiebreeze (Member # 3224) on :
I will simply have faith. The Sunset will be restored. Thank you.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Mr Harris, the gulf coast line is in better shape today then it ever was before Katrina. CSX is fighting the move because they put so much money into repairing the line. BTW, I don't think that line was signaled before Katrina. Also Lott doesn't have much support in congress for the project. The only reason the project is not dead is because Lott is playing on the fears of the public.
Mr Norman, I don't believe everything I hear. I don't know if any of those things I was told is true. I post it because it's interesting. I would like to hear the information you hear and everyone hear, true or not. If we had to verify every bit of information, nobody would have anything to say.
I noticed increase riders on Sunset. Try making reservations. The conductor said they are seeing huge numbers never seen before. Amtrak knows tri-weekly is holding back Sunset potential.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. GP-35, what I believe is important to note is that I am quite mindful you have identified the source of your reports, namely Amtrak T&E crews en/detraining at Beaumont, and I respect you for that.
While I disagree about the propriety of postings that are supported by little beyond "I just heard...." at a major rail forum with a world wide audience, I am neither an owner nor administrator at this site. Folks with those titles make the call regarding what is and is not acceptable editorial content here. By way of reference I consider "I just observed (as example) a Sunset with a comfortable load" more credible than the other.
Regarding the proposed new inland Gulf Coast line, any decision to move forth would be ill-timed - especially after CSX took $$$ from "the commonwealth' of you, Mr. Harris, Ms. Dixie, and I in the form of insurance proceeds to rebuild the existing line. If the Katrina devastation as well as the all too great possibility of such occurring again was the signal that a new line inland was needed, then the existing line should have only been "patched up' to the extent needed to move local traffic and the earth movers should be "doing their thing' inland at this moment.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Mr Norman, "I just heard" is all it is, nothing more. I didn't get the information from Amtrak president. Let it go. I doubt anyone is planning a trip around a "I just heard".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Once again, Mr GP-35, I respect you for that you have clearly labeled your sourced postings as just that.
Posted by Benson (Member # 4421) on :
gp35, in what context did the crew talk about the return of the Sunset? Did they just say that it's coming back, or did they say it's coming back while providing evidence it's coming back, such as..."Amtrak and the states have come to an agreement to bring the train back and blah blah blah"? Maybe they just wanted to make your day by saying it's coming back, so the context in which it was said is real important.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
lol...You mean like a kid asking if Santa is coming. They provided no evidence nor did I ask. As if they carry around secret Amtrak plans. It was an informal "it's coming back in the near future", ok.....
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
gp35, et al: Let me assure you that it is an absolute certainty that before Katrina the CSX Gulf Coast Line had CTC signaling and that it has been in place for many years. At the time of my relatively brief employment by the L&N in the late 60's, the entire Cincinatti to New Orleans main line had signalling, and most of that was CTC except for ABS in the double track sections around Louisville and through Birmingham. Employee timetable of much more recent vintage that I have seen still show the entire Montgomery to New Orleans main as having CTC signal protection. The Florida Panhandle line from Flomaton, Alabama through Pensacola to Chatahoochie Florida has never had signals, nor the former SAL portion between Talahassee and Chatahoochie. This still being true to my certain knowledge as of about 2003, and probably unchanged since then. The line east of Talahassee has CTC, and again that has been in place for 40 plus years.
If anything is ever done to relocate the Mississippi Gulf Coast Line it should be by a distance of about 25 feet, straight up. Do a double track viaduct on the current relatively straight alignment. Build roadways on either side of it, leaving the tracks in the median. Where necessary, tracks can go out over the roadways for industrial connections. This will not be cheap, but I would bet that it would be a lot cheaper than a relocation to a new alignment.
With two tracks, a relatively frequent passenger service could in the future be instituted between New Orleans and Mobile.
George
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
That would be very expensive. If I was dictator, I would add to your plan by running the line north of NOL direct to Baton Rouge.(I-12 corridor) I will still have a line to NOL but most freight traffic would bypass NOL.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: I asked him about Sunset daily service. GET THIS....He said UP wants the Sunset to go daily. NO LIE. He said UP has trouble scheduling around tri-weekly. He said UP approached Amtrak about daily service.
At the risk of offending Mr Norman with frivolous grapevine gossip, I heard (source unknown, but probably Trains mag) that there is and always has been a slot for a daily Amtrak on UP rails. Whether that applied east of NOL on CSX I don't know.
Geoff M.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
I wonder why Amtrak resisted going daily. Sunset could be profitable if ran correctly.
