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Does anyone know (really know!) when Amtrak will resume running the Sunset Limited east from New Orleans to Orlando, Florida? I want to buy the Florida Rail Pass (as a Florida resident) and I want to use the pass to go from Jacksonville, FL to Pensacola--only possible when the Sunset runs again eastward from New Orleans to Orlando.
MDRR Member # 2992
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The Question is not when but if it will ever start running again.
SunsetLtd Member # 3985
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The tracks are there the stations are there, just no train serving them. Hopefully they will reinstate it soon.
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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When I ask Amtrak sales personnel, telephone clerks and the public relations people in Washington, DC--no one knows!
gp35 Member # 3971
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If Amtrak gets either the $1.5 billion or the $1.8 billion. I would expect the service back.
CoastStarlight99 Member # 2734
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My recent NARP newsletter suggests the service will be restored before 2007, but nothing is guaranteed.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Icicles freeze in Hades before such happens.
All parties concerned, namely Amtrak and CSX, "got it off"; it will not be restored at the initiative of either.
Good luck on that one, advocacy groups.
Benson Member # 4421
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Starlight could you post the Narp newsletter so we can see what they said?
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by Benson: Starlight could you post the Narp newsletter so we can see what they said?
I don't know if you can access the print newsletter online but NARP does a great Hotline updated each Friday at www.narprail.org.
George Harris Member # 2077
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It is real apparent that Amtrak is currently not interested in restoring it. Here are a few quotes from a letter to Mr. Jackson McQuigg, Presidennt of the Florida Coalition of Rail Passengers, dated May 16, 2006 and signed by David M. Laney. It can be found at www.trainweb.org/fcrp/articles.htm
It makes it quite clear the problem is not CSX. In fact the first sentence is, "CSX Transportation worked very hard through the winter to restore the railroad east of New Orleans and has completed improvements to the signal system on the west end of the route." The letter then goes on to say, "However, we are not prepared to operate a train over this route in the near-term." It talks about unrepaired damages to stations and other facilities, including that the Mobile station will be razed "this spring", and that crews have been dispersed so new crews would have to be trained. It also mentions that there is a bill to "take pieces of this railroad out of service" without mentioning that the concept is a relocation, not an outright abandonment, nor that this will likely be years in the future. It closes with the sentence, "We are still looking at our options for a more relevant, future service."
In my humble opinion, the whole thing is hogwash with only one real fact, we are not planning to start this train back up, not now, not anytime soon, probably not ever. Does anyone on here know whether or not the Mobile station is still there or has been torn down? Spring is now behind us.
George
gp35 Member # 3971
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That date was before the rail relocation bill died. I think the only reason Sunset is not east of NOL or daily is their lack of equiment.
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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Judging by the real lack of Superliner equipment (because of the Auto-Train accident in northern Florida and other wrecks in the last few years) and the number of cars to be repaired sitting in various yards in Hialeah, FL, Pennsylvania, California and other places that may be the actual reason for not resuming service east of New Orleans. I only wish Amtrak would start it up again--I need to give my wife a good excuse to buy 2 Florida Rail passes as a way to get to the western Florida panhandle.
CoastStarlight99 Member # 2734
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quote:Originally posted by Benson: Starlight could you post the Narp newsletter so we can see what they said?
posted
I've run searches on Google, Yahoo, and the local Mobile newspaper archives. I can find no reference that the Mobile Amtrak station has been, or will be, razed.
Don't you think NARP would have picked up on this and reported it if it were so?
Anyone else know anything more about this?
updated: 8/4/06 - The razing of the Mobile station has been reported in the September 2006 issue of Trains Magazine.
jp1822 Member # 2596
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Regarding lack of equipment I can believe it only becuase the Coast Starlight is running so late it is requiring 5 trainsets, instead of 4. This is unacceptable, but unfortunately necessary in current times.
Coast Starlight only needs 4 trainsets if it operates per schedule. To allow for an on-time departure out of LAX for train #14, a spare trainset has been made up to cover for its departure. The fifth trainset was likely made up from the Sunset's equipment that was freed up as a result of the truncation east of NOL.
Also, when equipment was tight, the eastbound and westbound Southwest Chief/Capitol Limited were doing a same day turn in Chiacgo. Currently on the westbounds do a same day turn. Amtrak could go back to this if it needed to (east and west). It was on the books for a while!
Lately, operations are for the eastbound Southwest Chief equipment to layover one night before being used as the eastbound Capitol Limited. Course I am sure exceptions still apply!
delvyrails Member # 4205
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Just in case the CSX route between NOL and JAX is not available for the Sunset, we might consider GADOT's survey of the Atlanta-Jesup NS line as part of Georgia's future rail passenger service network.
