I am thinking about taking a winter train trip on the Canadian. How does service differ from the Summer? Any other hints?
Wesley
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
We just took the trip, 21-25 cars. The staff were about to be laid off, all except senior members. They said they have about 9 cars in the winter. I think the scenery would be spectacular.
Posted by CN 6060 Fan (Member # 3093) on :
Best time of the year to ride! The crowds are gone so lots of personalized service. It’s just a scaled down version of the 30 car trains of the summer but all the amenities are still there. And there's nothing like sitting in the dome on a moon lit night just after a fresh snow fall!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Riding in the winter -
Pros - fewer passengers, cheaper tickets, and the possibility of riding the dome though a snowstorm which is an exhilerating experience.
Cons - fewer daylight riding hours, increased chance of the mountains being fogged in, and taking that walk down the train platform in Edmonton is a horrible experience if you do it during a blizzard.
I'm speaking from firsthand experience on the blizzard part! Still, I would never pass on the opportunity to ride this train even if it were during the winter months.
Posted by CN 6060 Fan (Member # 3093) on :
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: .....and taking that walk down the train platform in Edmonton is a horrible experience if you do it during a blizzard.
But after that walk down the platform the Canadian with it’s warm ambience is waiting!
(Anxiously awaiting my trip this winter and hoping for a snow storm like the last time I rode)
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
Originally posted by notelvis: ...and taking that walk down the train platform in Edmonton is a horrible experience if you do it during a blizzard.
That is, if you survived the stroll through downtown Winnipeg!
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
I have done many a Canadian trip in winter, which is my favourite time of year for riding this train. As was pointed out by others, the pros of cheaper tickets and fewer people on the train are what attract me. As for Edmonton, it's not worth the walk down the snowy platform. The current station was moved out of downtown Edmonton several years ago and is in the middle of a freight yard right next door to an airport. Really nothing to see unless you like long cold walks.
Posted by CN 6060 Fan (Member # 3093) on :
Here's a link to winter travel between Edmonton and Jasper on the Canadian and the Snow Train which uses the Panorama Cars (low level glass roof cars)
Our dining car steward said she works this "fun" train, Edmonton to Jasper, when she is laid off from the Canadian. Runs on the weekend and is one big party.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I'm writing this from Jasper, Alta., where my wife and I debarked from the Canadian yesterday. It's been gray and cloudy all day today, but the vistas are still spectacular. I posted a report on the Toronto-Jasper leg this morning on my blog, www.henrykisor.com/blog.
Our train was 14 cars long leaving Toronto; we cut out two sleepers during the night (I think at Saskatoon, but it might have been at Winnipeg and I didn't notice.)
The train is still superb. Jasper is a great place to railfan because it's spang on the CN's transcon trunk, with scores of freights going by each day.
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
Any trip on the Canadian is special but a winter trip is a must do so go and enjoy yourself in the Dome, have great meals in the Diner and have an excellent trip.
Chris
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Henry, my report on the Canadian will pale in comparison with yours. So literate! I concur with all the good things you said. Once I get my pictures uploaded I will post my report. The elk were indeed all over Jasper. And I have a great shot of a deer standing next to a moving freight train. When the freight stopped he casually hunched down and slipped between two cars while we all held our breath hoping the train didn't move again.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Hopeful, thank you!
The second part of the Jasper dispatch is now on my blog. Not too much train stuff, but I do mention the departure of the Skeena. We reboard the Canadian tomorrow for Vancouver.
I sometimes wish I were The Man Without a Country, doomed to sail the seven seas without being able to set foot ashore -- except on a train. Now wouldn't that be cool?
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
Especially if they still had regular transpacific and trans-Indian Ocean passenger liners, and you had one heck of a trust fund!
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Trust fund? I was going to depend on bank robbery or maybe found a charity for aged and indigent railfans.
By the way, we arrived in Vancouver from Jasper this morning. An excellent dinner on the Canadian again, although this early-supper fanatic had to wait until 8:30 p.m. and the last seating in the dining car.
Our sleeper porter was not as much on the ball as the other two we had, but he was OK. The dining car crew was superb.
Vancouver seems to be a lot less expensive a town than Jasper. For eight bucks you can ride the False Creek ferries around the harbor all day, getting off wherever you want and getting back on. Restaurants are not quite so pricey. Possibly the hot loonie has found its proper price level here.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Photos from the trip are now up on my blog.
