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A new Amtrak train. Miami-Jacksonville-Savannah-Augusta-Spartanburg-ASHEVILLE- Knoxville-overnight to Lexington-Louisville-Indy-Chicago.
[ 06-08-2006, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Moderator ]
Edith Member # 3100
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I would love. I'm in Jacksonville and need to go to Chicago often. Would love not having to go to DC first and change trains.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Let's name it the "Gerrymander Express".
rresor Member # 128
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Something close to that service actually existed. Southern ran through cars from Cincinatti to Charleston, SC (Line Street Station). Train 27-28 ran Cincinnati -- Harriman -- Knoxville -- Asheville -- Spartanburg -- Columbia -- Charleston in 1956.
And of course there were still multiple daily frequencies Cincinnati to Jax via Chattanooga and Atlanta. These carried through cars from Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago that were handled south of Jax by FEC.
palmland Member # 4344
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That will not happen - CSX coal trains fight for a slot on that route so you would be swimming against the flow. More likely would be Jax-Savannah-Atlanta-Knoxville-Cinci connecting to the Cardinal route for Chicago.
delvyrails Member # 4205
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Whatever the exact routing, the Lakes-to-Gulf long-haul corridor is one of the two or three most glaring omissions in the present Amtrak network.
In NARP's archives are listed the most-travelled metro-pairs. Among the top 50 long-haul corridors are Chicago-Orlando, Chicago-Tampa, Atlanta-Orlando, Atlanta-West Palm Beach, and Atlanta-Detroit.
If you search "2000 Census", you can find a list of all metro areas ranked by population. Some of the largest are unserved by the present Amtrak network, notably Nashville and Louisville.
Nuff said.
gp35 Member # 3971
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: That will not happen - CSX coal trains fight for a slot on that route so you would be swimming against the flow. More likely would be Jax-Savannah-Atlanta-Knoxville-Cinci connecting to the Cardinal route for Chicago.
We'll build a long siding for that coal train.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Pawson--
Now that the topic discussion seems to be directing itself towards Chicago-Florida service via any routing, there is still the unrefuted matter that capacity over any routing is strained.
Also because of the terrain, there is simply no way that rail travel times can be competitive in the Chi-Fla market; this is not the case with NY-Fla markets.
Regarding intermediate stops of note, obviously the most important would be Atlanta, however, the two historic routes in place on A-Day eve both did not serve that city. Proposals to offer Chi-Nashville have been off the table since the Kentucky Cardinal was discontinued.
I sincerely believe Amtrak tried to put its best foot forward with the Floridian. I can recall an end to end ride during 1977 where the consist included 2 Sleepers 2 Domes Diner and Lounge. Try to find any train today that matches that amount of non revenue space. But travel time was not even in the league with "sane' drive times including an overnight stop.
Of interest: CHI-57-JAX for the July 1978 TT issue was 30'40"; today CHI-30-WAS-91-JAX is 36'15". Since "type-A's need not apply' regarding LD rail travel, there is still an alt route of sorts available.
That's all from me for a while; Mr. GP-35 and others who think I am the gloom and doom spokesman around here, take note that I am off to first Wash then NY and return - on Amtrak!!!!
gp35 Member # 3971
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Enjoy your trip. Don't forget to take off your watch. Watches off for any Chicago-Florida route too.
Vicki Member # 3410
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: I sincerely believe Amtrak tried to put its best foot forward with the Floridian. I can recall an end to end ride during 1977 where the consist included 2 Sleepers 2 Domes Diner and Lounge. Try to find any train today that matches that amount of non revenue space.
Oh, how I loved that train!!
Geoff M Member # 153
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The Floridian - 52 and 53 to St Petersburg, and 92 and 93 to Miami - had timings of around 27 hours in 1972 and 30 hours in 1975 (CHI-JAX, to compare with Mr Norman). Extended running time was due to poor time keeping... deja vu?
For comparison, the South Wind did CHI-JAX in just 24 hours in 1956.
E&OE
Geoff M.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Yes, yes, yes. I would ride such a train ALL of the time.
Believe it or not, my most frequent driving destinations from home (20 miles north of Asheville) are Casselberry, FL and Lexington, KY.
I would love nothing more than to be able to board a train in Asheville (with a through Viewliner sleeper of course) about supper time and ride southward through Spartanburg, Columbia (connecting to the Silver Star), and disembark shortly after breakfast in Winter Park, FL. This schedule would roughly equate the old Southern Railway 'Skyland Special' which was already long gone when I took my first intercity train ride.
