posted
On my past Amtrak Trips I have found out that after I returned from my trip Amtrak would charge me double long after I have returned from my trip(2 weeks after I have arrived home) from the dining car. I am afraid some attendant is pulling a scam.I use a debit card and if god forbid they charged me two weeks later and I had no funds then what do you do.
Have you noticed that they charge you for a date that you were never on the train. For instance Amtrak charged me $10.50 on such and such a date after I left.
AFAIK Amtrak has a wireless POS which dowloads all the transactions to the CC system. So even if this were done at the end of the trip it would have been 2 days later max.
If Amtrak is trying to overcharge us then what is going on?
I have disputed every late charge as I figure Amtrak needs to do it right away like any business.
Whenever I book airlines it shows the date it was booked and it was correct.
Please help me on this one!
Mr. Toy Member # 311
posted
I'm a little confused. Are you saying you were charged twice for the same meal? Once while you were actually on the train and again two weeks later? If that happened to me, my first call would be to Amtrak, and my second call would be to my bank, which guarantees to cover any unauthorized usage. If it happened multiple times, I would call the department of consumer affairs.
Personally, I prefer not to use debit cards for any transaction that takes the card out of my sight as is done in restaurants. Its too easy for an unscrupulous person to get your number and drain your bank account without your knowing until a check bounces. I only use debit cards where I can swipe the card myself. I always use credit cards for internet, phone, and restaurant transactions. With credit cards, its easier to dispute an unauthorized charge before the money goes out of your bank account.
George Harris Member # 2077
posted
Unfortunately, if you have ever had any financial difficulties, carrying a credit care can be exhorbitantly expensive. So, for those people, it is either carry a debit card or large wads of cash. There is a real need to resurrect usury laws and have one for interstate transactions. The only difference between some of these rates and robbery is the lack of a gun in your face. Fortunately not my experience but I have seen the bills of some people asking for advice.
Geoff M Member # 153
posted
I am wary of letting my card go out of my sight anywhere. But now we have chip and PIN in the UK they have to bring a portable terminal to your table so you can enter your PIN into the machine yourself. This on its own has probably cut card crime significantly.
I have, however, handed over my card on Amtrak before without the sort of problems travelplus seems to be having. If this is a genuine double charging then that sounds more like an error than deliberate fraud, given the small amounts quoted. The details given seem a little sparse on detail but Mr. Toy's advice is sound.
Regarding credit card costs, well, there are none in the UK unfortunately. Just wacking great interest rates and late payment charges if you're not careful. Store cards often have rates of 25-30% APR here. It's far too easy to get into debt. The government have "cracked down" which means they've thought about it, written a few non-compulsory words of advice to lenders, and therefore pretty much done zilch (as uaual).
Geoff M.
CoastStarlight99 Member # 2734
posted
I always travel Sleeping Car and leave cash tips. The one time I had no cash onboard, I used my debit card in the Cafe car to purchase a snack. This was on the Southwest Chief westbound (was getting into Los Angeles the next day). The charge appeared that next day. Amtrak uses credit card "imprinters" which takes that etched copy of your card. When the crew gets back to the base (such as Los Angeles) I believe that is when the transactions are processed. I am suprised it would take 2 weeks. I don't know why you would dispute a charge that you made, regardless of when it appears on your statement...
As for wireless POS credit card processing, the Acela Express Cafe now uses this method. MORE
dilly Member # 1427
posted
A couple of weeks ago, I took a complicated, cross-country Amtrak trip from New York, using the Crescent, City of New Orleans, California Zephyr, San Joaquins, and Pacific Surfliner. I stopped off in various cities. Naturally, I used my credit card extensively.
Toward the end of my trip, I was contacted by my credit card company. They said that someone was mysteriously attempting to use my card -- in person -- at various large stores and gas stations back East.
I found this quite strange, since I was out West at the time the "unauthorized activity" was happening, have only one credit card (which was still in my wallet), and I've never used it at a gas station since I don't own a car.