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Great pictures Henry and I look forward to more. Mine are still in the works. I too want to take the Skeena, sounds grand. We found everything in Canada to be very expensive, especially dining. And the tax came to about 13-14% between the national and the provincial taxes.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Wonderful pictures (Vicki already used great) I really enjoyed the blog as well/ It brought back such great memories of our trip which included Jasper. Did you get to the icefields and down the Parkway?
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Agreed about the prices! Even though Jasper is a resort town and way up in the middle of nowhere, it takes considerable expense to supply it with food and fuel, so maybe this is one reason prices are so high. Also, up here Canadian retail prices have not yet fallen as the loonie has surged ahead of the US dollar.
We found Vancouver to be MUCH less expensive in terms of restaurants. I liked the city much more than my home town of Chicago. Partly because the city is hosting the 2010 Winter Olympics, it has gotten its transportation system into excellent shape. My wife and I rode all over town on train, bus and ferry for a $8 weekend unlimited ticket each.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
In April 2004 my wife and I spent what we agree was one of the best (if not THE best) vacations we've ever had.
Briefly - we flew to Seattle, spent the night, and took the Cascades Talgo to Vancouver the following morning. From Vancouver we caught the bus (which included a ferry ride) to Victoria for three wonderful, warm, days....one of them spent riding the Vancouver Island RDC's. From Victoria we bused back to Vancouver and caught the Canadian to Winnipeg.....through an Albertan blizzard.
Fantastic trip and I'm eager to go back for another ride on the Canadian......and hopefully a ride on the Skeena too.
Posted by 4021North (Member # 4081) on :
quote:The current station was moved out of downtown Edmonton several years ago
Why?
I thought city centers were generally regarded as being well suited to the location of passenger stations. So as to be accessible to pedestrians, mass transit, and centers of employment.
Posted by CN 6060 Fan (Member # 3093) on :
quote:Originally posted by 4021North:
quote:The current station was moved out of downtown Edmonton several years ago
Why?
I thought city centers were generally regarded as being well suited to the location of passenger stations. So as to be accessible to pedestrians, mass transit, and centers of employment.
My guess would be for the convenience of the host railway: CN. Their main freight line is across the northern part of the city and this is the route VIA’s Canadian follows. Originally there was a loop line used almost exclusively by passenger trains that left the freight line on one side of the city, went downtown to a station located on the lower floor of the CN Office Tower, then rejoined the freight line on the opposite side. This was fine when Edmonton had a lot more passenger trains than the 6 a week (3 each way) they have now. The loop line cut the downtown in half and since the tracks have been removed this land has been redeveloped.
The new VIA station is located at the wye where the loop line rejoined the main line on the west side of the city. The Canadian backs or pulls into a short section of the old loop line still remaining to serve the station.
On the east side of the city the tracks for the rapid transit system use the right-of-way of the old loop line to reach the centre of the city then runs as a subway through downtown. I’ve always thought the more logical location for the new station would have been on the east side where the loop line joined the main and a direct connection to the Edmonton Transit trains would have been available to reach downtown or other areas of the city. The Canadian could have backed in to a new joint station at Belvedere just north of the junction.
Now it’s a $15 cab ride downtown from the new VIA station or a 7-8 minute walk to a bus route.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I hate seeing the beautiful old stations no longer used, but as long as the buildings are preserved I guess I can live with it. But if a passenger train is going to have a station outside town, I think there ought to be some sort of shuttle, minishuttle, or discounted taxi service to the downtown, where the charge is not more than $10 a passenger (or family traveling together), and which is guaranteed to be there whenever the train gets in. I mean, it can be private just contracted to provide the service. It could be something like the minishuttle in Lamy NM to Santa Fe, which you can actually book with your train. Or it could be something as simple as a discount ticket for the taxi. But there should be some way you can be sure to be on it when the train gets in. In fact, this would be valuable even if the train station IS downtown, esp when trains arrive in the middle of the night.
Posted by David (Member # 3) on :
quote:Originally posted by sojourner: I hate seeing the beautiful old stations no longer used, but as long as the buildings are preserved I guess I can live with it. But if a passenger train is going to have a station outside town, I think there ought to be some sort of shuttle, minishuttle, or discounted taxi service to the downtown, where the charge is not more than $10 a passenger (or family traveling together), and which is guaranteed to be there whenever the train gets in. ...
