Well, Mrs. Railroad Rich & I have been anxiously planning our big 2008 trip over the last few days. Here is what we have come up with:
Silver Meteor -- Winter Park to New York Lake Shore Ltd -- New York to Chicago Southwest Chief -- Chicago to Los Angeles spend 3 nights with my wife's son & his family in Pasadena
Coast Starlight -- Los Angeles to Seattle overnight in Seattle (probably at Pioneer Square Hotel, if they will allow a 1-night stay only) Cascade -- Seattle to Mount Vernon spend 2 nights with an old high school friend of my wife in Anacortes, WA
Cascade -- Mount Vernon to Vancouver VIA Rail Canadian -- Vancouver to Toronto overnight in Toronto (probably at Royal York)
Maple Leaf -- Toronto to Albany-Rensselaer overnight in the Albany area, since we don't want to spend the night in New York City -- (any ideas for nice places to stay near ALB, Ms. Sojourner?)
Empire Service -- Albany-Rensselaer to New York Silver Star -- New York back to Winter Park
We will be in bedrooms for ALL overnight segmemts (we agree with Mr. Norman that the only civilized way to travel overnight by rail is in sleeper accomodations!)
All of these connections are quite doable, IMO, if the schedules don't change dramatically with the spring/summer timetable. We're thinking of leaving June 30 -- we need to work out a couple details over the next few days, but I'll probably be booking the trip by this weekend.
STAY TUNED!!!!!!! More details to follow........
--Railroad Rich
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Rich, this sounds terrific. You and I are both lucky guys in that our spouses share our love of trains.
Have you stayed at the Royal York before? I thought it a nice hotel but overly pricey for what it offered. Still, pampering the spouse is not a bad policy.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
I'm pea green with envy. I know I couldn't do that on my meager 30k a yr salary and a job where I'm lucky to get a one week vacation every year. I guess I should just look forward to retirement and eye my pension plan occasionally. I get giddy when I get the opportunity to ride a corridor train a few hundred miles.
My dreamtrip happened about 2 years ago when I traveled from Los Angeles to New York on the LSL and then a metroliner to Philly...then I had to fly home the very next day from Philly to LAX. I don't anticipate being in a position to do that again for a very long time.
How many rail fans out there reading this are married to their jobs that don't pay SQUAT??!! To those of you who would rather be riding the rails than working for peanuts....CHEERS!!!!!!
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Wow Rich, that sounds great! Another option in Toronto is the Intercontinental - very elegant and about 1 1/2 blocks from the station. Also able to be reached via the covered walkway except for the last little bit by the hotel. It's probably not cheap either but you could compare the two. However, I went into the Royal York and it was indeed fantastic.
I did get a one night reservation at the Pioneer Square but that was for May.
Posted by Judy McFarland (Member # 4435) on :
Don't suppose you'd take me along? Sounds wonderful - on this snowy day in Milwaukee, I have the urge to go somewhere - ANYWHERE - on the train RIGHT NOW!
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
There is really only one hotel in downtown Albany -- I think it's a Hilton. There's also a Fairfield Inn not far east of the Renssalaer station, but it's pretty modest.
In Toronto, there's a decent Doubletree a couple of blocks east of Union Station, and a L'Hotel west of the station, near the CN Tower. where the rooms have a killer view right down the west throat into the station. Nice hotel, too.
In Seattle, my pick would be the Edgewater, which is on a pier built out into Elliot Bay (when it opened, all the rooms had "no fishing" signs). It has recently been redecorated in a Northwest motif, very attractive, has a nice restaurant, all the rooms have water views (how could they not?) and all the attractions of Alaska Way are close by.
Have a great trip!
Posted by Ham Radio (Member # 6587) on :
We'd all like to stow away in your luggage. Have a great time.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Correction: L'Hotel is now the Intercontinental Hotel Toronto. It's adjacent to the Toronto Convention Center and the CN Tower. *Very* nice hotel.