A NOL-BHM-ATL-JSP-JAX route would be a longer NOL-JAX route; but possibly it would (a) be a more reliable one and (b) generate more traffic.
Comments from the area?
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by delvyrails: Just in case the CSX route between NOL and JAX is not available for the Sunset, we might consider GADOT's survey of the Atlanta-Jesup NS line as part of Georgia's future rail passenger service network.
A NOL-BHM-ATL-JSP-JAX route would be a longer NOL-JAX route; but possibly it would (a) be a more reliable one and (b) generate more traffic.
Comments from the area?
If anything passenger returns between JAX and ATL I would prefer that this route continue on to Chicago by whatever routing possible. Such a train could perhaps connect to/from the Crescent for NOL.
I'm not sure that anyone looking to travel JAX-NOL on a train would be willing to do so via Atlanta and Birmingham though.
sojourner Member # 3134
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I think they ought to start in Orlando--it seems to have lots more business than Jacksonville when I go through. And I think Atlanta to Chicago makes a lot of sense. And I do wish the train would stop in Chattanooga!!
Atlanta started as a city because of confluence of railroads, didn't it? So it's hard to belive there are now so few passenger trains there, and their train station is so little (but busy!)
notelvis Member # 3071
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The current Atlanta station was originally a suburban depot and never intended to be the primary rail passenger station for a city that size.
There were two railroad terminals located downtown near where the Philips Arena stands today. When those stations were closed and demolished (at the time Amtrak started or a little before.....others on this forum may know more precisely when), Southern Railway moved their remaining passenger trains out to the suburban Peachtree Station as it was then known. Those trains were the Southern Crescent which survives as Amtrak's Crescent and a day train between Atlanta and Washington known as the PIedmont. This original Piedmont was discontinued south of Charlotte in June 1975 and eliminated altogether just after Thanksgiving in 1976. The name was resurrected by the North Carolina DOT for their Raleigh - Charlotte train which began operating in the 1990's.
Bottom line though, the Atlanta station was barely adequate 30 years ago and despite being enlarged since, is a very croded place at train time!
George Harris Member # 2077
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David, I believe that the downtown Terminal Station was demolished after the Royal Palm was discontinued, leaving the only passenger service Washington Atlanta Birmingham New Orleans. I think that was in 1969. I am pretty sure that Union Station lasted until Amtrak, with the last train being the St. Louis Nashville Atlanta remnant of the Georgia, operating on a fairly slow schedule with a single coach.
For Atlanta - Macon - Jesup - Jacksonville: this was the route of the old Kansas City Florida Special. Macon to Jesup is light rail, slow speed, I believe 25 mph, and has never had signals. It would need a lot of work to bring up to normal speed passenger service (79 mph), and actually by the time you did that it would take very little more to make it good for 110. The ex KC-Florida Special route is almost dead straight and when both trains were still running, was actually a faster route Macon to Jacksonville than the route used by the Royal Palm through Valdosta, even though that line had signals.
Two other issues: North of Macon, NS was passenger trains to go on the ex CofG line instead of the shorter ex Southern line. South of Jesup, the trains will be on the CSX line through the Folkston Funnel, so if any serious fast service is planned, a third track south of Folkston would seem to be in order, in addition to doubling Folkston to Jesup.
George
notelvis Member # 3071
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Hi George,
Your recollection of downtown Atlanta stations sounds correct. Southern had moved out to Peachtree before Amtrak but I wasn't sure when. Since Southern did not initially join Amtrak, the history of their passenger service didn't come to an end May 1, 1971 as it did for most other private carriers.
There is one loose end here.....the former Central of Georgia's 'Nancy Hanks' did continue to operate out of downtown Atlanta (Union Station I presume) until Amtrak began. It was discontinued April 30, 1971 because CofG joined Amtrak even though it was a wholly owned (and merged) Southern Railway subsidiary. In fact, there was some question at the time whether Southern Railway could put the CofG into Amtrak (paving the way to discontinue the Nancy Hanks) while keeping itself out. This move of sacrificing the Atlanta-Savannah train, it has been speculated, is what made keeping Southern's other four remaining passenger trains out of Amtrak possible.
George Harris Member # 2077
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I had forgotten about the Nancy Hanks when I was writing. Central of Georgia operated out of Terminal Station, so I don't know what they did about it. It may have been extended to Peachtree as being worth the cost to get rid of the expense fo operating Terminal and the reverse moves on the Southerner. Pretty sure it never used Union. As I recall reading in more than one place, the Georgian was the only train in Union for the last year or so.
