posted
My wife and I are planning a trip on the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver this fall. Is this the proper place to ask questions about it? The "International" forum description says it's for messages about trains outside North America.
Thanks.
Jerome Nicholson Member # 3116
posted
You'll find this board an excellent place to ask those questions. Bring 'em on.
graynt Member # 17
posted
Hi Henry. First of all, I have your book on the Zephyr in my collection. It always makes for great reading.
I don't know what questions you have about the Canadian, but I took the train from Toronto to Vancouver last spring and it is far superior to anything Amtrak has to offer.
Riding the Canadian is similar to a cruise on rail. In first class you get champagne upon leaving Toronto,Winnipeg and Jasper and there is fresh fruit,coffee,juice and fresh pastries available in the Park car all day.
The meals are incredible..the best food I ever had and for the three day journey you get different meals at every sitting. Its all prepared on board and the quality is exceptional.
There are at least two dome cars..one for sleeper passengers and the others for coach.
Autumn should be a great time. It leaves Toronto around 9AM three days a week and arrives in Vancouver exactly three days later. There are long stopsin Winnipeg and Jasper...enough time a nice walk.
I had an upper berth,the cheapest sleeping accomodation. Th trip is quite costly,but I had to do it at least once,and I m glad I did. If you have any specific questions you have Henry,let me know.
It will be a trip of a lifetime. It sure was for me. Later this year I m taking the Ocean from Montreal to Halifax, another great trip
Italiancanuck89 Member # 1873
posted
When you say upper birth, does that mean you're sharing a room?
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
posted
Thanks. I have noted that the trip is expensive ($2300 USD to Jasper in a compartment for two, plus $550 Jasper-Vancouver in section sleeper berths) but what the hell, it's one of the world's great trains.
I know the scenery on the CN route won't be as spectacular as that on the CPR route pre-1990, but I presume it's still breathtaking.
Does VIA keep the windows clean for photography?
We will probably stay in the Fairmont Jasper lodge in the national park for three nights. Anyone have experience with that? (I know it's expensive but this is our 40th anniversary present to each other....)
Now I need a hotel in Toronto near the station and one in Vancouver. Any recommendations?
We will probably fly Chicago-Toronto and return from Vancouver on the Empire Builder. Both of us have enough frequent flier miles and we were thinking about flying back from Vancouver, but I don't know if we can fly to Toronto and return from Vancouver on the same frequent-flyer tickets. So I guess we'll return on the Builder.
CN 6060 Fan Member # 3093
posted
quote:Originally posted by Italiancanuck89: When you say upper birth, does that mean you're sharing a room?
Not really. It's open seating during the day and when the berths are made up at night, there are curtains to separate you from the aisle. This is the old "Pullman" style accommodation:
posted
Henry -the Canadian is a GREAT train, as others have said! You will enjoy it! Concerning hotels in Toronto, I would suggest the Royal York -- it is directly across the street from Toronto Union Station, and accessible via tunnel beneath the street. You can probably even get a bell-hop at the Royal York to take your baggage all the way to the station for you!
Concerning scenery, the scenery isn't bad on the present route. The first day and a half across Ontario is quite pretty -- you will go through a lot of wilderness dotted with lakes, forests, and an occasional hunting cabin out in the woods -- very pretty scenery. The plains across Saskatchewan and Manitoba are pretty boring, but the trip from Jasper on west through the Canadian Rockies is just as spectacular at the old CP route!!!
I took the Canadian in 1999, and stayed at the Royal York in Toronto.
train lady Member # 3920
posted
Henry, we drove much of that route and I noticed the train tracks fairly often. The sceney is absolutley breathtaking in Alberta and B C. In Jasper we stayed at the Bonne Homme cottages , They were in a wooded area and totally delightful, fireplace,small equiped kitchen and a small patio. Also a spa and laundry ( a must for us who had been traveling for 2 weeks with 2 more to go). It also came equiped with MOOSE who wander around Jasper at will. I insisted my husband come with me to the laundry room as I don't do moose too well. They wander down to the train staion and walk along the platform. I wondered if they ever try to climb aboard. You will see that many yards have 8 ft fences. I was told that is to keep the moose out. We thought parts of Saskatchewan were quite nice,especially Regina. I don't know if the train goes there but we thought it was a rather pretty city. Have a wonderful trip
cdnfan32 Member # 4674
posted
Union Station is on the southside of Front Street between York St on the west and Bay St on the east. There is a hotel half a block north from the stn. on York St. called the Strathcona Hotel which is very reasonable. It's nothing fancy, just a decent place to put your head down. You might want to check its rates as compared to the Royal York, which is a beautiful hotel, but at the top of the price range.