I always try to keep an eye on my card while using it. But evidently, during my trip, my card's magnetic stripe had been secretly "skimmed," either by a retail swipe mechanism that had been illegally bugged, or by an unscrupulous employee who had sneakily re-swiped my card through a tiny hand skimmer during a normal transaction. The current trend, evidently, is that the stolen magnetic information is then sold/relayed to persons unknown, who use it to manufacture one (or more) bogus cards bearing the stolen name and account number.
Of course, my card could have been illegally skimmed at a store or hotel. But it also could have been skimmed at a train station (I have no idea whether Amtrak's Quik-Trak machines are secured against illegal bugging). Then too, the "magnetic theft" could have taken place on board a train when I made a purchase in a lounge car. Unlike some members of this forum, I don't hold the view that all Amtrak employees are living saints.
Bottom line: Never hand a debit card to someone you don't know. When using a credit card, keep a close eye on that "friendly" employee, even when you're traveling by train. Always question any strange or duplicate charges on your monthly statement. And get a copy of your credit report from all three credit reporting agencies at least once a year.
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20thCenturyLimited Member # 1108
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy: I'm a little confused. Are you saying you were charged twice for the same meal? Once while you were actually on the train and again two weeks later? If that happened to me, my first call would be to Amtrak, and my second call would be to my bank, which guarantees to cover any unauthorized usage. If it happened multiple times, I would call the department of consumer affairs.
Personally, I prefer not to use debit cards for any transaction that takes the card out of my sight as is done in restaurants. Its too easy for an unscrupulous person to get your number and drain your bank account without your knowing until a check bounces. I only use debit cards where I can swipe the card myself. I always use credit cards for internet, phone, and restaurant transactions. With credit cards, its easier to dispute an unauthorized charge before the money goes out of your bank account.
You're too paranoid. I use debit cards in restaurants, online -everywhere. And I have even disputed charges. Never had a problem. Checks? I don't write them anymore (except one check a month). I pay all my bills online. I don't even have a Visa or MasterCard Credit card. I have one Visa Debit Card and one MasterCard Debit Card and American Express. That's it.
20thCenturyLimited Member # 1108
posted
quote:Originally posted by dilly: Bottom line: Never hand a debit card to someone you don't know.
Way too paranoid. I guess you don't use it in restaurants either.
dilly Member # 1427
posted
quote:Originally posted by 20thCenturyLimited:
quote:Originally posted by dilly: Bottom line: Never hand a debit card to someone you don't know.
Way too paranoid. I guess you don't use it in restaurants either.
Actually, I never use my debit card for retail transactions (on Amtrak trains or elsewhere). I use it only for personal cash withdrawals at a bank ATM.
If I may also speak for Mr. Toy, the point we're trying to make is that your debit card, unlike a credit card, deducts money directly from your bank account.
Your debit card can be lost, stolen, or electronically "skimmed" by a store or restaurant employee. In the latter case, the employees typically do it using a pager-sized card swiper hidden in their palm, or simply rely on the regular store/restaurant swiper, where the slot has been quietly fitted with a removable "skimmer" bug. It's not about printing out an extra blank charge slip so they can buy a new TV on your dime. It's about obtaining the magnetic data on the back of your card so they can steal your money.
You won't see them do it (it's done in the blink of an eye, often right in front of the customer) and you'll still have the physical card, so you won't realize the data has been stolen until days or weeks afterward.
Once your information is stolen, the thieves will have direct access to your bank account, and can empty it with a few keystrokes. What's worse, sophisticated thieves can do it without knowing your PIN number.
At the very least, you'll be left without cash and be unable to write checks. Checks you've recently written will bounce. Online bills will not be paid.
Ultimately, you could spend weeks going through legal hoops, red tape, and bank paperwork to get your money back. And that's if you report the incident in the exact manner and within the precise time period specified in your bank's fine print (which varies from bank to bank, and can be as little as 48 hours after the card or its magnetic information is stolen). In extreme cases, a bank may refuse to reimburse you at all.
Paranoid? Read my earlier post. Having just had my own encounter with the practice of illegal "card skimming" (luckily, I wasn't using a debit card), I prefer to stick to a regular credit card, safeguard my bank balance, and not hand strangers and thieves the key to my hard-earned money.
posted
There was a report on one of the news chanels a few months back which showed how many of the scams Dilly describes are done. Another trick to trap the unwary is to set up a card "cleaner" next to an ATM. It says it will clean your magnetic strip to make it work better, but what it really does is steal your card info.
