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I was wondering if anyone has any input on what it's like getting in to Salt Lake City in the middle of the night on the westbound California Zephyr--I know there's only an Amshack there, but is it safe and busy enough waiting by the bus terminal there? Is it easy to get a taxi to your hotel? Have you phoned ahead for one, or were they available even in the middle of the night? At what hotel have you stayed? Is the downtown Hampton Inn any good? What about that Howard Johnson? Both these hotels are so much less in price than the hotels in, for example, downtown Denver and Jackson that they make me worry a little! (Of course I think the hotels in Jackson and esp Denver are really incredibly overpriced! even the Comfort Inn has gone way up!). I am still not sure if my friend can meet me and even if she does, she would likely come the next day flying in to SLC, so I'd have to get to the hotel by myself and stay there that first (half) night. I am concerned about security/location for a woman alone. I also don't want to stay in a real dump with bad beds. Otherwise, I do not need luxury.
At some point, we will have to get to the SLC airport, esp if we take the shuttle from there to Jackson rather than rent a car. Is a taxi from hotel to airport OK pricewise? Is there some other means that is still comfortable with luggage? About how much time should be allowed if one is just catching the shuttle and not a flight?
Also, what about the Amtrak trip back? I don't think I have enough time and money to also go to Reno/Carson City this trip as I was initially considering (though maybe I will overnight in Lincoln & see that capitol!), so I'd likely catch the eastbound Zephyr from SLC. Is it OK to get to the station in early morning? I know it will be late, but I get nervous about "trains can pick up time blahdeedah," as Julia says.
In addition to hotels, any input on what you like doing in SLC would also be much appreciated. I am of course visiting the (newly reopening) capitol and hope to see some of the Mormon sights open to the public--research center, Brigham Young house, I think I might even be able to see the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on a Sunday morning. If there is time, and if my friend doesn't come and/or we don't rent a car, I am also thinking of a bus tour to the Great Salt Lake but I did see that from the late eastbound Zephyr last year--still worth doing? Anything else downtown you recommend? Any restaurant recs for downtown SLC?
Also, regarding Jackson, WY, if I wind up going myself, do you think there is a safety factor? Most of the hotels seem to be motels, i.e., door opens directly to outside without going through any sort of lobby--which often means less than ideal security, but in a resort like Jackson I'm hoping that doesn't matter. Any specific hotel recs for Jackson without a car would also be greatly appreciated.
Finally, how early in the season do you think this trip can safely be booked and not risk Yellowstone being closed for snowy weather? We really do not want to go in height of summer when it is terribly crowded (and when SLC is more likely to be disgustingly hot).
As you can tell, I've decided to do Denver/Salt Lake City & Yellowstone this year, rather than the Skeena, because I was just in the Canadian Rockies last year and also because of Amtrak Guest Reward points vs cold hard cash. Not that I won't spend plenty cold hard cash on Amtrak, but just not as much as I would have to on VIA Rail!
Kiernan Member # 3828
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The best place to stay in Salt Lake City is one of the downtown hotels near Temple Square if you can afford it. Salt Lake City is an interesting place and if the NOx isn't too bad it can be quite beautiful. I think that there's a city bus that runs from downtown to the airport and that would be a lot cheaper than a taxi.
My recollection of Jackson, Wyoming, is that it's a sleepy little town full of rich people. Generally safety problems aren't allowed in places like that. It's a long drive from Salt Lake to Jackson and you'd probably be better off taking a bus if that will work for you.
Federal travel per diem rates are lower in Salt Lake City than in Denver and Jackson. The lower price doesn't necessarily reflect the "quality" of the hotel. I wouldn't be worried too much about the name-brand hotels in downtown.
sojourner Member # 3134
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Thanks, Kiernan. What is NOx?
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Pollution, Ms. Sojourner.
But I think Salt Lake City is a great place; I was stationed at Hill AFB for about five months and while some of my colleagues were of the IHTFP (anyone who's "been in" can translate, or I will by private message), I found much of interest to do. My tour was to have been thirteen months, but Vietnam was winding down during 1969 and they were throwing bodies out of service (it is called a RIF - Reduction in Force) left and right.