David Member # 3
posted
A sleeping car trip on the Canadian is a great experience. Standards have been maintained and the food and service is excellent. The peak-season fares (1st June to 22nd Oct.) are indeed pricey, but off-peak travel is considerbly cheaper.
Regrettably, the condition of the windows is not always good. But VIA has recently undertaken a window replacement programme for the dome cars. Tinted glass has replaced the plastic-type substance which had become badly scratched over the years. Understandably, the windows will stay cleaner in the better weather.
From late April until early November the Canadian can be huge. As has been noted before, it can be up to 30 cars. It will rarely be fewer than 22 cars during this time. There will be at least three first-class dome cars: the lovely Park car at the end and a dome-lounge ahead of each of the two (and sometimes three) diners.
VIA allows a free stopover on sleeper fares on the Canadian, so a double bedroom for two in off-peak times will cost Can.$2616 from Toronto to Vancouver. For a splurge, a (often hard-to-get)spacious drawing room - officially called triple bedroom these days - costs about $3200.
My wife and I have stayed many times at the Jasper Park Lodge. I can highly recommend it. Before the change of name to Fairmont, the hotel was purchased by Canadian Pacific Hotels from Canadian National Hotels, so it has long been a destination for rail travellers. By road, it is four miles from "downtown" Jasper, although there is a route for walkers that is somewhat shorter - about three miles. I walked it only once on a very hot July day. The hotel's van will meet you upon arrival at the railway station and deliver you back for your departure. In peak season there is a limited shuttle service, but taxis are readily available. There are car hiring agencies in the station and at least one other nearby. Fairmont, like most hotel chains, quotes rather high rates when asked long in advance. Two or three months in advance there are usually much better deals available. I recommend a bit of a splurge on a deluxe room (partial lake view and sitting area.) An off-season random date I checked was Can.$219 for a basic room and only $259 for a deluxe one. There are many more modestly-priced hotels in town. You could, as we once did, split your stay in Jasper.
There were a lot of elk (not moose) around the town and the Lodge, but steps have been taken to keep most of them further away.
For Toronto, I have viewed a friend's room in the Strathcona and it was quite adequate for the modest price. The Royal York can be expensive, but they also have some good deals. Before my last trip on the Canadian (mid-December) my wife and I stayed at the Royal York for a special rate of about Can.$150. This included buffet breakfast for two and a half-bottle of Champagne (and I mean the real thing) which I brought on the train trip.
rresor Member # 128
posted
I've stayed at a Novotel about a block east of the train station along York Street. Perfectly acceptable, and much cheaper than the Royal York, where I've also stayed. There is also a L'Hotel about four blocks west, near the CN Tower. Its attraction is that the rooms on the east side have a wonderful view of the west throat tracks of Union Station. The last time I stayed there, I could trainwatch while lying on my bed!
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
Since Mr. Kisor's journey appears to be of the "price not all that much of an object', where else but the Royal York and the Hotel Vancouver? Both were formerly CP Hotels, but now as I learned here at the Forum are Fairmont.
train lady Member # 3920
posted
Be they moose or elk they are huge and intimidating to me.
sojourner Member # 3134
posted
I am not so worried about moose and elk as about grizzly bears.
train lady Member # 3920
posted
I don't know if there are bears in Jasper proper. Wild animals are moving into the populated areas these days. We have among "lesser" animals a red fox who hangs out in our yard and a neighbor called to tell me to watch our granddog as there is a cayote walking around the neighborhood. I thought they were only in the west. So maybe there are bears in Jasper.