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
Amtraxmaniac--Im like you--in a job that pays squat!! (Fed govt). Of course, its better than minimum wage, and i do get more than one week off every year.
But thats why i usually travel coach. Its either that or nothing at all (sorry Mr. Norman, i know you say either take sleeper or stay home).
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Rich, not to put a damper on things but is there any reason you are going in he hottest part of the summer? We always try to travel before or after labor day. It is cooler,cheaper,less crowded and all the kids have gone back to school
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
A great itinerary and it should work well. A couple thoughts. Rather than stay in Albany, another option is to go into NY then take NJT to Morristown, NJ. Then a short walk from Convent Station stop to: http://www.themadisonhotel.com/
During morning rush hour it's a 45 min ride into Penn station (otherwise 1 hour). Hotel rates are cheaper than NYC and certainly closer than Albany.
To try a different route you could take the Meteor to Washington then the Capitol and return on the LSL.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: I'm pea green with envy. I know I couldn't do that on my meager 30k a yr salary and a job where I'm lucky to get a one week vacation every year. I guess I should just look forward to retirement and eye my pension plan occasionally. I get giddy when I get the opportunity to ride a corridor train a few hundred miles.
My dreamtrip happened about 2 years ago when I traveled from Los Angeles to New York on the LSL and then a metroliner to Philly...then I had to fly home the very next day from Philly to LAX. I don't anticipate being in a position to do that again for a very long time.
How many rail fans out there reading this are married to their jobs that don't pay SQUAT??!! To those of you who would rather be riding the rails than working for peanuts....CHEERS!!!!!!
I don't know if you use a credit card for gasoline purchases or not BUT that's what I use my Amtrak Guest Rewards credit card for. I drive about 85 miles each weekday and the points accumulate quickly.
THAT'S how I manage to get a first class Amtrak trip every 9 months or so.......the issue I have is finding enough TIME to maximize my point value.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Well, it looks like we will be adding a day at the beginning of the trip, so we can be with my wife's son & family for the entire 4th of July weekend, and we'll be adding a couple days to the end, since my wife's friend from N Washington wants us to stay for a few days longer than we had originally planned.
Thanks for all the comments -- to answer your question, train lady -- we travel in July for 2 reasons: 1) to get te maximum daylight on our trip so we can see the most, and 2) to take advantage of the 4th of July holiday (which means I have to take 1 less day of annual leave!)
Henry -- yes I have stayed at the Royal York before. It is nice, and certainly convenient to Toronto Union Station!
Palmland -- concerning your alternate route of Meteor to WAS and Capitol to CHI, then return on the Lake Shore -- we did the Capitol before, and want something different. Also, coming back, through Toronto, the obvious choice was the Maple Leaf (which I have never ridden).
One more question, however -- the last time I was on the Canadian, I of course was alone and traveled in a roomette. With the 2 of us, we will be in a bedroom on the Canadian -- how do the bedrooms on the Canadian compare to AMTRAK (Superliners/Viewliners) -- is the bottom bunk of comparable size so that we can both fit in it? Are the overall dimensions of the bedrooms about the same as on AMTRAK?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Wow, Mr. Presley, for being such a staunch passenger rail advocate, you do "have the rubber on the road'.
I realize most of your miles are in pursuit of a livelihood, but thinking back, the last auto I owned completely within my working years was Jan 1992-Aug 1998 that had 98K when it bid adios. However it was augmented by a leased auto Dec 96 to Dec 98 that had 24K, hence 122K is more like the correct mileage for the seven year period. My most recent Jan 1999-Mar 2005 comprising 4.6 years of working and 1.5 of retirement had 78K. The current auto, acquired since retirement, and coming up on 3yrs, has 25.
But I'm the guy around here who, while uses Amtrak and having had "more positives than negatives' experiences, doesn't go out of his way to ride 'em (I definitely consider many of the rail excursions chronicled on these pages as "going out of the way.....").
