I will use the Empire Builder as my example, but this same idea applies to all over night trains.
When we ride Amtrak, we stop at these little towns that seem to be in the middle of nowhere. No taxi, no shuttle bus, an old crumbling building for a train station, nothing appealing except an unexplored little town. I always wanted to visit one of those little towns, however not enough civilization is there. Therefore, I would incourage the state, the town, and my Amtrak to invest in tourist attractions. I would have a hotel at or walking distant from every train stop. I would have some type of tourist attraction that would attract visitors for at least 1 night stay at the hotel; horse back riding in the mountains at Essex, tour bus rides through Glacier Park at Glacier Park, Sking at Libby, A winter rodeo at Stanley...ok, i'm losing ideas here but you get the picture. Each community knows what their area offer best. At least better than someone down in Beaumont Texas would know. Then I would buy a Boeing 787. I would fly tourist in from Japan and Europe. Drop them off at the Seattle or Chicago train station. Let them town hop on the Builder. Amtrak makes money, community makes money, and tourist get more options.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Where are the community development dollars for these services going to come from?
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
I'm sure if someone thought there was a market for tourist attractions in those tiny towns that some entrepeneur would have created them by now. Not every town has what it takes to be a tourist destination. Usually there has to be something of interest there, such as unusual natural beauty, a significant historic site, or an interesting local culture before tourists will give it a look.
Anyway, its not Amtrak's responsibility to make a tourist attraction out of every stop. If a community wants to attract tourists, they should do it themselves. They might want to include Amtrak in their promotions, though.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
I see you got your applications in for Amtrak board.
I am not suggesting they build the next Las Vegas. Small inexpensive activities that would invite Amtrak riders to stay over night. This would attract riders and revenue for the towns. If I was riding the train with time to burn and money. I would get off at Essex if I knew a hotel/bed and breakfast was near the station and mountain horseback rides. Amtrak and the town scratching each others back.
If Amtrak wants to make a profit, it would be in it's best interest to make a tourist stop out of every stop. Amtrak would make more money if they owned the tourist activity.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
You get points for imagination, but let's take a dose of reality. Amtrak doesn't have a budget for tourism development in out of the way places. In order to suppoort your position, you'd need to determine the cost of establishing these facilities and compare it to the additional ticket revenue it would generate. If it doesn't attract enough riders to pay for it and then some, it isn't worth the expense.
Not every stop needs to have a tourist attraction to attract riders to a route. A few already established attractions along any route should be sufficient to attract tourists to the trains. And there are plenty. For example...
On the California Zephyr, existing tourist attractions can be found in the SF Bay Area, Sacramento, Colfax (gold country), Truckee (Lake Tahoe), Reno, Salt Lake City, Glenwood Springs, Winter Park and Denver. And that's just half the route. Must Amtrak spend money creating tourist attractions in Martinez, Davis, Roseville, Winnemucca, Elko, Helper, Green River and Granby in order to attract tourists to the route? Indeed, Amtrak can just as easily pick up tourists in those towns and drop them at established tourist destination, and still get good ridership.
Posted by SunsetLtd (Member # 3985) on :
This is a good idea! But what would you do with trains that ran late and run three-times a week? And trains that ran through these little towns at night? Take Maricopa on the Sunset Route as an example. It's the gateway to Phoenix but is noting more than a few homes. There are other things you can do in Maricopa they just don't mention them.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
We would never know if it was worth it because you shoot down everything I say. However Amtrak board thinks as you do so Amtrak will never be anything more than a 1 foot in the grave passenger service.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by SunsetLtd: This is a good idea! But what would you do with trains that ran late and run three-times a week? And trains that ran through these little towns at night? Take Maricopa on the Sunset Route as an example. It's the gateway to Phoenix but is noting more than a few homes. There are other things you can do in Maricopa they just don't mention them.
Lets take Lordsburg in our case. Would you get off the train at Lordsburg at night? I WOULDN'T..
But Lordburg has a lot to offer tourist. If Amtrak worked with the community to build a hotel near the stop or Bed & Breakfast or just a tourist van to meet riders. I would get off in a heartbeat. Then Amtrak promote the stop. I bet Lordsburg could generate more riders than Houston.
A lot of this could be paid for with federal money. Look what Lufkin got yet they don't have Amtrak service.