Every major hotel brand is there - and even a regional brand named Little America with two properties; one upscale (Hilton Hyatt Marriott variety) and another more downscale (Holiday Inn Express, Courtyard).
But some may think they are in a "company town' for what the Mormon Church believes, goes (alcohol sales have been liberalized since I was there, but it is a city wide smoke free environment). While I am of a different religious faith, I have high respect for the values the Church sets forth (polygamy is only in the mind of an HBO TV show producer).
While no one is about to say any urban area is crime free, I think you will find less there than say in Denver.
While the city is mass transit minded to the extent they have a fledgling heavy (real) rail commuter system, there is an air quality problem - not every day but sometimes.
I must say, Ms. Sojourner, while some of your proposed destinations have left me with a 'why does she want to go there?", Salt Lake City does not; go for it, girl!
sojourner Member # 3134
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Thanks, Mr Norman. What does NOx actually stand for, Noxious Gases? No Oxygen? (I did figure out what IHTFP is.) Have you been to SLC much since 1969? I am assuming your impressions re crime etc are of more recent date.
My proposed destinations that leave you asking "Why?" are probably capitals I am trying to visit on my 50 capitals-by-train-boat-or-(ugh)-bus-if-needs-be tour. Which ones were most bizarre to you? Maybe I'll save those for last! After Salem Oregon and my recent Greyhound ride, I'm a little less excited about my capital plans!
I still have an antipathy to SLC because of what that city did to their glorious train station. But my info does say it may be the most prettily situated of all the state capitals. Since I'll be stopping there both coming and going from Jackson, hopefully I'll hit some pollution-free days.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Ms. Sojourner, my "why does she..." list is any that are not major cities in their own right, but then, I'm not a traveler.
While up to about twenty years ago, I was an inveterate traveler, my travels today (28 nights away from home YTD'08 - possibly 2 more) comprise that necessary to stay in touch with friends and family who mostly are in the Northeast. While my Amtrak riding is limited only to that when it is convenient to my travel needs, at least I know it is there, and not like, for example, my Niece (perfectly smart girl; Smith graduate - professional musician) when out here visiting her Uncle noted #3 passing and said 'you have Amtrak out here? I thought it just went from Boston to Washington".
I participate here because I somehow think, from observing railroad industry affairs for now over fifty years as well as being employed in such for eleven of those (and gone long enough that I feel free to speak), I have amassed knowledge that others here from largely a railfan and traveler perspective have simply not had the opportunity to amass themselves. Through the magic of the internet, I want to share that knowledge - while I still can.
AHALL Member # 3515
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I have stayed at the Little America in Salt Lake City twice, and it was great! They have a van that will pick-up and drop you at the Amtrak Station. Call the hotel, they will give you a local phone number to call. The station isn't too far from Little America. Also, the light rail system goes right in front of the hotel, it is free around the downtown area.
The Utah Capitol Building is worth the trip, and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir rehearsal on Thursday nights is an exciting experience.
I have also stayed in the hotels right off Temple Square, that required a taxi ride, again a fairly short trip but I wouldn't want to walk it, expecially at night in the commercial/warehouse district where the so-called Station is located.
I am not sure I would make an effort to see the Nebraska Capitol Building. Lincoln is a beautiful city, but the Capitol is a 1920s tall building with Art Deco influence. Interesting as it is the only state with a unicameral legislature (one body, no House & Senate), but not a "traditional" building.
Ray S Member # 3175
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I spend my summers in Jackson, Wy. A great place to visit. It is a very safe town. Easy drive from SLC if you get a car.
Call Central Reservations 888-838-6606 for all kinds of help. Or google JH Central Reservations and look at the site.
I rent the same two bedroom cabin and when I get overflow crowd visiting they stay at the Trapper or Ranch Inn. Both nice and in town. Walk to anywhere.
Feel free to contact me with any questions at all.
