As of right now Amtrak trains 1-8 and trains 58-59 will get there 180 day notices after July 1st 2006
Trains 19-20 will get cut back and run from New York to Atlanta
This will be the 1st round of cuts there will be more.
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Two stories come to mind here:
Chicken Little and The Boy Who Cried Wolf.
Posted by SunsetLtd (Member # 3985) on :
I doubt the trains are going anywhere, espically with high gas prices and increased ridership. In fact with ridership up they need to add more cars to meet deamand. The Sunset for example DEFINATLY needs to add another Coach. I think the same thing is happening on the rest of the long haul trains. Most are adding more cars to their already packed summer consists.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
As I noted over at your parallel thread at Trainorders, Please Mr Marderosian, would you cite a specific recognized news source or withdraw the posting?
I can assure you that I will not permit such a posting unsubstantiated to stand over at Railroad.net.
Look NARP and other State groups are not getting the right information this is done for a reason to throw everyone off.
I have the the inside information and i am watched on what i post on the Internet.
My 2 groups put a stop to this issue about 4 months ago when it 1st came up and all of you said nothing was happening open your eyes this is being done behind closed doors away from NARP and other groups i just happen to have the respect from people to get this information and issue you it to the public but i will not give out there names or where they work in the company.
This is for real this is not a rumor you can take this information and use it to try to save these trains or wait till it is to late and we can lose these trains plus more.
Posted by rY. (Member # 3528) on :
Interesting article on Dunsmuir's Railroad Days if you change that google news search to "discontinue"!
Now, as to the train-offs... if this is behind closed doors, do you have any advice as to how to put a stop to it? Congressional elections are this November, so I can't imagine anyone wanting to get tagged with a "took away *our* trains" label, at least not while gas prices are this high...
Posted by BNSF 1088 (Member # 2400) on :
This was done in the FY 2006 budget by congress to reduce service costs it was open to all things from trains to sleepers to diners etc it just so happens that the Bush Admin has control over Amtrak at this time.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by rY.: if you change that google news search to "discontinue"!
Noted, Mr. RY; that is why I posted the exact query I made at Google, lest one more handy than I with such matters could perfect the search.
Posted by rY. (Member # 3528) on :
You haven't answered my question, BNSF. If you are going to raise the alarm, at least give some hints as to what you want your audience to do with the information...
Posted by BNSF 1088 (Member # 2400) on :
Try to get in touch with congress and tell them to keep all Amtrak trains running. but like i have said before there the ones that made this issue happen.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by BNSF 1088: This was done in the FY 2006 budget by congress to reduce service costs it was open to all things from trains to sleepers to diners etc it just so happens that the Bush Admin has control over Amtrak at this time.
If this is in the 2006 budget, it should be a matter of public record.
What I know about the 2006 budget to save costs relates to the diner conversions, which has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Certain trains will be designated as "basic" service trains, and will have their diners and lounges consolidated into one car, either a redesigned Superliner I lounge or Superliner I diner. Perhaps that is what will actually happen after July 1, and the rumor mill distorted it into something else.
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Take a little rumor -- add to it a generous dash of paranoia -- post it on multiple forums on the Internet over and over -- repeat the process often enough -- and sooner or later you will perhaps convince a few people. Maybe people will even forget that no concrete evidence has ever been cited. (This after repeated requests to provide reliable sources.)Nebulous "inside information" is the only source given -- a little too flimsy a source for me to take serious.
Posted by The Chief (Member # 2172) on :
Let's agree that Amtrak funding never has been an easy deal. With that in mind, I'll use this as an opportunity to contact my two Senators (both Amtrak supporters from Texas) and my congressman.
And I'll share w/them that I heard/read Amtrak is planning some serious announcements 3 July. Congress folks generally don't like end-arounds or trick plays (especially those from Texas).
Every year I write / email my Congress squad, so this is as good a time as any.