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
One more question, however -- the last time I was on the Canadian, I of course was alone and traveled in a roomette. With the 2 of us, we will be in a bedroom on the Canadian -- how do the bedrooms on the Canadian compare to AMTRAK (Superliners/Viewliners) -- is the bottom bunk of comparable size so that we can both fit in it? Are the overall dimensions of the bedrooms about the same as on AMTRAK? [/QB][/QUOTE]
You will find the lower berth in The Canadian's bedroom not as wide as in a deluxe bedroom on Amtrak. Unless both people are extremely thin it would almost impossible for two to occupy one bed. But of course there is no harm in giving it a try. As for comparative comfort, the Via beds have a nice thick mattress that is far better than Amtrak's thin variety. I would also advise that you make a special request for Bedroom "F" as it is bigger than all the other bedrooms, about 18" wider, which makes it a very attractive accommodation especially as Via does not charge an extra fare for the extra wide bedroom. To compare it to an Amtrak Deluxe bedroom, I would say that "F" is just about as wide, but the other bedrooms somewhat smaller than the deluxe. If you have lots of spare cash, the ultimate accommodation is the drawing room (that Via now calls a triple bedroom). This has two lower berths and an upper along with a sofa and two chairs. That way no one has to struggle going up and down a ladder to the upper berth. The downside is that it is very expensive and often there is only one on the train (in the Park Car). I know you will love The Canadian, as I ride it at least once a year and find it most enjoyable.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
That's a great trip, Mr RRRich!
I do have two questions:
(a) Are you overnighting in NYC on the first part of your trip? If not, why are you going all the way there and taking the Lakeshore Ltd to Chicago, rather than getting off in Washington DC and taking the Capital Ltd? As you are taking the Maple Leaf eastbound, you'll be going over pretty much the same route as the LSL (other than the little chunk between Cleveland and Buffalo) so why duplicate? The Capital Ltd is a pretty ride esp in a light time of year like July. And if you get off in DC on your westbound trip, you'll have a nice chunk of time to enjoy the city, where so many museums are free (If it's very hot and sunny, I carry my umbrella as a parasol on the Mall! or if it's really hot I suppose you could take a taxi over to the Mall; I also always lunch in Chinatown and often stop in the National Gallery.) Plus, if you go all the way up to change trains in NYC, isn't the connection to the LSL risky if your Meteor is late?
(b) Why are you taking the Silver Star southbound at the end, instead of the Meteor? It means, if you stay in Albany, you'd have to catch a rather early train to make the connection, and you never know, even though the Empire Service is usually fairly reliable, it's been known to be late esp if there are heat slowdowns or trackwork or something. So I'd take the Silver Meteor for this last leg if at all possible. And if you ask the Amtrak people to give you an earlier train from Albany down to NYC, you would have time for a free NYC stopover as well, leaving your luggage in the ACELA lounge there.
With regard to Albany, the downtown hotel to which RResor refers is no longer a Hilton, it's a Crowne Plaza. It's been getting kinda pricey but maybe not in July; however, it's no longer the only hotel downtown, there is a rather nice Hampton Inn plus I believe now another (probably pricey) boutique-ish hotel in a redone older building, called 74 State (guess what the address is?). Anyway, the Crowne Plaza does have a free shuttle, which will save you cab fares (remember the Albany station is actually across the river in Rensselaer--fares would be $12-15 with the tip, I think, maybe more now with rising fuel costs); the hotel shuttle will pick you up at the Albany-Rensselaer train station if you phone them (assuming your Maple Leaf isn't so excruciatingly late that the shuttle has stopped running). OTOH the Hampton Inn includes a pretty good breakfast, and the rates are likely quite a bit lower, and it's quite nice and new.