BUT.......here's why it won't work. MILEPOST 32 between East Flat Rock and Zirconia, NC. There is a rail removed and a mound of ballast on the right-of-way. Norfolk Southern embargoed the Saluda Mountain line between Asheville and Spartanburg in December 2002. I was working within earshot of the line at Tuxedo, NC at the time and thought I heard (maybe imagined) a work train move over the line in April 2003. While some plants are serviced on either end, the middle of the 67 mile route is out-of-service. One or two rails were turned aside in the fall of 2003 and the ballast dumped to isolate the portion not in use.
Ironically, the freight diverted from this line now operates over Old Fort Mountain to Salisbury. Norfolk Southern now uses this 'upsurge' in traffic on Old Fort Mountain as one of several reasons to oppose operating a state-supported passenger train to Asheville.
And the dance continues..........
George Harris Member # 2077
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There was up to about the mid 50's the "Skyline Special" (If that is not exact it is close) that took about 14 hours Asheville to Jacksonville. With a restored track up Saluda, it would be do-able today because use of the CSX line between Columbia and Savannah would be faster than the parallel and now abandoned Southern line of the 50's. This was a very slow schedule, averaging barely over 30 mph end to end, so to say that it could still be done is nt exactly glowing praise.
Other than the fast three, City of Miami, South Wind, and Dixie Flagler, Chicago to Jacksonville service was always around 30 hours plus, usually two nights and a day. This being true for such trains as the Dixie Flyer, Royal Palm, Southland, all of which went through Atlanta. There were also two day plus one night trains such as the Ponce de Leon and the Flamingo, which then connected with rather slow overnight trains from Jacksonville to Tampa, St. Pete, and Miami, but the late evening departures from Chicago seemed to have better ridership.
The fast three all had departures of about 9:00 from Chicago and about 9:45 next morning arrivalas in Jacksonville, but only the Dixie Flagler went through Atlanta, and only it ran on track that is all still in place. It was also the first of the three to die, sometime in the late 50's. Unfortunately, under today's conditions, the schedule would be impossible to reproduce.
delvyrails Member # 4205
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The "wandering through south Georgia" Floridian must have been the most tedious routing to Florida, avoiding the most significant place on the Great Lakes-to-Florida route, Atlanta.
Agree that until there is a solution to the railroad capacity problem, the thrust should be to develop Amtrak where capacity exists. Two moves that would give Amtrak better access to the top 50 markets would be:
1. a Southwest Limited spur train, Flagstaff-Wickenberg-Phoenix-Tucson with through cars to and from Chicago (CHI-PHX and DEN-PHX markets), and
2. no-change service between Philadelphia and Chicago (PHL-CHI and PHL-LAX major markets).
Also given Auto Train's successes relative to its passengers-only alternates, the Silver trains, let's think about how to add some auto carrier cars to some regular Amtrak LD trains.
Auto Train's revenue per passenger mile is about 60% more than the average LD train. At that level, every LD train's bottom line could use the revenue from 16 to 64 more long distance passengers (one to four auto cars) traveling Amtrak with their POVs.
palmland Member # 4344
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Another way to get from Florida to Chicago without adding a lot of new route miles would be to have through cars off one of the Silver service trains at Richmond then over the Buckingham Branch RR (that has detoured Autotrain and operates the Cardinal to Clifton Forge from just north of Charlottesville) and then continue on the Cardinal Route. Could be all Superliner and free up Cardinal cars for other routes.
Connecting service from the Cardinal for DC/NY passengers at Richmond - yes longer for them but if there is truly a Chicago to Florida market this would be an inexpensive way to handle it. Chicago to NY/DC passengers would use the Capitol.
Jerome Nicholson Member # 3116
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What about extending the Capitol Limited from DC to MIA?
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Another way to get from Florida to Chicago without adding a lot of new route miles would be to have through cars off one of the Silver service trains at Richmond then over the Buckingham Branch RR (that has detoured Autotrain and operates the Cardinal to Clifton Forge from just north of Charlottesville) and then continue on the Cardinal Route. Could be all Superliner and free up Cardinal cars for other routes.
This would be an interesting route but extending the Capitol Limited on to Florida from DC would be faster.
One sidebar, there are plans to construct a new connecting track in Charlottesville so that the Cardinal could remain on the NS all the way into Charlottesville. The Buckingham Branch route could then be abandoned between Orange, VA and Gordonsville, VA as the 'Cardinal' is the only train of any sort which still uses this short segment of former C&O trackage.
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