20thCenturyLimited Member # 1108
posted
quote:Originally posted by dilly: Ultimately, you could spend weeks going through legal hoops, red tape, and bank paperwork to get your money back. And that's if you report the incident in the exact manner and within the precise time period specified in your bank's fine print (which varies from bank to bank, and can be as little as 48 hours after the card or its magnetic information is stolen). In extreme cases, a bank may refuse to reimburse you at all.
You must have a Really.Crappy.Bank. The moment you realize there has been identity theft or if you have lost your debit card and it has been used fraudulently, if you report it right away, you're not liable, and the maximum you could be liable for is fifty bucks....I have two accounts, one with Bank of America and one with Citibank...you might want to look into switching....
Tanner929 Member # 3720
posted
Often if they do not have a POS operations debit card charges will be sent to the bank as a credit card until the bank see's its a debit. Sometimes if you use a debit card the money comes right out of your account, othertimes, often in restraunts it might take a few days to for your account to be debited. As far as not having money in your account well that's up to you, if you get a seperate charge then you should change cards. Some establishments will not accept debit cards (some car rental companys for one) .
DeeCT Member # 3241
posted
My bank also 20th Century. The safety net of not being liable for fraudulent use is actually one of the bank's "selling points" for the checking account. --- Dee
dilly Member # 1427
posted
quote:Originally posted by 20thCenturyLimited: You must have a Really.Crappy.Bank. The moment you realize there has been identity theft or if you have lost your debit card and it has been used fraudulently, if you report it right away, you're not liable, and the maximum you could be liable for is fifty bucks....I have two accounts, one with Bank of America and one with Citibank...you might want to look into switching....
As a matter of fact, my current debit card and credit card are both with BofA. And a number of years ago -- when debit cards were new and I did my banking with Citibank -- the checking account linked to my Citibank debit card was mysteriously drained of all remaining funds shortly after I'd finished Christmas shopping at a large mall, even though the card had been returned to me after each transaction.
Luckily, I didn't keep a large cash balance in my account. But I didn't become aware of the theft (or that my checking account was empty) until I unsuccessfully tried to withdraw $40 from a Citibank ATM several days later. By that time, a number of my already-mailed checks had unceremoniously bounced.
What's more, Citibank spent more than two months "investigating" before they reinstated the lost funds to my bank account. And much longer waits are apparently very common. The issue isn't about being "liable" for unauthorized purchases on your card. It's about giving dishonest people a handy tool for cleaning out your bank account.
So if you're rich enough to casually absorb such an unexpected hit to your finances? And you have no problem waiting weeks or months to have your lost cash reimbursed? My hat comes off to you.
But from the sound of your post, you may be a little too trusting when it comes to those smiling waiters, waitresses, and even train conductors who disappear with your debit card for minutes at a stretch.
And that's a very easy way to get burned.
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TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
posted
I am having so much trouble with service on my Guest Rewards (MBNA/Bank of America) credit card that I intend to close the account. First they charge me a $29 late charge on a $50 balance when I recieved their statement after the due date.
Then when I tried to call them I was twice put on hold for over 30 minutes until I just gave up. Next I tried 2 e-mails where they say they will respond within 12 hours. After 3 days, no response. I would hate to be in the situation of reporting a stolen card with that kind of service.
By comparison, my Wells Fargo and Citicard accounts have given me excellent and prompt service for decades.
Room Service Member # 2405
posted
You can avoid a lot of trouble by paying online.
Perhaps there will be better service now that AGR is managed by Bank of America instead of MBNA.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
I'm sorry to learn that BofA is looking at the MBNA playbook for managing credit card accounts.
Apparently, they have now integrated the two systems as my Master Charge (ex-MBNA) and BankAmericard (ex-BofA) statements are identical in format. Albeit, such is a new format, but it more resembles that formerly used by MBNA than BofA.
Despite the anti-fraud provisions noted here regarding debit cards (I've never had one - just an ATM that FAIK is good only at my local independent bank's three branches), I still think you have more safety using a credit card. I've had double charges myself (one coming to mind I'm certain was intentional) but credit cardholders simply address the issuer and without any concern a checking account will end up overdrawn.