Ray
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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sojourner: A year ago tonight we arrived in SLC off #5 for our son's 39th birthday, and I believe we stayed at the Hampton Inn (no problem). The RR station is a little "out there" all right, but our son picked us up (the train was actually an hour early). At this time of year, you can be treated to the city of Helper's Christmas Parade which I think they time to the arrival of #5 (or at least they did for us).
Enjoy your trip!
Kiernan Member # 3828
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Nitrogen oxides. Nitric oxide. Nitrous oxide. Others. It's the brown stuff in the air that you see in Los Angeles and other cities. People in Southern California know that it's air pollution, but in Salt Lake they call it haze. If you don't know it's air pollution, you can't solve the problem.
sojourner Member # 3134
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Thanks Kiernan. I know the stuff, there's plenty when I go down to NYC! But I always thought it was sulfur dioxide, probably because of the old song from HAIR. (In fact, I thought nitrous oxide was laughing gas, but I guess I am someone who easily mixes up my chemicals! pun pun)
And thanks everyone for the info. Mike, when you say the RR station is a little "out there," do you think I'd have a problem getting from train to taxi, as I won't have someone picking me up?
AHall, I do know the look of the Lincoln capitol, and while it's not my favorite, it might make a nice change of pace from the others, since I am trying to visit all 50 (I have been to about 15 so far)! And since I'm going right by and it's not hard to access this city, I figure I'll stop overnight, esp as you say it's a nice city. Do you have any other advice on what to do downtown (assuming the Zephyr is early enough so that I have time to do something in addition to visit the capitol? My plan was to visit the capitol and then mosey up to the college, where there seem to be several museums, but I'm open to suggestions. Any hotel or restaurant recs? Is the Holiday Inn near the train station good, or should I go elsewhere?
notelvis Member # 3071
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I came into SLC from Sacramento in the wee hours about four years ago. I hailed a cab right at the station which took me to the airport where, at 6:00am, I rented a car and made a roundtrip drive up to the Golden Spike site at Promontory Summit, UT. I was back at the SLC airport in time to catch an afternoon flight home.
Cab fare at the time from Amtrak station to airport was about $15.00 and took maybe 10 minutes.
On another trip passing through SLC, this time renting a car and drivng to a railroad museum in Ely, NV in 2005, I stayed at the Microtel out by the airport. It was clean and cheap but not convienent for anyone not having a rental car
Kiernan Member # 3828
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You're right, Sojourner, about nitrous oxide, it is laughing gas and it's one many nasty things that come out of a car. Sulfur dioxide is relatively easy to control, just remove the sulfur from the fuel. In the presence of hydrocarbon and sunlight, the NOx turns into ground-level ozone, the primary pollutant. Because there's so much natural hydrocarbon--from pine trees, etc.--to control ozone you have to control NOx.
To paraphrase Tom Lehrer, when you go to the city, don't drink the water and don't breathe the air.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I can't recall if Ms. Sojourner has asked this Forum for any information regarding Pierre SD; I must wonder if there is any commercial surface transportation to get there. Lest we forget, "arf arf' is becoming "selective' with its markets nowadays.
While I guess it would be possible to get to Juneau AK either by cruise-ship for the moment (somebody IS going to start thinking about regulating the number of Love Tubs up that way for environmental reasons) or even scheduled Alaska Marine ferry service, but Honolulu will have to wait until she is prepared to board a flight, or whoops, possibly there is a positioning move being made by a US-flagged Love Tub from the mainland.
Even adventurers such as Paul Theroux and Michael Palin had to hop on big bird for some portions of their sojourns.
In closing, I would say, and of course with respect, this lady has indeed adopted a descriptive handle here at the Forum.
sojourner Member # 3134
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Actually I've already been to Juneau, Mr Norman, on a cruise out of Vancouver . . . but, alas, it was before I decided on my 50 capitols tour, and I only passed by the capitol on a cruise ship bus en route to the Mendenall Glacier! I don't think passing by really "counts," but we'll see how the finances are about getting back . . . I do some time soon take the Skeena, and if I can afford it I might catch an Alaska ferry from there to Juneau and then maybe Sitka, which I missed on the cruise . . . that way I'd visit the former capitol (of Russian America) as well! But we'll see. But I hear Juneau is planning a new capitol, maybe I ought to wait till then????