George
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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March 1969 Guide shows Terminal Station in operation. March 1971 Guide shows Nancy Hanks using 'Spring Street Station". I think that was at the SRY Atlanta General Offices.
Incidentially, an interesting yet ominous note appears at both the SRY and CofG March 1971 Guide pages:
NOTE TO PATRONS: Effective May 1, 1971, a basic system of rail passenger service will be operated by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation. Passenger trains represented in these tables may or may not be included in that basic system. However, any tickets issued that are unused in whole or in part will be accepted by the issuing carrier for refund in accordance with tariff regulations.
palmland Member # 4344
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Didn't the Georgia RR continue to operate a mixed train into Atlanta from Augusta after Amtrak? I believe it had something to do with a tax benefit as long they provided passenger service. Anyone know where that train went. I suspect it tied up at Hulsey yard??
I vote for using the Atlanta to Flordia routing using the Nancy Hanks routing to Savannah. While longer, you would provide an intrastate service that Georgia might help with, and get on CSX higher speed Nahunta cut off which until the Silver Palm died had demonstrated capacity - in theory - for the extra train.
Savannah is also one of the few smaller cities on Amtrak that has capacity to hold and service additonal trains, as evidenced by AOE that used it for a few days in the spring.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Didn't the Georgia RR continue to operate a mixed train into Atlanta from Augusta after Amtrak? I believe it had something to do with a tax benefit as long they provided passenger service. Anyone know where that train went. I suspect it tied up at Hulsey yard??
Quite correct Mr Palmland. I can recall riding the Mixed Atlanta to Stone Mountain (I had covered the entire line on a 1970 fan trip) circa 1974. The Conductor went "out of his way" to prepare each member of my party of four a legible cash collection receipt - he knew what we wanted!!!!
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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My last conversation with the sales dept. of Amtrak in Washington, DC last week is that the CSX Railroad is dragging it's heels in allowing the Sunset Limited to continue east to Orlando. They haven't yet agreed to inserting the run of the Sunset into their freight run schedules. I do hope they hurry up!
Benson Member # 4421
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I thought CSX was ok with Amtrak returning. People were saying that Amtrak is the one not wanting to restart the service, not CSX.
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
quote:Originally posted by palmland: Didn't the Georgia RR continue to operate a mixed train into Atlanta from Augusta after Amtrak? I believe it had something to do with a tax benefit as long they provided passenger service. Anyone know where that train went. I suspect it tied up at Hulsey yard??
Quite correct Mr Palmland. I can recall riding the Mixed Atlanta to Stone Mountain (I had covered the entire line on a 1970 fan trip) circa 1974. The Conductor went "out of his way" to prepare each member of my party of four a legible cash collection receipt - he knew what we wanted!!!!
This train, a lone coach tacked on to a regular freight train, actually survived into the 1980's. I think it lasted until the Seaboard System-Chessie System merger which brought us CSX. CSX was more willing to pay the additional taxes than they were to deal with an archaec passenger train operation.
Boyce Member # 2719
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Originally posted by notelvis: This train, a lone coach tacked on to a regular freight train, actually survived into the 1980's.
There is a post on another forum from somebody who actually rode in the passenger coach on this train. I will search for it and re-post it here.
Boyce Member # 2719
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Sorry notelvis, but after a diligent search, I can't find the post but the train as I recall went to South Ga.and was merely a passenger train on paper since a tax break was offered for carrying passengers.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Boyce, the train was a coach on a freight train. It was real. It did accept paying passengers. At one point it was nicknamed the "super mixed" since the freight could be up to 100 cars. It ran Atlanta's Hulsey Yard to Augusta Ga, yard name I do not remember. There was also more traditional looking mixed trains operating on their branches. While it was done for the tax break, it was done honestly. The schedule was listed and people did turn out to ride it. Probably very few for real transportation reasons, but none the less, in a presumedly free country we do not and should not have to give our reasons for traveling to anybody in a corporation or government unless we are asking them to pay for it.
George
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by Boyce: Sorry notelvis, but after a diligent search, I can't find the post but the train as I recall went to South Ga.and was merely a passenger train on paper since a tax break was offered for carrying passengers.
I have a friend from our mutual interest in another activity who, I learned just last week, is a rail enthusiast. He is a native Georgian who during his college days at UGA rode one of the 'other' Georgia Railroad mixed trains. He and a couple of friends were accomodated in a caboose out of Athens, GA.
I do recall seeing timetables for the Atlanta-Augusta operation in the Official Railway Guide through the 1970's with a note that 'other' services were availale for the asking.
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