Disclaimer: Author holds position in BAC
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: I am having so much trouble with service on my Guest Rewards (MBNA/Bank of America) credit card that I intend to close the account. First they charge me a $29 late charge on a $50 balance when I recieved their statement after the due date.
"Life isn't fair"
As unfair as it may sound, I believe the "think' amongst credit card issuers is that the burden is upon the cardholder to be mindful of their Statement Cycle Date, and if such is not timely received, to still make the required payment by the Due Date.
train lady Member # 3920
posted
Twice my Chase bill didn;t come so I called them ,got the amt and address and sent it off. Lucky I did because the bills were not only late they never did come.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
posted
The point I was trying to make about the Amtrak Guest Rewards credit card is that already poor customer service seems to have deteriorated since Bank of America took over. When it was just MBNA I could at least call or e-mail them and get a timely response. Not getting through after 30 minutes on the phone is very bad service. So is non-response to e-mails after 4 days (and counting), when the website says they will respond within 12 hours.
By comparison, I just e-mailed a question to CitiCards and got a response almost immediately. Two credit card companies I virtually quit using for 3 years to accumulate Guest Reward points have given me excellent service. They also give me much more time between the bill and the due date, and never charged a fee if full balance payment was received before the statement closing date (which mine was, just the due date was missed).
As for paying online, I prefer only to give my bank routing number to institutions I trust. MBNA/BofA regularly mails me statements close to the due date, and now charges (for me) a 60% late fee, I feel they are looking for an income source at the expense of their customers. They may not be happy with customers like me who always pay the full balance, but I think they still make something like 2-3% on my purchases, and I was often charging well over a grand per month.
All of us should support businesses who partner with Amtrak. I rent from Hertz at higher prices just because they cater to rail passengers with locations in Amtrak stations. But I will not be loyal to someone who offers an inferior product. If some other bank would take over Guest Rewards they would get all of my business.
20thCenturyLimited Member # 1108
posted
quote:Originally posted by dilly:
quote:Originally posted by 20thCenturyLimited: You must have a Really.Crappy.Bank. The moment you realize there has been identity theft or if you have lost your debit card and it has been used fraudulently, if you report it right away, you're not liable, and the maximum you could be liable for is fifty bucks....I have two accounts, one with Bank of America and one with Citibank...you might want to look into switching....
As a matter of fact, my current debit card and credit card are both with BofA. And a number of years ago -- when debit cards were new and I did my banking with Citibank -- the checking account linked to my Citibank debit card was mysteriously drained of all remaining funds shortly after I'd finished Christmas shopping at a large mall, even though the card had been returned to me after each transaction.
Luckily, I didn't keep a large cash balance in my account. But I didn't become aware of the theft (or that my checking account was empty) until I unsuccessfully tried to withdraw $40 from a Citibank ATM several days later. By that time, a number of my already-mailed checks had unceremoniously bounced.
What's more, Citibank spent more than two months "investigating" before they reinstated the lost funds to my bank account. And much longer waits are apparently very common. The issue isn't about being "liable" for unauthorized purchases on your card. It's about giving dishonest people a handy tool for cleaning out your bank account.
So if you're rich enough to casually absorb such an unexpected hit to your finances? And you have no problem waiting weeks or months to have your lost cash reimbursed? My hat comes off to you.
But from the sound of your post, you may be a little too trusting when it comes to those smiling waiters, waitresses, and even train conductors who disappear with your debit card for minutes at a stretch.
And that's a very easy way to get burned.
----------------
I've never had a problem and I don't intend to change my ways either. You've had a bad experience.
Are you older?
20thCenturyLimited Member # 1108
posted
quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket:
As for paying online, I prefer only to give my bank routing number to institutions I trust.
You pay online through your own bank.
Geoff M Member # 153
posted
quote:Originally posted by 20thCenturyLimited: I've never had a problem and I don't intend to change my ways either. You've had a bad experience.
Are you older?
Older and much, much wiser by the sound of it. Just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean to say it won't happen. The comments made by others here about precautions they take is all sensible advice that you would do well to follow.