As for Honolulu, there are cruises out of San Diego or LA, and I do hope to take one. Only problem is, I don't know if I want to spent my short off-boat time in Honolulu visiting the capitol. The OLD capitol, that is the Hawaiian Palace, yes, but the new one, only if it's nearby. And that would also mean I'd probably not have time to go to Pearl Harbor, unless I can find a cruise that stops TWO DAYS in Honolulu area, which a few of them do. . . . well, we'll see. My ideal trip would of course be one ship out, another back, with my own time in between! but that doesn't seem possible given my financial constraints.
I don't think it would be too hard to get to Pierre, the Jefferson Line bus service out of Minneapolis goes there. But it's a nine hour trip, so if I do it, I only hope Jefferson Line is fairly nice, not like that icky Greyhound. But I suspect buses in the north and west in general are better; certainly, the Brewster Excursion bus I took in Canada was great (and Greyhound actually owns that company now!) The bus I took (admittedly short trip) from Boston to Concord NH was also perfectly fine, I think it is Vermont Transit. Concord was a nice small town, too; I enjoyed my overnight there and managed to see quite a bit of Boston too (including the capitol there), between the early bus back and noon train I caught. It was a very nice little trip for me.
Speaking of smaller capitols, one of the hardest will be Frankfort, KY, no bus there; I'd have to get to Lexington (already involves bus, and it's the dreaded disgusto Greyhound) and then take a taxi or limo unless the place I'm staying picks me up! Yet I hear Frankfort is an attractive small town; so I do hope to get there some day. I am just so off Greyhound now, it will have to be a while. . . .
Jefferson Line also goes from Minneapolis or St Paul (another capitol) to Des Moines, btw--a city that just had a nice profile in the travel section of the New York Times. And Burlington Transit goes to Des Moines too, from Galesburg IL for instance, or a longer trip from Galena, another place I really want to visit some time. One could also get off the Zephyr in Osceola for a Jefferson bus or Ottumwa for a Burlington bus, but one cannot count on the Zephyr getting me there in time for a bus, and I don't know that I want to overnight in either of those places, Radar O'Reilly notwithstanding, there doesn't seem to be too much to do. But Galesburg sounds like a good place for an overnight, and there are now 4 Amtraks a day (each way, total of 8) there!
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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For a hookup last May with Member Railroad Bob, there is a Holiday Inn Express at Galesburg about two miles from the station. That likely means a taxicab. Should he come this way again next year and invite for another hook up, I will likely use one of the 'four a day' (I did my usual - auto - this year). After all, I owe him a Dinner at Packing House (adjacent to the station).
ehbowen Member # 4317
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The old capitol (Iolani Palace) and the new capitol building are adjacent. It is easily possible to see the major sites in downtown Honolulu in a day's walking tour, and the weather for walking is normally grand. Here is one suggested walking tour.
Cruise ships normally transit to/from Hawaii when repositioning from Mexican cruises to Alaskan cruises in the spring and vice versa in the fall. Due to US regulations on passenger transport in foreign flag ships, they will not transport you from LA or San Francisco directly to Hawaii. Instead you must leave from Mexico to go to Hawaii, then sail from Hawaii to Vancouver on the return leg.
Two back-to-back cruises might be a bit much. Why don't you look into the possibility of hopping a freighter going to Hawaii, and then catch a cruise liner repositioning from Hawaii to Vancouver on the return? Search on "Freighter cruise travel"; you'll get plenty of hits.
ehbowen Member # 4317
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After doing a little more searching I see that there is at least one cruise line offering cruises from LA to Hawaii; the way they skirt the regulations is by including a stop in Mexico and calling it a trip to Mexico and back. The downside of this is that they WILL NOT sell you a partial ticket (LA-Honolulu) and let you arrange your own return; it would violate regulations.
Hawaii is a beautiful place; I would not care to cram all that Oahu has to offer into just one day. If your budget will stretch I still think the best option is a repositioning cruise one way and arrange your own travel (freighter or fly) the other. Then you can take your time.