royaltrain Member # 622
posted
Two months ago I rode The Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver where I connected to the Cascade train to Seattle and then on to Los Angeles and finally to Chicago and back to Toronto. The Canadian was far above any Amtrak train for quality of service, the superior sleeping cars and excellent meals in the dining car. The Canadian is expensive which is why I usually ride it in the winter to take advantage of the lower fares, but it is worth every penny. The most obvious difference between the two railways is the quality of food and service in the diner. This is particularly so since the introduction of simplified dining service on Amtrak. It is such a joy to be welcomed into The Canadian’s dining car and sitting where you wish to sit and enjoying a properly cooked meal. On Amtrak you often have to fight with the crew who, due to some little whim of theirs, insist that you sit on the side of the table they demand. The Amtrak crews have apparently never heard of the art of fine dining.
As for the sleeping cars, the Via trains are much more comfortable with much thicker mattresses and with toilets that almost always work. Mechanical breakdowns on Via do occur, but at far less frequency than Amtrak’s. I don’t mean to put Amtrak down, however, by any objective standard The Canadian is far superior to Amtrak in both services and amenities.
By the way I had a parlour car on #11 out of Seattle and everything worked just fine in my deluxe bedroom. The same for the SW Chief and the lake Shore Limited and amazingly enough on Amtrak every train was on-time or just a few minutes late, whereas the Canadian was over four hours late into Vancouver. So Amtrak can be reliable on occasion. As a footnote, Via gave me a credit worth over $270 for my late arrival into Vancouver (which I used on a recent trip on Via’s Chaleur). I seriously doubt Amtrak would compensate you for a late arrival
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
posted
Many thanks for the richness of these replies! My wife and I are getting ever more excited about riding the Canadian.
Another question: Where to change U.S. currency into Canadian dollars? What is the most convenient place, and which gives the best rate? I suppose there'd be somewhere in Toronto to do that. The airport? (We will be flying in from Chicago.)
I have not been to Canada since I rode the original Canadian on the CPR route in the late 1980s, months before Via Rail killed the old train. The crew told me all the way to Vancouver that there would be a major "train-off" event in Canada, and the Canadian would be one of the victims. It was kind of a sad time, but I recall the crew as being polished and professional all the same.
notelvis Member # 3071
posted
I imagine that you will find an office to exchange currency at the airport.....very possibly even the train station since there is still an 'international' train arriving from New York each evening. If you stay in one of the more posh hotels downtown you may even be able to exchange currency there.
My wife and I made a trip to Canada in April 2004. We flew to Seattle and took the Talgo train to Vancouver.....where we found a currency exchange office open in the train station....bussed over to Victoria for 3 days, bussed back to Vancouver, and took the Canadian to Winnipeg. I second what others have written about this train.....great food, outstanding service. I hope to get back for another trip on the Canadian soon.
Enjoy the trip and be sure to come back afterwards and tell us how it went. All of us here enjoy a good vicarious rail trip.
train lady Member # 3920
posted
different places have a different rate of exchange. We often found AAA had the best rate so got travelors checks (canadian) before we left. The Canadian banks usually had a better rate of exchange than the borders,airports or hotels. It might be worth it to do some checking before you leave.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: I have not been to Canada since I rode the original Canadian on the CPR route in the late 1980s, months before Via Rail killed the old train. The crew told me all the way to Vancouver that there would be a major "train-off" event in Canada, and the Canadian would be one of the victims.
posted
Question: If a traveler were to take advantage of the North American Rail Pass, how would one go about finding (and comparison shopping) the surcharge to upgrade to a sleeper accommodation on a given travel day? I don't think that there is a way to do it on line or through Julie; it would probably take a live agent. Do you think that a local Amtrak agent would be able to access VIA surcharge information, or would you have to plan on making lots of phone calls to central reservations?
CN 6060 Fan Member # 3093
posted
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: Another question: Where to change U.S. currency into Canadian dollars? What is the most convenient place, and which gives the best rate? I suppose there'd be somewhere in Toronto to do that. The airport? (We will be flying in from Chicago.)
Just use your bank card at an ATM. They are everywhere in Canada and you get the best rate of exchange. I've been using my card at ATMs in the US for years so yours should work just fine here too. Some of the networks the banks here belong to are Plus, Cirrus & Interact.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
posted
Thanks for the ATM info. I think I'll go that route. Mainly it'll be for walking-around cash and tips; we'll be using our credit cards for big stuff.