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
In this heated yet gentlemanly debate, I will come down on the side of the dapper dogwalking gentleman from Clarendon Hills. After a long career in the passenger rail service sector, I'd put "crew predictions" one notch above what one reads on the raw internet; namely, not too reliable. Whether it would lead to getting the crew member in hot water, Mr. N., I'd say probably not. Crews do far worse things than chat amiably wiith friendly rail fans in their minute or two at a depot. But while I certainly admire your use of the English language in your posts, I still cannot yet ascertain if you walk your ***, or your *** walks you, from the times I think I have spotted you while riding by 18.34 on Metra or Amtk 347/348. It's a classic "chicken and egg" conundrum...
Posted by Amtrak207 (Member # 1307) on :
There's that evil canine word again; you have to say 'pooch' or something like that, kind of silly, but it remains three years after it came up.
As with what happened in 2001 (and repeatedly before and after that) Amtrak is fighting to get their subsidy. The House committee recommended 900 million (bad) but members of the committee, acknowledging the budget was tight, also commented publicly about finding additional funding (good). This is typically what happens; The admin and house propose low, and the public, Amtrak, and the senate respond (sometimes screaming, other times threatening shutdown) to get the figure back up again. I also disagree that the Superliner I and Amfleet II cars are near the end of their service lives. If it weren't for the lawyers versus retention and treatment issue, I'm certain there would still be more heritage cars out there, and they are well over 50 years old. When is the idea of the disposable car going to fall out of favor? It's not like the Am II coaches were built like an Escort, so when it breaks, it can be fixed. There are no structural issues with these cars, so why near the end of the line as you say?
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amtrak207: I also disagree that the Superliner I and Amfleet II cars are near the end of their service lives. If it weren't for the lawyers versus retention and treatment issue, I'm certain there would still be more heritage cars out there, and they are well over 50 years old. When is the idea of the disposable car going to fall out of favor? It's not like the Am II coaches were built like an Escort, so when it breaks, it can be fixed. There are no structural issues with these cars, so why near the end of the line as you say?
It is the old thought of "design service life"
You have to plug something like that into the contract, but anything well built will last a lot longer. It is very obvious that a stainless steel car that manages to avoid wreck damage will last almost indefinitely.
Same applies to structures. There was this absolutely rediculous report on the Mississippi River bridge at Vicksburg that is used by KCS, but is owned by Warren County, Mississippi. A report noted that the bridge (opened 1930) was nearing the end of its design service life of eighty years, so they should start thinking about replacing it. This ignoring the fact that, 1. the Vicksburg bridge is in very good condition and for many years the volume of rail traffic has been relatively light, and 2. the first railroad bridge across the lower river, the bridge at Memphis used by BNSF was opened in 1892, is now 114 years old and still being used without weight or clearance restrictions. Of course, this bridge gets careful inspection and maintenance to keep it that way.
George
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amtrak207: There's that evil canine word again; you have to say 'pooch' or something like that, kind of silly, but it remains three years after it came up.
Amtk207 or others: Off-topic, but I am vexed about this "dawg word racism." Why cannot we post the simple word Dee Oh Gee without it being turned into ***asterisks*** by the site software? Please tell me the backstory of this tawdry affair. Thank you, RR Bob with his DAWG in the Hobo Jungle. Mulligan, anyone? Posted by Amtrak207 (Member # 1307) on :
I think it's hard-wired into the software used for this bulletin board, so to remove it would require rewriting the source code. It's kind of like the e-mail filtering software used by a lot of public orgainzations. I can't write about attending a choral concert focusing on doo-wop music because that W-word will not pass the filter. I guess people cannot police themselves and this is what it takes to prevent lawsuits. Sad, really.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
I don't understand either. Hopefully the moderator is reading these posts now and then and can fill us in on this. I think it is a glitch in the software. That is the ONLY word which is "filtered out" of our discussions here, and that word (D-O-G - definition: a canine pet, "Man's best friend") has absolutely ZERO religious, racist, or political connotation to it, and it certainly is NOT a "cuss word."
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: I don't understand either. Hopefully the moderator is reading these posts now and then and can fill us in on this. I think it is a glitch in the software. That is the ONLY word which is "filtered out" of our discussions here, and that word (D-O-G - definition: a canine pet, "Man's best friend") has absolutely ZERO religious, racist, or political connotation to it, and it certainly is NOT a "cuss word."
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Is this for real!?! It can't the 180 day notice! Why do they want to discontinue it? Why can't they take out the Starlight?! It has worse timekeeping!! Plus the Sunset has strong ridership due to high gas prices ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
! And I will derfinatly fight this!! The Sunset will NOT get the 180 day notice if I have anything to do with this!!!!! ![[Mad]](mad.gif)