Remember that every time you let fraud happen, yes you get your money back - but who pays for the fraud? You do - in higher interest rates and higher annual charges.
Geoff M.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
posted
20CenturyLimited: "You pay online through your own bank."
In the context of this discussion, the "paying online" I meant is not through my own bank. It is one of the options you use when your paper statement does not arrive on time. Credit card companies and most other businesses allow you to make an immediate payment online or by phone (or eternally on hold in BofA's case) so that your payment will be timely. You must give them the transit routing number of your personal checking or savings account to complete the transaction.
Even though anyone can read the transit routing number on your checks, no one is allowed to use it unless you give it to them, just like a credit card number. It then allows them to withdraw funds from your personal account without your signature. Your bank will not give out this number to just anyone who asks. I deal with banking law in my work, so I know I am accurate, at least in this state.
I prefer to be selective in giving out this number, because the business you give it to can take money from your accounts for transactions you might believe you did not specifically authorize. It has happened many times. And once an item is in dispute, whoever has the money in their pocket has the upper hand.
Electronic banking is a wonderful convenience, but sometimes you are safer with good old fashioned checks and cash, which also protects you from companies who track all your purchases and profile you for junk mail and voting drives. I get an amazing amount of rail related junk mail, and unless NARP sold it's member list, someone is tracking my purchases. I like to let them know I use Amtrak alot, but for most other things it's none of their business.
By the way, BofA (Guest Rewards account) finally responded to my first e-mail of 4 days ago (the one they say they will respond to within 12 hours). They said I had to call the number that I could never get through on -which is why I e-mailed them to begin with!?! Their customer service dept must be where UP dispatchers go when they get demoted. These are people who should get to play with my transit routing number?
train lady Member # 3920
posted
Mr. Rocket, if you go to gethuman.com you will get a list of major companies in many catagories that tells you how to get through to a human bypassing the push one etc route. I have used it many times and it is great.
Pojon Member # 3080
posted
I have tried for more than 3 months to get Bank of America to move my business credit card payment due date from the 29th of the month to the 4th day of the month for payments. They keep promising me it will happen and it hasn't yet happened. Of course they keep charging me late payment fees and a higher rate of interest on my balances. Sneaky these banks, aren't they!!!???
zephyr Member # 1651
posted
As railfans, don't any of you use Capital One?
I mean, here's a credit card company forking out millions on advertising rail travel.
I know GBN and others may missed these commercials. So let's do an overview.
You see, this bank (that be Capital One) has been promoting their credit card as having the best mileage rewards program. It's the "what's in your wallet?" ad.
In their current commercial, a family hops aboard a freight (message: that's the best they could do, because they used the wrong card). Dufus dad tries to make the best of it (ain't this great, kids?).
The kids notice they are not alone in the box car (two hobos are reclining in the shadows). Dufus dad (the guy with the wrong card in his wallet) explains they are vagabonds. Cool, huh?
Then the little girl says: "I smell old cheese."
One of the vagabonds points to his partner and explains: "Ah, that's just ole' Earl."
Dufus dad cheerfully supports this thesis: "See, that's just ole' Earl, dear."
The clip closes with dufus dad teaching grandma how to depart the train ("roll when you hit the ground").
The final scene is grandma in a cloud of dust with the freight passing by in the backgound angrily asking that timeless question: "What's in your wallet?"
So, what lessons does this near-public service announcement teach us? Well, first, be mindful on what you're packing in your wallet. Carrying the wrong card may make you a dufus and smell like Earl. And second and most important, remember to roll when you jump off a moving train.
20thCenturyLimited Member # 1108
posted
quote:Originally posted by Geoff M:
quote:Originally posted by 20thCenturyLimited: I've never had a problem and I don't intend to change my ways either. You've had a bad experience.
Are you older?
Older and much, much wiser by the sound of it. Just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean to say it won't happen. The comments made by others here about precautions they take is all sensible advice that you would do well to follow.
Remember that every time you let fraud happen, yes you get your money back - but who pays for the fraud? You do - in higher interest rates and higher annual charges.
Geoff M.
Listen, I'm not worried about it. If it thought it was dangerous (which I don't), I wouldn't do it. People would do better dumping their credit cards and just using debit cards. Keep an AMEX for travel expenses. That's all you need.