Regrettably, the last downtown Edmonton station wasn't a "beautiful old station;" that one was torn down decades ago. This most recent CN/VIA station was invisible from street level. It was in the basement of CN's office building known as the CN Tower (it had that name before the famous CN Tower in Toronto!) But at least it was downtown. I'm pleased that member 6060 made it clear that it wasn't VIA's idea to have to relocate four miles from downtown. The interactive section of the Edmonton Transit Website shows that you can get from downtown to the station by bus. But it doesn't tell you that the bus stop shown is a mile from the station and that, if I recall correctly, there is no sidewalk on the most direct street for most of the walk up from the bus stop.
As others, I prefer winter - or at least off-season - travel on the Canadian. One of the best advantages of a short train (usually only three or four sleepers) is that dining can be done in two sittings as opposed to three in the peak-season. If the short train is full it may be necessary to have a third sitting, but from my experience it is usually only coach passengers who are required to take that late sitting when the first two are filled with Silver & Blue passengers.
One of the disadvantages of winter travel, naturally, is the lack of daylight - especially in December and January. On a westbound trip it is possible you won't see a mountain if the train is late. Last December I was on the westbound Canadian which arrived early into Jasper and therefore enjoyed some great views for an hour and a half. Two cars had to be added to the train (one revenue and one deadhead) and there were so many complications with these manoeuvres we left two and a half hours late and missed some great scenery. But if you've seen it before or otherwise won't be disappointed if you miss it or annoyed with dining in darkness except for lunch, go for it. The price is right; the passenger loads can be less than capacity and you might even be on time. Remember, if the train is over four hours late there is a late train credit of 50% of the coach portion of the fare.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
The final portion of my trip report on The Canadian (and the Empire Builder) is now on my blog.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I see that the Railforum powers have again (for undisclosed reasons) removed my signature that contains the blog URL. Which is:
This is weird. The signature has suddenly reappeared. My apologies for casting aspersions on the Railforum powers!
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
Henry- Did Via Rail allow you to stop over in Jasper at no additional charge, or did you have to book that as two separate trips ?
Last year I took the Skeena from Prince Rupert to Jasper, and loved it ! The scenery was gorgeous, and there was an unbelievable amount of wildlife. I went Totem Deluxe Class, but would use Comfort Class in the future, as I didn't think Totem was worth the price.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: This is weird. The signature has suddenly reappeared. My apologies for casting aspersions on the Railforum powers!
I'm not technically savvy enough to understand why but my signature is sometimes missing too.... Most often when I'm on a computer other than the one in my office or my laptop and have started my reply before signing in. It's also been known to happen when I am away from home (such as you are) and am operating on an unfamiliar (to my computer) wireless network.
I have enjoyed your blog and photos so far!
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Russ --
I made the Canadian reservations as two separate trips -- I don't know if VIA would have permitted the whole thing to have been on one ticket. I did not think to ask -- I made the reservations on the VIA web site.
David, thanks. I'm back home now. It was a great trip, and my wife (who is not a foamer like me but enjoys rail trips) is already looking forward to our proposed trip next spring to Halifax on VIA Rail's The Ocean.
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Henry - wonderful report and great photos. Me thinks you have a fancier camera than I. I look forward to your report on the Zephyr and the Grand Luxe which apparently has turned into a very short term add-on to Amtrak. I too grieved for the King Street Station that was but it will eventually be restored - at least they are doing something about it.
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by RussM: Henry- Did Via Rail allow you to stop over in Jasper at no additional charge, or did you have to book that as two separate trips ?
Last year I took the Skeena from Prince Rupert to Jasper, and loved it ! The scenery was gorgeous, and there was an unbelievable amount of wildlife. I went Totem Deluxe Class, but would use Comfort Class in the future, as I didn't think Totem was worth the price.
My understanding is that Via will alow you one stopover at no extra charge.
Posted by 4021North (Member # 4081) on :
Thank you 6060 for your information about the Edmonton passenger station.
It sounds even worse than I imagined, like an exercise in poor city planning. Not only moving the station out of downtown, but on top of that, making little or no provision for reaching downtown from the station now that it's moved. Would the money they saved by deactivating the loop, equal the cost to the city and the passengers of not having direct service anymore? What does CN think about this?
I don't like the phrase "to split the town," and I don't think it even applies to passenger trains. I doubt if the so-called redevelopment in place of the tracks helps the downtown, any more than the trains that used to serve it. A passenger loop doesn't take up very much land anyway, especially not compared to the freeways that are otherwise used for access. Even if relatively few trains were using it, I honestly don't understand what could have justified removing it. Particularly for a city of 700,000 that could easily have seen more passenger train traffic in the future. As for the old stations, someday someone is going to have to build new ones in their places.