John Hull Member # 4465
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Sojourner, Galesburg is a good place for a short stay. We were there in November last year off the bus from the Texas Eagle at Springfield, and stayed at the Best Western Prairie Inn. It was a good hotel, great food. There was a shuttle to and from the station. Sadly, on the day we were there, the railroad museum had shut for the winter and Knox College does not open on Saturday! After a couple hours walk round, we spent the rest of our time reading and watching TV at the station, until the Zephyr came in. We plan to go back soon, hopefully when the town is open, probably leaving the north-bound Chief and then continuing to Chicago on the new morning train. John
sojourner Member # 3134
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Eric, there are a number of cruises to Hawaii out of LA or San Diego and back. They tend to run Dec-Mar, so maybe they are a use of some the Alaska cruiseships when Alaska is not in play, but they aren't repositioning cruises. The ones I looked at did have that short stop in Mexico on the way back. There are also cruises IN Hawaii, that people fly to and then take, of course. Plus there are cruises from Hawaii to Tahiti and stuff!
As for the CA and back, most only have 1 day in Oahu but now that you tell me the palace and new capitol are adjacent, and have even given me that cool walking tour, I am even more tempted to take one of those cruises. True, I would not see as much of Oahu as I'd like, but the cruises also stop on 4 other islands and I think would be quite lovely. You are also At Sea for 4 days each way, but I'm sure I'd find something to do. So, we'll see how the budget is. . . . but it's definitely something I'm hoping to do in the next few years.
Honolulu certainly seems like one of the nicest of the capitals I haven't visited yet!
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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Sojourner, I have ridden Jefferson Lines a few times (but only to get to or from a train). They were, at the time, superior to Greyhound: nicer seats, cleaner, very pleasant drivers, and movies (if you like movies). This was all about 6-10 years ago, and I've heard Greyhound has improved.
In Osceola, the Jefferson stop is at a motel at the Osceola freeway exit, about 3-4 miles from downtown where Amtrak is. It appears to be a very nice motel, and I would recommend it if you would ever consider hopping off a westbound Zephyr and taking a morning Jefferson bus up to Des Moines. There is a restaurant next door called The Family Table, which I rate among my top ten anywhere, -if you like heaping portions of high-fat midwestern delicious home cooking. And you get a real dose of rural America when you experience the crowd. A good rule in the midwest is "eat where the locals eat". You will find it superior to any chain.
Your reference to Fargo as a bus destination confused me. Fargo is an Amtrak stop, although at a time Mr. Norman calls "oh-dark thirty". Bismarck is the capitol of ND and there may be a bus there from Fargo on I94. It used to be the main CHI-Seattle Greyhound line, but they have dropped a lot of routes.
In general, I have found small town motels in the northern Great Plains to be very clean and safe, more so then in the rest of the country.
sojourner Member # 3134
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Twin Star, thank you for the info. You make Osceola seem like fun. But I also like the idea of Galesburg and Galena; I'd go to Galesburg, overnight there, catch bus to Des Moines, spend a couple of nights there, then catch the bus to Galena, spend a couple of nights there, then bus back to Chicago and the LSL. Mr Hull, thanks for the Galesburg info. Did you get to see the Carl Sandburg site? That is another thing of interest to me there.
I don't know why I put in Fargo instead of Pierre, but I think I have done that before. I only hope I don't wind up in Fargo looking for a big domed building! Anyway, I've edited the post. Jefferson Lines does also service Pierre, only it's a much longer trip from Minneapolis. I don't know what I'll ultimately do re the Dakotas capitols, but I would like to combine anything I do with a visit to Mt Rushmore, if that is feasible without a car.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Re: Frankfort, KY - The former L&N rail line through town is now operated by RJ Corman, a regional shortline concern. RJ Corman has just purchased a recently retired Chinese steam locomotive which is en route to Kentucky at this time.
As RJ Corman already operates a 'for passengers' dinner train out of Bardstown, KY, I am hopeful that there is some slim possibility of steam excursions from Lexington to Frankfort with tickets available to the general public.
and the Kentucky capitol building is worth the trip for what it's worth!