I made the October reservations this morning:
Toronto-Jasper in a double bedroom, $1787.16 CAN. Jasper-Vancouver in section berths, $ 551.20 CAN.
(Those are senior and senior companion fares.)
We'll be in Toronto overnight, then Jasper three days, then Vancouver two days, taking the bus down to Seattle to pick up the Empire Builder the same day back to Chicago.
Seattle-Chicago in a roomette, $616.70 USD.
In all, the train tickets came to $2631.31 USD for the two of us. Not cheap at all, but I bet worth every penny.
Now for the hotel reservations. It's a bit early to get the special deals from the Fairmont chain, so I'm going to wait a few weeks on that.
sojourner Member # 3134
posted
I don't know about ATMs in Canada but I do know that your credit card also gets the best rate of exchange. When I'm in Canada, I charge just about everything except incidental tips and cab fares. I also keep a little Canadian money from the last trip in case I get in late the first night and want some cash for a taxi or something of that sort.
Another thing you can do when traveling in Canada: keep receipts of your travel in and out of the country as well as receipts for all your accommodations charges. In fact, you can ask hotels to print you up 2 copies of your bill when you check out. Also while there, get a few copies of the government form to request a tax rebate. Be sure you get the official Canadian government form that has you sending the info directly to the government office, not a form for a private exchanger (who will handle it but charge a fee).
Then, when you return to the US, follow instructions on the form to get your tax rebate. They will want original receipts of accommodations charges (which is why I said to get 2 copies of hotel bills) and also of proof of your entering and leaving the country (especially if you went by train; I send the Amtrak stubs).
I believe you get a rebate only on the federal portion of the hotel accommodation tax (not the provincial portion, I don't think) and, I would presume, the same for the tax you pay for sleeping cars on the trains. Depending on how long you stay, the rebate can be substantial; and even for a few nights, I find it worth doing. Getting the rebate takes 6-8 weeks; I have them credit it to my credit card.
I think you can also get a tax rebate for big-item purchases; it might be items over $500, but I don't know details because I don't make those kinds of big purchases. However, some people buy tailored suits, fur clothing or jewelry in Canada. You can find out more about it at a Canadian government web site, I imagine . . ..
Train Lady, I believe there was a time that coyotes were virtually absent east of the Mississippi; but since the 1950s, they traveled back here on the interstate highway system, I kid you not. There have been interesting articles on this phenomenon in Smithsonian Magazine etc etc--they are very smart, and highway travel made things easier, including finding food pretty easily en route. are lots of them around us nowadays (upstate NY). Foxes are less common hereabouts, and they often have this mange or something, plus get hit by cars a lot; but I have seen some over the years, including one family last year. I don't think these critters would bother an adult in most cases, nor would I worry about the bears in the east. But grizzlies are something else!
RRRICH Member # 1418
posted
On my last trip on Amtrak & VIA (1999), I got my Canadian money at a local bank at home before I left for my vacation - you may get a better exchange rate ahead of time, rather than wait till you're at the the airport or train station. After I got to Vancouver on the Canadian, I turned in my few remaining Canadian dollars at the currency exchange desk at the Vancouver VIA station, prior to catching the Cascade Talgo back into the U.S. If you get Canadian money through your local bank ahead of time, however, make sure you get it well ahead of your departure date, since, in my case, the bank had to "order" some Canadian money for me from somewhere else, and it took several days to get it.
Strange but true -- As I've heard before, "American money is good 100 miles north of the Canadian border, but you can't use Canadian money 100 ft south of the border....." Sad but true.
Concerning wildlife in Jasper -- when I was there in 1999, it was a cold rainy day (July 1 - "Canada Day") and I saw no wildlife around the Jasper station. However, on a previous trip back in the 1980's, on the old CP Canadian route through Banff, we saw several elk and other critters hanging around right next to the tracks in Banff!