Lufkin Transit gets Multimodal Terminal by , January 24, 2004 11:08 AM
With construction set to begin this year on a multi-modal transit terminal downtown, Lufkin and the Brazos Transit District received good news Thursday with U.S. Rep. Jim Turner’s announcement that $1 million for the facility is included in the fiscal 2004 Omnibus Appropriations bill.
Lufkin receives grant to construct transit terminal By STACY FAISON, The Lufkin Daily News 1/23/04
Turner stated in a press release that the grant funds will be used for the design and development of the facility, to be located on the southwest corner of First Street and Burke Avenue. The multi-purpose terminal will serve as the central transfer point for the transit authority's fixed-route bus system and as a hub for taxi cabs and common carriers such as the Kerrville and Greyhound bus lines.
The facility also will have structured parking that will accommodate up to 600 vehicles, and also will provide around 200 additional downtown parking spaces. Long-range plans for the multi-phase project include the addition of retail and office space.
The U.S. House and Senate recently passed the conference committee report containing the funding, according to the release, and President Bush is expected to sign it within 10 days.
The Brazos Transit District plans to begin construction on the terminal in 2004 and the facility is expected to be completed by early 2005, Turner said.
"I am very pleased that this funding for the city of Lufkin made it into the final version of the appropriation bill," he stated in the release.
In honor of the family whose land ultimately made the project possible, the terminal will be named Jennings Station, and a "Jennings Automotive" sign and material from the former business will be featured as part of the terminal's eventual design. The architecture of the new building will reflect the style of the old Angelina County Courthouse, according to the release.
Funded primarily by Federal Transit Administration grants, the terminal will cost an estimated $6 million. The city of Lufkin was awarded a $350,000 grant for its part of the project from the Federal Highway Administration in May 2000. Turner secured a total of $742,522 in 2002 for Texas-Brazos Transit buses, the parking facility and the inter-modal bus terminal. An additional $1 million will be applied to the construction of the facility when the design is completed.
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
You mentioned Essex as an example, but I would suggest that Essex is already a great place to stop. I can't say enough good things about the Izaak Walton Inn. It is within easy driving distance of Glacier Park, and there isn't a more beautiful place than that. The hotel also has special events for railfans, and cross country skiing in the winter.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by RussM: You mentioned Essex as an example, but I would suggest that Essex is already a great place to stop. I can't say enough good things about the Izaak Walton Inn. It is within easy driving distance of Glacier Park, and there isn't a more beautiful place than that. The hotel also has special events for railfans, and cross country skiing in the winter.
Is there a car rental place walking distant from the tracks?
Posted by SunsetLtd (Member # 3985) on :
We'd also have to take out that UGLY little Yellow Box they call a station at Lordsburg.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: We would never know if it was worth it because you shoot down everything I say. However Amtrak board thinks as you do so Amtrak will never be anything more than a 1 foot in the grave passenger service.
If the Amtrak board thought as I do they would have had a 20 year growth plan decades ago, and they would have fought like tigers until Congress funded it.
Getting back to the original topic, I see nothing wrong with Amtrak working with communities they serve to promote the destination, should those towns desire such promotion.
But its not Amtrak's job to make a town appealing to tourists. That's the job of the local governing boards, councils, and agencies. They alone should determine what amenities their towns desire and require for economic prosperity.
If Amtrak can play a role in their plans, great. But Amtrak doesn't have the funds to get into small town tourism development. Some other federal agency might, however, and its not unusual for some Congressman to "bring home the bacon" for that sort of thing, as in your cited article. It just shouldn't come out of Amtrak's budget in any way shape or form, IMHO.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote: Lufkin Transit gets Multimodal Terminal by , January 24, 2004 11:08 AM
With construction set to begin this year on a multi-modal transit terminal downtown, Lufkin and the Brazos Transit District received good news Thursday with U.S. Rep. Jim Turner’s announcement that $1 million for the facility is included in the fiscal 2004 Omnibus Appropriations bill.
Lufkin receives grant to construct transit terminal By STACY FAISON, The Lufkin Daily News 1/23/04
Turner stated in a press release that the grant funds will be used for the design and development of the facility, to be located on the southwest corner of First Street and Burke Avenue. The multi-purpose terminal will serve as the central transfer point for the transit authority's fixed-route bus system and as a hub for taxi cabs and common carriers such as the Kerrville and Greyhound bus lines.