Seems that BNSF 1088 has some stones to even broach this subject. And this is the Internet. So maybe some of y'all may want to take a bit of time to contact your Congress people (2+1) and let them know about your support of Amtrak and what you're hearing on your passenger rail websites and forums. Would that hurt?
Posted by BNSF 1088 (Member # 2400) on :
Thanks BNSF for the update. I must tell everyone now that this is all true and if you don't believe it, well that's your choice. I have spoken with my former bosses in both JAX and NOL whom I have absolute trust in their honesty regarding the subject of the future of services in and out of NOL, and yes, both 1/2 and 58/59 will be abolished and will be completely off the Amtrak roster no later than September 30, period! I can't speak for the other routes BNSF1088 reports personally, but I do believe they are dead too. The actual public announcement by Amtrak will begin with the formal 180 notices on Monday, June 3. The NOL crew base, both OBS and T&E were "unofficially" notified of this service cut by regional and local managers now unable to cover up this long awaited change in the way Amtrak will do business nationally. According to my former supervisors, they were point blanked asked by other OBS employees during the 58 safety briefing the other day, if the date of Southern Division Superintendent Sid Birket's resignation was just a coincidence or specific timing to get off the "Titanic" before it hit the iceburg. At that point, they openly confessed to everyone that the Hughes Adminstration had given them direct orders that any leak of the shutdown to labor employees from them would result in an immediate dismissal from Amtrak employment. In addition, again according to my former supervisors via my phone converstation, the station clerk at NOL, whom I believe 100% since I helped her and her family in Natchitoches when she got evacuated from NOL during Katrina, received a FedEX mail package that strickly states that it may only be opened by the manager of stations no earlier than Monday, July 3 its contents be distributed to all depots within her division. Folks, its here and now, and the people who remain with Amtrak now have the full picture of the pending doom that's about to occur with their jobs, and more importantly, the national passenger rail system. They can no longer deny it to themselves or others that the end is near.
Folks, this has been coming for a long time now. BNSF, Amtrak OBS Employee and myself have been warning of such radical system cuts for almost a couple of years now. I'm not going to say I told you so, because that's not an appropriate response by a member of a civil forum such as this and more importantly is it obsolutely true that those who choose not to believe statements made by others on this forum have every right to question the integrity and validity of such information made by people on any on-line forum. What I will say is that the formal announcement to the general public and the entire Amtrak employee network and the general public is scheduled for Monday, July 3 from David Hughes' office. That in a nutshell is exactly what three OBS managers told me on the phone Friday after calling to check up on old friends and to quite frankly find out if any news of the long awaited shutdown of the long distance network was truly coming pass as feared. I no longer work for Amtrak, I have personal agenda. I'm just giving you the facts as presented from three Amtrak managers to one former employee and personal friend.
Trainboy325 has said all that can be said of this very sad and disappointing subject!!!
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
BNSF, your word is on the line. Nothing you say makes sense. If anything, train 1 and 2 will end up a daily route. This is an election year. It would be suicide to kill Amtrak LD without major congressional outrage from states involved and the public from those states. If any of this has any truth, and I doubt it, we all know what happened to the Texas Eagle after it was cut from the system. It went to daily service. High gas prices, pro-Amtrak Senators in involved states, election year, advocate groups, NOL needing trains, Houston and Beaumont in early stages of building Intermodal transit centers based around Amtrak...NO WAY...
Posted by SunsetLtd (Member # 3985) on :
If they kill LD routes Amtrak would be gone completly. Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. They would get rid of all that serivce everyone would hate them, no one would ride, and poof Amtrak is gone all together. This is a fatal decision Amtrak is making. But i'm waiting for what the pro Amtrak people in congress will say!
Also the beautiful station here in ELP would close and become run down and eventually become as bad as the one in Sanderson! That would be watching a car crash in slow motion.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
We'll know in a week if you're right. But Trainorders has no active topics on this, at least not within the last three days. I'm not a member, so I can't see beyond posts of the 23rd.