George Harris Member # 2077
posted
Corollary to the statement, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it," is "those who will not learn from the experiences of others are doomed to repeat them - too their sorrow."
train lady Member # 3920
posted
Amen, George. You have quoted one of my favorite sayings. It used to be a quote over one of the entrances to The College of William aand Mary in Williamsburg, Va. Haven't been down lately so I don't know if it's still there. Too bad more people from the top down don't heed it.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
quote:Originally posted by zephyr: As railfans, don't any of you use Capital One?
I know GBN and others may missed these commercials. So let's do an overview.
Regretably, Mr. Zephyr, I am quite mindful of that tripe.
That ad, along with any other that financial institution has circulated would hardly make me want to seek to do business with them for anything.
Of course, I am quick to note that if ever I were to become a Flight Attendant in this life, I think I would be about as good in the job as is CapOne's in their TV ad depicting such.
However, I should not holler too loud about CapOne. Until last March, I held a position in a New York area regional bank (NYSE: NFB). Cap One (NYSE: COF) announced a takeover, NFB, after not having budged in almost a year one way or the other, took at 15% 'one day pop' - I was "out' two clicks after logging on to Schwab - I could have cared less that the gain was Short Term (would have needed antoher 20 days for an LT).
I know what was in MY wallet - some $$$$$ that were used to 'pay down' an auto bought during '05.
Geoff M Member # 153
posted
Capital One spend vast amounts on advertising in the UK. I get junk mail through the door from them virtually every week. Guess who pays for the advertising? You guessed it. Purely on that basis I stubbornly refuse to have anything to do with them.
I think the only time I have EVER been swayed by advertising was when Morgan Stanley were showing TV adverts ("commercials") where the lady of the house was struggling to tile the bathroom while sitting in the bath. Her husband comes along, knight in shining armour, and says "don't worry love, I've got this" and pulls out his MSDW credit card. She beams, but then he starts grouting with the card. Her face was a picture! I thought it was so funny, and I needed a credit card, so that was the one I went for!
Geoff M.
zephyr Member # 1651
posted
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Regretably, Mr. Zephyr, I am quite mindful of that tripe.
That ad, along with any other that financial institution has circulated would hardly make me want to seek to do business with them for anything.
Well OK, Mr. Norman. That's your decision. But don't blame anyone but yourself if you start to smell like Vagabond Earl.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
Come on, Mr. Zephyr, are you trying to tell me you think that ad was effective?
If you believe that be the case, then I guarantee you they are pitching their product to a market segment of which I am not part.
For what it be worth, I hold Master Charge issued by MBNA (not an AGR), BankAmericard issued by BofA, and American Express.
train lady Member # 3920
posted
I am with you, Mr. Norman. I will no more buy something because their of adds than I will vote for someone because some celebrity,political figure or newspaper endorsed them.
zephyr Member # 1651
posted
Actually, Mr. Norman, I suspect you and I are birds of a feather on this issue.
I believe it was you who had a great take on the credit card biz. I think I recall you (not on this thread, but another) liken this industry to the cigarette industry. There are similarities. For example, each spending millions on advertising and promotions, knowing the costs will be more than recouped once they get 'em "hooked." And the addiction to either can lead to health problems, physical by one and fiscal by the other.
I personally don't pack a Cap One. But is their advertising effective? Yep. I can't begin to tell you how much sleep I've lost worrying about being viewed as a dufus dad. Or smelling like Earl. As I'm sure you're aware, I'm very sensitive about how I'm viewed and smelled. So my abstinence from Cap One is an ongoing struggle.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
Here is an earlier credit card topic at which I participated and to which I believe Mr. Zephyr is referring"
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Corollary to the statement, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it," is "those who will not learn from the experiences of others are doomed to repeat them - too their sorrow."
I gave up credit cards almost ten years ago (visa and mastercard) and I've never looked back. I pay cash for just about everything (through my debit cards), even very large purchases (over one thousand dollars). It's great, no bills, no interest, and I pay my Amex Optima Card balance in full at the end of every month. I've never once had a problem, and it's NOT a problem. You are free to do what you want with your own accounts.
posted