The facility also will have structured parking that will accommodate up to 600 vehicles, and also will provide around 200 additional downtown parking spaces. Long-range plans for the multi-phase project include the addition of retail and office space.
The Brazos Transit District plans to begin construction on the terminal in 2004 and the facility is expected to be completed by early 2005, Turner said. [/QB]
You have got to be kidding me. I have been to Lufkin, Texas. I did not even know they HAD a local fixed route bus system or any other kind of bus system. This news item is over two years old. Did it actually happen? I drove through the middle of Lufkin about two moths ago, and something like this should shine like a jewel in a mud pie, and I did not notice it.
George
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
Re: gp35 - Essex, Mt.
gp35 - I understand that the Izaak Walton Inn in Essex can provide a rental car on request for guests who are arriving and departing by train. This Inn recently changed hands, but the new owners say they plan to keep everything the same.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by SunsetLtd: We'd also have to take out that UGLY little Yellow Box they call a station at Lordsburg.
Nooooo. That could be a tourist attraction. "Come see the yellow box. Try to figure out who idea this was."
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy:
quote:Originally posted by gp35: We would never know if it was worth it because you shoot down everything I say. However Amtrak board thinks as you do so Amtrak will never be anything more than a 1 foot in the grave passenger service.
If the Amtrak board thought as I do they would have had a 20 year growth plan decades ago, and they would have fought like tigers until Congress funded it.
Getting back to the original topic, I see nothing wrong with Amtrak working with communities they serve to promote the destination, should those towns desire such promotion.
But its not Amtrak's job to make a town appealing to tourists. That's the job of the local governing boards, councils, and agencies. They alone should determine what amenities their towns desire and require for economic prosperity.
If Amtrak can play a role in their plans, great. But Amtrak doesn't have the funds to get into small town tourism development. Some other federal agency might, however, and its not unusual for some Congressman to "bring home the bacon" for that sort of thing, as in your cited article. It just shouldn't come out of Amtrak's budget in any way shape or form, IMHO.
Amtrak owns a few hotels, therefore it is their job. Especially if they want to survive. But enough about my idea, lets hear your growth plan.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris:
quote: Lufkin Transit gets Multimodal Terminal by , January 24, 2004 11:08 AM
With construction set to begin this year on a multi-modal transit terminal downtown, Lufkin and the Brazos Transit District received good news Thursday with U.S. Rep. Jim Turner’s announcement that $1 million for the facility is included in the fiscal 2004 Omnibus Appropriations bill.
Lufkin receives grant to construct transit terminal By STACY FAISON, The Lufkin Daily News 1/23/04
Turner stated in a press release that the grant funds will be used for the design and development of the facility, to be located on the southwest corner of First Street and Burke Avenue. The multi-purpose terminal will serve as the central transfer point for the transit authority's fixed-route bus system and as a hub for taxi cabs and common carriers such as the Kerrville and Greyhound bus lines.
The facility also will have structured parking that will accommodate up to 600 vehicles, and also will provide around 200 additional downtown parking spaces. Long-range plans for the multi-phase project include the addition of retail and office space.
The Brazos Transit District plans to begin construction on the terminal in 2004 and the facility is expected to be completed by early 2005, Turner said.
You have got to be kidding me. I have been to Lufkin, Texas. I did not even know they HAD a local fixed route bus system or any other kind of bus system. This news item is over two years old. Did it actually happen? I drove through the middle of Lufkin about two moths ago, and something like this should shine like a jewel in a mud pie, and I did not notice it.
George [/QB]
Maybe it was down a dirt road. Seriously, this stuff happens all the time. The feds hand out billions in grant money to cities for tourism. Amtrak along side with these communities could get a lot of money to build a tourist network around rail travel.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: Amtrak owns a few hotels, therefore it is their job. Especially if they want to survive. But enough about my idea, lets hear your growth plan.
I posted an outline for a plan, or more accurately a process for devising a long term plan, several months ago under this thread last November.
NARP has a more detailed Revitalization Plan which I also think is a good place to start. Note: NARP's website has been running rather slow in recent days. If it doesn't work, try again later.