But this came into my mailbox from RailPAC today. It was part of a report on a recent meeting of the Coast Rail Committee, whose primary function is the establishment of Coast Daylight service between LA and SF. It says:
quote:"40% of the delays to the Starlight are caused by "slow orders" in No. Cal and So Ore. Amtrak is now pursuing permanent track gang at their own expense to remedy this problem."
Doesn't sound like something a company would do if it is planning to shut down the train.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Toy, trainorders had a discussion thread with at least 30 postings on this topic, but evidently their moderator chose to remove it.
A good call on his part; be assured should the issue arise, I will make same with respect to railroad.net.
Posted by rtabern (Member # 4306) on :
Sorry folks, I am not buying this at all!
Why am I not buying this? Well, think about it... and read carefully... and add in your knowledge about the western trains.
(original post): "As of right now Amtrak trains 1-8 and trains 58-59 will get there 180 day notices after July 1st 2006. Trains 19-20 will get cut back and run from New York to Atlanta This will be the 1st round of cuts there will be more."
Ok... done thinking about it?
I don't think this is legitimate for the fact the original poster mentions NOTHING about "The Texas Eagle" (21/22). I am pretty sure that Amtrak would end up putting up notices on that train WAY before "The Empire Builder" (7/8) or even the "The California Zephyr (5/6) for that matter.
So if the original poster really had inside information... they would have also mentioned 21/22 as being cut too. But it seems they forgot about the Texas Eagle for whatever reason.
I guess we will see though.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
Ok guys, I figured it out. Think about it. Is President Bush sitting around thinking of ways to kill Amtrak? Will killing Amtrak LD benefit the nation? NO Will killing Amtrak LD put a dent in the deficit? NO Will killing Amtrak LD give an issue to the non-issue Democrats? YES
There is nothing to gain and everything to lose for Bush. So what is the truth. Think about what happened last year. The 0 budget for Amtrak without reform. Amtrak did some reforms. But they didnt get the most important change the Bush administration AND Amtrak wanted. State funding of Amtrak. If they threaten to cut the routes, there will be public outrage and congressionl outrage. Then the Bush administration can get 80/20 feds/state funding. This is nothing more than Bush playing chicken. I hope Bush wins because getting states involved in the funding would be great for Amtrak.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Okay, I'm not inclined to believe this rumor either. Why? Well, because the two previous rounds of cutbacks (the Mercer cuts of 1995 and the 1981 wholesale massacre) were widely publicized and discussed in advance. Why should the White House even risk political capital that is in pretty short supply right now? Bush has already alienated the Republican Congress. A "secret" plan to do away with half the LD trains would *really* rile them up, and for what?
Recall also the the current Congressional budget for Amtrak does contain enough money to keep the present network running.
This all doesn't add up.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
Whether you believe it or not, there are a couple of comments which are strange:
"As of right now Amtrak trains 1-8 and trains 58-59 will get there [sic] 180 day notices after July 1st 2006"
"formal 180 notices on Monday, June 3"
"completely off the Amtrak roster no later than September 30"
By my reckoning, that's only 120 days (assuming the June date is correct).
And presumably the 5:37pm posting is NOT by BNSF 1088 as he refers to himself in the 3rd person - and has suddenly made a vast improvement in his spelling and grammar.
Geoff M.
[All references to "BNSF 1088" postings]
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
If congress chooses to go along with this, the "180 days" could just as easily become 180 minutes. The same group that made the law can change it.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: If congress chooses to go along with this, the "180 days" could just as easily become 180 minutes. The same group that made the law can change it.
Go along with nothing. We have a multi-trillion dollar economy. Saving the government less than $500 million is not worth the President giving Democrats an issue for 06. Look at the new train serves in states that support Amtrak funnding. This is an attempt to get other states off their butts.
Posted by I Missed the Ma&Pa (Member # 4300) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geoff M: "formal 180 notices on Monday, June 3"
"completely off the Amtrak roster no later than September 30"
By my reckoning, that's only 120 days (assuming the June date is correct).[All references to "BNSF 1088" postings]
Actually, it's hardly 90, 89 depending on how you count the date of announcement into it. It can't be 180 day notices effective JUNE 3rd, as otherwise we would know about them already. It would thus have to be JULY 3rd.