Re the Royal York in Toronto: I've never stayed in that one, but if you join the Fairmont Presidents Club (free to join), you can often get discounts at their hotels, esp in summer (or winter) and/or on weekends. Of course, these aren't offered until closer to travel dates, so you might want to book at another hotel too & cancel it if the Fairmont comes through. Also, you may want to consider 2 nights in Toronto; it's a great city. For all it's great accommodations, don't count on your VIA Rail trip being on time; mine (I went only Jasper to Vancouver) last May was 3 hours late getting into Jasper and a bit more than that getting into Toronto.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
What's a credit card? LOL
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Wow, Mr. Presley, for being such a staunch passenger rail advocate, you do "have the rubber on the road'.
I realize most of your miles are in pursuit of a livelihood, but thinking back, the last auto I owned completely within my working years was Jan 1992-Aug 1998 that had 98K when it bid adios. However it was augmented by a leased auto Dec 96 to Dec 98 that had 24K, hence 122K is more like the correct mileage for the seven year period. My most recent Jan 1999-Mar 2005 comprising 4.6 years of working and 1.5 of retirement had 78K. The current auto, acquired since retirement, and coming up on 3yrs, has 25.
But I'm the guy around here who, while uses Amtrak and having had "more positives than negatives' experiences, doesn't go out of his way to ride 'em (I definitely consider many of the rail excursions chronicled on these pages as "going out of the way.....").
Valid reasons for living 40 plus miles from work......some having to do with a smaller mortgage and others family related. Perhaps someday work will be closer but this is a routine I've kept for more than a decade now.
And of course there is my wife's family....they've all migrated back to the Orlando area which means a couple of trips to the Sunshine state each year. Amtrak was at best a roundabout option before......and is not one at all with the Piedmont no longer connecting with the Silver Star coming from Florida.
What I would really, really enjoy is a passenger train (with through sleeper of course) departing Asheville, NC in the mid-afternoon connecting in Columbia, SC with the Silver Star. THAT is a train I could use!!!
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Thanks for all your comments, everyone--
Ms. Sojourner -- to answer your questions, we are taking the Lake Shore from NYP to CHI rather than the Capitol, since we took the Capitol last time, and I want to do something different this year. As far as connection time goes, with the new schedules which will be in effect for the summer, the Meteor arrives in NYP at 11:34 AM, and the Lake Shore doesn't leave until 4 PM -- I think a 4 1/2-hr connection is doable -- I've rarely been on the Meteor when it has been more than 3 or 4 hrs late.
Concerning taking the Star southbound, again, since we are going N on the Meteor, I wanted us to take a different train coming home, even though I know the 2 trains are very similar. Leaving ALB at 6:55 AM, I don't think there will be "heat restrictions" that early in the AM. Are the Empire Corridor trains really that late, though? Train 234 originates at ALB at 6:55 AM, so I assumed it would likely not be more than an hour late or so for that short of a trip.....
Thanks for the hotel ideas for Albany -- is there anything on the Rensselaer side of the river near AMTRAK?
Royal Train -- thanks for the info on the Canadian bedrooms. In looking at the diagrams from the VIA Rail Canada web site and comparing them to the diagrams in the AMTRAK timetable, it appears that the VIA bedrooms are slightly larger than either Superliner or Viewliner bedrooms.
Last night I booked our trip with AMTRAK and VIA through a North American Rail Pass -- which did NOT save me much money over the fare I would have gotten if were to continue to book each segment on-line, and book AMTRAK separately from VIA. When I talked to the VIA agent, however, she was wanting to charge me $2055.90 PER PERSON for our accommodations in the BR on the Canadian, which is the EXACT price I would have gotten if I were to book the VIA part separately, and not on a North America Rail Pass. I asked her about that, and she then apologized and said the price would only be a $1268 per person accommodation charge with the Rail Pass, which still seems high.