What hotels does Amtrak own? I can find no reference to any such.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
When we ride Amtrak, we stop at these little towns that seem to be in the middle of nowhere. No taxi, no shuttle bus, an old crumbling building for a train station, nothing appealing except an unexplored little town. I always wanted to visit one of those little towns, however not enough civilization is there. ------------------------------------------------
Sounds like the scene in the old Spencer Tracy Movie "Bad Day at Black Rock" set in 1945. The town was described as "not even a whistle stop." At the end of the film the train conductor comments on the fact they hadn't stopped here in 20 years (Tracy corrects him that it had to stop here last week to drop him off) Odd still is that there was a working station master on duty.
It does sound like a writers vacation, rumor has it there's a Days Inn out by the inter-state. Howd'y Sheriff who'dat stranger that got off the noon train?
Sorry
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy:
quote:Originally posted by gp35: Amtrak owns a few hotels, therefore it is their job. Especially if they want to survive. But enough about my idea, lets hear your growth plan.
I posted an outline for a plan, or more accurately a process for devising a long term plan, several months ago under this thread last November.
NARP has a more detailed Revitalization Plan which I also think is a good place to start. Note: NARP's website has been running rather slow in recent days. If it doesn't work, try again later.
What hotels does Amtrak own? I can find no reference to any such.
I want to say Baltimore and Penn station. I need to look it up too. Amtrak needs to expand beyond passenger trains. Amtrak Inn, Amtrak bus line, Amtrak Airline, Amtrak-FedEx ground, Amtrak USPO Mail, Amtrak reefer freight.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Mr Toy I read your plan. Your plan does not go far enough. It may make Amtrak leaner and more efficient, but it still holds Amtrak to the mercy of congress. My plan goal would allow Amtrak to pay for itself.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
My plan doesn't have to hold Amtrak to the mercy of Congress. It all depends on how the new organization is set up and funded.
I should add that all interested parties should be involved in the planning process, including Amtrak, the freight railroads, passenger advocacy organizations, state transportation departments, etc. That way nobody is left out and nobody has any conditions imposed upon them without their consent (as the failed Bush plan did).
Posted by wigwagfan (Member # 664) on :
quote:Originally posted by gp35: I always wanted to visit one of those little towns, however not enough civilization is there. Therefore, I would incourage the state, the town, and my Amtrak to invest in tourist attractions.
Think about it:
If you aren't willing to go to some of these towns - like Shelby, Montana; Wishram, Washington; Chemult, Oregon - and figure out why there isn't anything there - why should anyone spend tax dollars to do it?
Disclaimer: I've been to two out of three of these communities; and passed through another onboard an Amtrak train.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Interesting you mention Chemult. Our friend CoastStarlight99, A.K.A. Anton, went there on vacation a couple years ago and stayed at a rustic little hotel not too far from the tracks. He posted a travelogue somewhere, but I couldn't find it. I did find his pre-trip inquiries and plans here on the forum, though. There isn't much in Chemult, but somebody made it fun anyway.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by wigwagfan:
quote:Originally posted by gp35: I always wanted to visit one of those little towns, however not enough civilization is there. Therefore, I would incourage the state, the town, and my Amtrak to invest in tourist attractions.
Think about it:
If you aren't willing to go to some of these towns - like Shelby, Montana; Wishram, Washington; Chemult, Oregon - and figure out why there isn't anything there - why should anyone spend tax dollars to do it?
Disclaimer: I've been to two out of three of these communities; and passed through another onboard an Amtrak train.
You have to spend money to make money.
Posted by Greg (Member # 66) on :
Amtrak has done a number of low cost promotions from time to time of tourist activities along its routes. Some examples:
- Route guides - City-specific guides (Chicago, for example) - Seasonal stops for tourist activities (Hermann, MO for Oktoberfest, now a regular stop) - On-train guides (Southwest Chief across portions of New Mexico)
These could be especially helpful in locations where rail is the best non-auto alternative (Essex, MT and Alpine, TX are but a couple of several dozen such locations).
This is not unlike what many other transportation companies do, highlight but not fund attractions for the cities they serve. This seems to be the appropriate role for Amtrak and one unlikely to attract much Congressional scrutiny, but add passengers and revenue.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Alaska Railroad and cruise ship industry...need I say more.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
But what would you do with trains that ran late and run three-times a week? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
And trains that ran through these little towns at night? Take Maricopa on the Sunset Route as an example. It's the gateway to Phoenix but is noting more than a few homes. There are other things you can do in Maricopa they just don't mention them.