Doesn't add up one bit to me, but at least here, BNSF has given specifics regarding dates and specific trains, so we shall certainly see just what is what in a week.
Even if this was some sort of posturing ploy, if Elected Officials condoned this sort of thing in an election year, they would be really igniting a political powderkeg.
But, in one week, we shall see. Our poster has put his rep on the line, and in a week, we will either be in awe of his insight, or greatly annoyed by a false alarm. Will we hear fireworks on July the 3rd, or crickets chirping?
Posted by rtabern (Member # 4306) on :
I would put my money on CRICKETS CHIRPING.
Like I said earlier today, if they are REALLY going to cut "The City of New Orleans" (58/59) -- the poster with the "so called" inside information -- would know they would also likely cut "The Texas Eagle" (21/22) -- since, they really are the same train (they just switch crews when they reach Chicago).
But he fails to address this. If he also thinks 1/2 is going to be cut, wouldn't he think 21/22 would be gone too since a through car 3 days a week goes on from 21/22 to 1/2 in San Antonio?
I can't believe they would cut out the Empire Builder and California Zephyr and leave "The Texas Eagle" alone. That's why this DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
I am waiting to hear back from Mr. BNSF about this! Why didn't you mention 21/22 being cut? Do you have "inside information" it won't get a notice -- or did you just forget to add it to your list to scare people since it's not as popular of a route? Hmmmph?!?
Posted by BNSF 1088 (Member # 2400) on :
Here goes
When i post anything on the Internet or make fliers i do it as the Director of Save Our Trains Michigan and Save Our Trains Mississippi.
Which means why would i put false information or rumors out on the Internet and on fliers that would hurt the 2 groups i am in charge of plus i am watched what i put on the Internet and on fliers.
The 2 groups i am in charge of are very well respected by Amtrak and i would never put out any information that would hurt Amtrak or it's employees.
If you people want to wait for the news to pick up on it by then it will be to late and the news media isn't always right sometimes they write what they want and not what was said.
The way my 2 groups have gotten to be where they are today is from a former Amtrak President who is no longer with the company.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by rtabern: I can't believe they would cut out the Empire Builder and California Zephyr and leave "The Texas Eagle" alone. That's why this DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson
I consider Matt a very reliable source and tend to give credibility to what he says. The only thing that might invalidate his information is if someone is playing him either for purposes of their own or deliberately attempting to destroy his credibility. Think Senator McCarthy. I really feel that a lot of his supposede wackiness was because he was fed false information by people he thought trustworth that were not and then acted upon it as if they were.
Posted by rtabern (Member # 4306) on :
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson
That is a reason perhaps, but Mr. BNSF 1088, has never said they are going to keep 21/22.
And why would they cut 1/2 and leave 21/22? Afterall, 1/2 goes through more of Texas than 21/22.
I guess we'll see who's right in 6 days.
Posted by BNSF 1088 (Member # 2400) on :
Like i have said before this all can change since the Study is not over until June 30th 2006 none of this information was never to be made public so it could come down to what happened 4 months ago which is it will be stalled because of to much pressure being put on the issue.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by BNSF 1088: Like i have said before this all can change since the Study is not over until June 30th 2006 none of this information was never to be made public so it could come down to what happened 4 months ago which is it will be stalled because of to much pressure being put on the issue.
Once again, Mr. Marderosian, all the greater reason to have "sat" on your alleged information until such was 'broken' by a major news organization.
At such time the story was broken, you and your save the trains organizations could have still gained credit by initiating discussion regarding how to sensibly contact elected representatives regarding what surely you believe to be the folly of such a plan.
That you choose to 'blow" for the present an unfounded story only discredits yourself as an individual as well as the organizations you represent association with.