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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Whoa, I didn't mean to imply Osceola was "fun", just a decent transfer point to sleep and eat. The motel that is the bus stop is a ways out of town, but overlooks the rail line. I once had to kill 12 hours in Osceola because the CZ was 3 hours late and I missed my bus connection. I got to watch corn grow, but no "fun" was involved.
mr williams Member # 1928
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On my first ever day in the States I found myself in Osceola at just after sunset frantically legging it to the Amtrak station. The Jefferson Lines bus had got in half an hour late meaning that a leisurely stroll became a mad dash.
I got to the station with three minutes to spare, drenched in sweat, only to find the CZ running 66minutes late!
Mind you, it did look to be a pretty little town (what I saw of it, that is!!!)
ps: since they've retimed the CZ the evening bus from Des Moines no longer connects with the westbound Zephyr at Osceola.
John Hull Member # 4465
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Sojourner, Sorry, we did not get to the Carl Sandberg site. Not having done much research on the city we did not really make best use of our time. Go to www.galesburg.org and look up 'attractions' and you should get a good outline of what is available to visit. Just be careful if you are there on a Saturday, especially in November, because several places are closed. John
ehbowen Member # 4317
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Eric, there are a number of cruises to Hawaii out of LA or San Diego and back. They tend to run Dec-Mar, so maybe they are a use of some the Alaska cruiseships when Alaska is not in play, but they aren't repositioning cruises. The ones I looked at did have that short stop in Mexico on the way back. There are also cruises IN Hawaii, that people fly to and then take, of course. Plus there are cruises from Hawaii to Tahiti and stuff!
You are correct, of course; I omitted the Hawaiian Islands cruises because I was thinking along the lines of practical (i.e., giving you more than one day to visit) transportation between the mainland and the islands, and for that the repositioning cruises (with air return) are about the only option. When I first checked for LA-Hawaii cruises I made the mistake of checking late spring (May) and summer; in those months the ships are working Alaska. As you note, there are several cruises to choose from in the winter months if you don't mind limited port time in Hawaii.
quote:As for the CA and back, most only have 1 day in Oahu but now that you tell me the palace and new capitol are adjacent, and have even given me that cool walking tour, I am even more tempted to take one of those cruises. True, I would not see as much of Oahu as I'd like, but the cruises also stop on 4 other islands and I think would be quite lovely. You are also At Sea for 4 days each way, but I'm sure I'd find something to do. So, we'll see how the budget is. . . . but it's definitely something I'm hoping to do in the next few years.
Here's something you can do for four days heading west. I have the 1985 edition of this travel guide, and if the current edition is as good as that one was then you are in for a treat. It (the 1985 edition) goes in depth about the different people groups which settled Hawaii, the history of the islands, as well as detailed information on sights to see (including the walking tour I took back in '86). Profusely illustrated with plenty of full-color photos. For the trip back...well, there's always plenty to do on a cruise ship. Live entertainment every night in the theater, karaoke in the lounge, and the food is awesome.
quote:Honolulu certainly seems like one of the nicest of the capitals I haven't visited yet!
I had the good fortune to make several short trips to Honolulu in the late '80's, courtesy of Uncle Sam and the US Navy. I took that walking tour (or its close cousin), as well as visiting Hanauma Bay, spending a night in a motel on the beach on the North Shore (very much out of the way, at the time), visiting the Kahuku sugar mill, finding some of the remnants of Oahu's one-time narrow gauge railway, as well as extensive behind-the-scenes explorations of Pearl Harbor and vicinity. There's a lot to do in Honolulu.
A note for when you visit: Bring plenty of good sunscreen, even if it's winter. Hawaii is the southernmost of all the states and the sun can be fierce. I "missed a spot" when preparing to snorkel in the bay and had a painful reminder for the rest of the week. Also, while the weather is temperate year-round, be prepared for a short, light rain shower just about every afternoon, like clockwork. Take a small plastic poncho or the like.
If you do make it to Pearl Harbor, stop by and see my Home Sweet Home 1985-1988 (USS Missouri), now moored there as a museum ship. Whenever you end up going, have a great trip!
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