20th Century Member # 2196
posted
Mr. Kisor, you and the Mrs. will enjoy the Canadian. I wish it rode the CP route, but alas it is still running. And yes, use the ATM. It is so convenient. Sometimes it is a little too convenient.
royaltrain Member # 622
posted
quote:Originally posted by ehbowen: Question: If a traveler were to take advantage of the North American Rail Pass, how would one go about finding (and comparison shopping) the surcharge to upgrade to a sleeper accommodation on a given travel day? I don't think that there is a way to do it on line or through Julie; it would probably take a live agent. Do you think that a local Amtrak agent would be able to access VIA surcharge information, or would you have to plan on making lots of phone calls to central reservations?
I have often found Amtrak's agents hopeless when asking for accurate information on the North America Railpass. Via is much better at this as they have dedicated agents that are trained to answer railpass questions. Call 1-888 VIA-RAIL and ask for the North America Railpass Desk.
train lady Member # 3920
posted
Sojourner, you are right. I had forgotten that we charge just about everything while in Canada. We do get some travelers checks to have currency on hand in case we can't use a card or for small purchases. Also we have gotten very nice refunds on the tax. It takes s a bit of time to get everything together but it was worth it.
David Member # 3
posted
Fairmont's Wesbite doesn't give information about all the reduced rates available. For some discounts, you have to know the code. It may be best to phone a reservation agent and ask about deals. If booking or enquiring on-line, it might be helpful to know the following: "praaa1" for an "AAA" discount and "prbed1" for a bed and breakfast package. I have used the latter a few times at the Jasper Park Lodge and that rate with breakfast for two was cheaper than booking a room alone, but that may not be the case all the time. If a better rate should become available after you book, Fairmont will change it for you as long as it isn't one of those rare "pay in advance - no cancellations" rates.
There can indeed be bears in the Jasper area. On one summer trip, there was a "black bear warning" in the areas immediately adjacent to town after a boy was attacked on his bicycle.
notelvis Member # 3071
posted
Henry,
As if there were nothing to do in Vancouver but allow me to suggest a daytrip for you if you need one -
Check into making a roundtrip on the Pacific Coach bus from Vancouver to Victoria on Vancouver Island. Probably will take you around 7 hours to do this BUT the highlight is that the bus spends about 90 minutes each way riding the BC ferry. Bus passengers leave the bus and make their way upstairs in an elevator. In good weather you can go all the way to the top deck and enjoy the outstanding scenery outdoors. It's like a minature Alaskan cruise......minus the onboard entertainment and with a cafeteria subbing for the exquisite dining rooms.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
posted
I'm the kind of guy who takes a laptop with wireless everywhere, but would it be worth taking on a trip on The Canadian? Out of Toronto there'd be noplace to get onto the Net until Jasper, and does Jasper have high-speed Internet? The hotels don't seem to mention that in their websites. Probably wouldn't be able to get online till Vancouver. Hmmmm. Maybe I oughta leave the MacBook at home.
cdnfan32 Member # 4674
posted
While it is indeed true that the Canadian is a wonderful trip that any rail fan should attempt at least once, I can't help but comment that I feel some sympathy for Amtrak in the comparisons to Via. I think it's a terrible thing that Via has essentially allowed itself to become a "tourist" passenger service. Frankly, their prices border on the absurd and very few Canadians actually use the service for real travel (except in the Ontario/Quebec corridor). When you combine their extortionate prices with the fact the trains only run every few days and on more remote rail lines, it pretty much reduces them to "specialty train" status. Perhaps Amtrak isn't as glamourous, but it's still maintaining enough routes and running trains frequently enough and at acceptable prices that it is a credible alternative to flying long distances. The same certainly cannot be said about Via.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
posted
It does seem that VIA uses the Canadian as a national marketing tool for non-Canadians to come to the country and spend money. In my case, it's working.
I hear you about Amtrak's value to the U.S. as an alternative to flying. The new broom in Washington seems to recognize that, too, and perhaps we can hope for the continued survival of the long-distance train.
RRRICH Member # 1418
posted
cdnfan - I don't know about that..... When I rode the Canadian in 1999, I spent most of my time in the dome car socializing and partying with the other passngers -- it seems that most of them were in fact Canadians, and there were a few Europeans also. I believe I was probably the only American in that dome on the whole trip from Toronto to Vancouver!