That is why I will not permit any postings of this material over at railroad.net until confirmed by a major newssource; that is why I brought your postings to the attention of the trainorders webmaster and he chose to remove them.
But this site is unmoderated so I guess you have free rein here.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by I Missed the Ma&Pa:
quote:Originally posted by Geoff M: "formal 180 notices on Monday, June 3"
"completely off the Amtrak roster no later than September 30"
By my reckoning, that's only 120 days (assuming the June date is correct).[All references to "BNSF 1088" postings]
Actually, it's hardly 90, 89 depending on how you count the date of announcement into it. It can't be 180 day notices effective JUNE 3rd, as otherwise we would know about them already. It would thus have to be JULY 3rd.
Thanks for clarifying that. Let's see if Matt can manage to fit 180 regular days into 90 elapsed days in order to meet his target of 30th September. Or, of course, explain his reasoning behind such sums, which he has yet to do.
My other query, which may have perhaps been a little too implicit, is also not answered. Who wrote the 5:37PM posting? I notice that this is also repeated several times on Matt's website forum (note: the link doesn't work as it stands - add .com at the end to make it work) - a rather lonely forum seeing as Matt has made 97% of the postings with his moderator making up the last 3%.
Sorry Matt, but there is a lack of credibility to all of this. Perhaps you are right - but the way you are presenting it is just mighty strange and unconvincing.
Geoff M.
Posted by I Missed the Ma&Pa (Member # 4300) on :
Geoff, the mystery posting came from another board on which BNSF posted the same topic verbatim.
Quite apparently, it was cut and pasted over to this thread. You'll notice a few other posts in this other thread that are word for word identical to those in this thread.
Hope this solves the mystery...
Posted by PaulB (Member # 4258) on :
quote:Originally posted by BNSF 1088: Like i have said before this all can change since the Study is not over until June 30th 2006 none of this information was never to be made public so it could come down to what happened 4 months ago which is it will be stalled because of to much pressure being put on the issue.
When did you say that "before"? Give me specific dates, not this vauge rambling. Are you trying to create an excuse for yourself if [when] nothing happens on July 3rd, so you don't look like a total ***? What happened 4 months ago? Stop this mindless rambling like the typical conspiracy theorist on the street and give us some specifics!
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by BNSF 1088: Like i have said before this all can change since the Study is not over until June 30th 2006 none of this information was never to be made public so it could come down to what happened 4 months ago which is it will be stalled because of to much pressure being put on the issue.
This allegedly secret study is nothing secret. Amtrak was openly planning a system wide route evaluation for this summer to see how they are performing. Those trains which are not performing well will be monitored and service changes (scheduling, routing, etc) may be made, but they have made it clear that shutting down trains would be the last resort, not the first. David L aney has stated that new routes were another possible outcome. I was looking for the specific report on the Amtrak website, but in the limited time I have at the moment, I could not locate it. Perhaps someone else has the link.
Posted by Amtrak207 (Member # 1307) on :
If you'll read the "Long Distance Network" section of Amtrak's FY06 Strategic Plan, you may notice that route terminations due to this evaluation are not scheduled until fiscal year 2008. I interpret this as better accountability per train (making sure one does not unnecessarily lose more than another) and a leveraging tool to convince states to pick up the tab. That's a centerpiece in the President's "reform" agenda and has been for years. Mr. Laney appears to have done the right thing (from an engineering perspective). He has outlined a fair process to evaluate the LD trains and put forth a clear and concise timetable for execution. The political aspect is pretty nice too. FY 08 is an election year, a major one at that. Also, it gives time for the existing national network trains to continue to improve (remember what's been happening with ridership and fuel costs). Should implementation be delayed, well gee, that runs a 50/50 chance of being under more rail-friendly administration leadership. While the book is still very much open on Laney, he appears to want to do the right thing (preserve the national network and improve infrastructure, not caring about what color the seats are) and wants to do it the right way. FY 06 terminations would only be required if Congress appoints less than $1.2 bil for next year. I'll have more on this very topic and how it was brought up to me by a crew member on my recent trip upon completion of the travelogue.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by I Missed the Ma&Pa: Geoff, the mystery posting came from another board on which BNSF posted the same topic verbatim.
Thanks - that's interesting reading. So this act that was introduced in 2005 never got passed? I see people on that other forum are somewhat skeptical too.
The only positive in Matt's favour is George Harris. But even then, that's a qualified positive rather than outright.
Geoff M.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Hey Matt - I too am a bit skeptical of your predictions, but I have no real basis to doubt what you are saying; however, I do agree that if the 180-day notices were to really be in the works, we would have heard "something" on TV, albeit maybe just rumors. It is hard to keep "secret" negotiations really "secret." If these 180-day notices do come to pass (and we'll find out next week), would they typically be posted onboard the trains or in stations? We will be enroute on our vacation trip by then.
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
I just hope the evaluation is fair to the Sunset. Tri-weekly is difficult way to plan a trip. The Sunset is at a huge disadvantage.
Posted by CHATTER (Member # 1185) on :
quote:When did you say that "before"? Give me specific dates, not this vauge rambling. Are you trying to create an excuse for yourself if [when] nothing happens on July 3rd, so you don't look like a total ***? What happened 4 months ago? Stop this mindless rambling like the typical conspiracy theorist on the street and give us some specifics!
Sadly, this is my opinion, as well, even if not in quite the same words.
The prognosticator in question has, in these waning days before the Day of Reckoning (relatively speaking), begun to realize that he may indeed appear extremely foolish next week and, consequently, has begun to seek a path out of the corner into which he has painted himself on this and the other forum. (The other alternatives were far more unpleasant: Recant and apologize profusely, return with a new screen name, or simply disappear altgogether.) The fact that he is publicly associated with a well-known state pro-rail activist group reflects badly, to a degree, on all concerned.
Moreover, like him, I shall cut and paste these remarks, verbatim, on both forums. Posted by I Missed the Ma&Pa (Member # 4300) on :
quote:Originally posted by rtabern: I would put my money on CRICKETS CHIRPING.
Hope you won enough money to take a trip!
Posted by Pojon2 (Member # 4048) on :
Matt has been taken advantage of! All my sources do not agree with him (BNSF).
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
For the benefit of those not living in the US, and thus don't get domestic US news, can someone confirm the news (or lack thereof)?
Or should I take the picture of the cricket as evidence? Did Matt single-handedly and heroically save the day?
Geoff M.
Posted by I Missed the Ma&Pa (Member # 4300) on :
Geoff,
There is a complete lack of any such reports of trainoffs. Not a peep.
Given the depth and specificity of his posts - the date, trains affected, and the "gag orders" issued, and how it rowled a lot of people up on multiple rail boards, I really do think that an explanation is in order.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
I have not been on the boards in several months-can somebody explain what is going on? So the rumor that trains 1-8 58-59 are going to be cut is false?
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Appears to be nothing more than hogwash. The main perpetrator of this hoax has lost what minimal credibility he had. It is also interesting to note that the two "Save our Trains" groups he touts and names himself as Director of one -- appear to have no more than a handful of members. While I admit I did only a cursory Google search -- I find nothing that would give either he or the two groups any credible standing.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Yes, Virginia, there IS a Moderator.
Now how about completing the job and locking this one as well.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
The other thread was a test to see if there really is a moderator.
And Gilbert, I could probably get this one locked, too. Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
Isnt it interesting we havent heard from BNSF1088 since July 1st?
Posted by Boyce (Member # 2719) on :
BNSF1088 was branded on other RR forums but still appears to be active, nonetheless.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
As I noted earlier, I can confirm that on July 15 (note new date, revised from July 3) an alien spaceship will beam all Amtrak equipment off-world (my source thinks Mars will be the destination). At the same time, Amtrak HQ will be sent back in time to 1948, and Amtrak management will be replaced by the passenger department of the Pennsylvania Railroad.
I've worked in the railroad industry for 29 years, so all of this must be true.
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