Of course, the 3rd day of that trip WAS Canada Day....... They had an "activities director" on that trip, and on Canada Day, we all sang "Oh Canada" while traveling through the Canadian Rockies, with the words printed on a sheet of paper the activity director handed out to everybody!
cdnfan32 Member # 4674
posted
Well, you're right. One will, of course, still find Canadians on Via trains. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I remember in the 70s and into the 80s when I would travel all over the country by train because it was an enjoyable and affordable alternative to flying. Even business people frequently travelled long distances by rail. The trains ran on the CP line (for a time anyway) so the larger centres were served and there were more trains in operation. My point is that now it's very unusual for one to take a cross-country trip by train and business travel by rail is virtually unheard of. So, yes, you'll find Canadians on the Canadian, but they're probably taking the train for a one-off, quirky adventure and not because it's a viable means of transportation. So far, Amtrak seems to have managed to remain a viable means of travel, whereas Via simply hasn't.
jp1822 Member # 2596
posted
Just returned from a trip on the Canadian (westbound Toronto to Vancouver). I take the train during the winter months at least once a year, largely for R&R and to enjoy the changing scenery along the line. Needless to say - it was a great trip. And YES, there were plenty of Canadians aboard using this train for local travel. Some even relocating from west to east or vice versa. We made a number of flagstops etc. Some passengers don't see the Canadians, cause they are sandwiched in between tour groups that have blocked certain cars of the train.
VIA advertises to tour companies much more widely than Amtrak. That's directly from both Amtrak and VIA sources. VIA gets the tour groups a lot quicker than Amtrak.
The Canadian also expands and contracts the trainset, depending on patronage and season. VIA can run up to 30 cars in the summer, with maybe two to three coaches and the remainder being service or sleeper cars. VIA beats Amtrak hands down in weighting their long distance overnight routes with sleeper cars over coach cars.
There is a currency exchange center at the Toronto airport (right after you exit customs and baggage area and head towards the taxis). You can also use ATM machines in Toronto Union Station.
I've always stayed across the street from the Toronto train station at the Fairmont Royal York Hotel. Rates vary for this hotel.
In Jasper you can rent a car - highly recommended to go exploring. Or you can arrange tour packages right from the Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge - but booking a tour early is always good, as things can get booked up during peak season.
You may opt for not renting a car, or perhaps touring a day and then renting a car to tour the Jasper area on your own for another day. I would definitely book a rental car early if you chose this route - car rental agencies can be sold out of cars during certain seasons. Car Rental agencies are either a the train station or walking distance from the Jasper train station.
The Jasper Park Lodge can even hook you up with tours around Jasper prior to your arrival.
I've stayed at the Jasper Park Lodge a few times. There was a room I really liked on one trip, and have never been able to find or book it again. Ask for a room with some sort of view. I always had a view and a porch area. My last room at the lodge, was about one row in from the lake on the south side of the main lodge area. Try to get the reservation clerk at the Jasper Park Lodge to give you a room description and location prior to booking. Also - rates vary widely at this hotel as well. Lot of tour agencies book here and take up blocks of rooms so I am not sure if I would wait too long to book a room at this particuar hotel. Banks in Jasper all have ATM Machines.
In Vancouver, my choice again is the Fairmont Waterfront Hotel - although the magnificent view of harbor and mountains is starting to get a little obstructed by the convention center they are building. I always request a high level room to get a more panoramic view, with some sort of waterview. There is a mall area on the lower level that has ATM machines for cash. Lots of tour packages around Vancouver.
You can even go to Victoria, as someone mentioned, or if the Whistler Mountaineer is still running - you can take a trip up to Whistler. This is related to the Rocky Mountaineer. There's a bus/train option I think or train both ways. You can schedule a round trip for a day jaunt - no need to stay over at Whistler, unless desiring to. Lots of activities up there, but I always found a day trip to be adequate in the seasons I have travelled up there.
Enjoy! Fairmonts are pricey but just have to see what deals or offers you can get! I often view both the Canadian and Jasper Park Lodge as a once in a lifetime splurge (even though I've done this more than once!).
posted