Therefore, another question for Royal Train -- why does VIA charge an accommodation charge for each person if 2 people are traveling together in the same sleeper accommodation? Shouldn't they just charge 1 accomodation charge for the double bedroom, like AMTRAK does?
Anyway, sorry my this EXCEPTIONALLY long post (for me!!) I'll keep y'all posted on things!
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Oh, one more thing -- when I booked our trip last night, for some reason, the AMTRAK agent couldn't get us our seats from Seattle to Mt. Vernon and Mt. Vernon to Vancouver on the Cascade. She said that service "wasn't in the system"..?????????????? Anyone know what is going on? I'm sure there aren't any plans to discontinue to Cascade service this summmer, are there?
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
RRRich, I don't remember Mount Vernon being a stop on the Cascades, but maybe I'm wrong!
Last year, when my friend & I booked on VIA Rail, there was a special discount if one person was over 60 or 65 (I forget which, but my friend is over 65 so it didn't matter). It was quite a big discount, 50% off her companion's fare. Many people we met on the train were using that same discount!
To answer you question about the Empire service, No, I think if you catch the 6:55AM, you will be fine. I just thought maybe you didn't want to get up that early, to get over the Rensselaer station etc.; or that you might want to spend some free time in NYC.
Re hotels by Rensselaer station, there may be, but not RIGHT by the train station and, other than the train station, I think the area is pretty deserted at night, so I wouldn't recommend staying over there, esp without a car. I mean, I could be wrong, but I can't recommend anything.
You know, it strikes me that sometimes in summer you can get better rates than usual at hotels in NYC, though maybe not (with the low dollar, foreign tourists gobble everything up and come over to go shopping!. We've stayed at the Ramada Plaza New Yorker at W34th St & 8th Av, just catty corner from Penn Station (rooms a bit dusty and dingy but adequate, location excellent, you can roll over from Penn Station very easily); and at the Ramada Eastside on the corner of Lexington & E30th St (rooms were nicer--though it's about 4 years since we stayed here!--& this place included a fairly nice breakfast, but it's also further, 5 long blocks, figure 10 short ones; probably too far with luggage; but a taxi would probably be under $10 depending on traffic). I'm not saying these hotels are as nice as the ones I mentioned in Albany, and they are certainly overpriced, but it may be more convenient for you, all things considered. And you can check as the date nears in case maybe prices come down, inc at hotels.com or expedia.com
Have also stayed fairly recently at the Club Quarters on W45th or W46th, between 5th & 6th Aves (6th Ave is now often known as Ave of the Americas). No lobby to speak of but the rooms were nice (small but spotless, modern, kinda cool) but I'm not sure it would be available on a weeknight. It's was walking distance for us, but maybe not for you, 1 1/2 long blocks (figure 3) plus about 13 short ones--really, it's way too far with the kind of luggage you're bound to have! A taxi would be a little more than the other, esp as there is more traffic heading that direction, I think. . . . This Club Quarters is usually available from hotels.com on the Internet.
Of course there are other hotels really close to Penn Station besides the Ramada Plaza New Yorker, some of them probably nicer, but I suspect they cost more! For instance, there's a Hampton Inn called the Hampton Madison Square Garden (116 W 31st; don't let them put you in the one in Chelsea, they'll say it's close to Penn Station but it isn't walking distance with luggage).
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: Thanks for all your comments, everyone--
Therefore, another question for Royal Train -- why does VIA charge an accommodation charge for each person if 2 people are traveling together in the same sleeper accommodation? Shouldn't they just charge 1 accomodation charge for the double bedroom, like AMTRAK does?
I have purchased the North American Rail Pass for many years (last year being an exception) and I have found that there is only a small saving. As for how Via calculates the sleeper supplement, I can assure you it is very confusing. As I travel alone in a bedroom Via has to calculate the bedroom supplment plus the Pass. If two people are travelling together then both would have to have two passes and then Via somehow calculates the sleeper surcharge. Unlike Amtrak Via does not simply add the sleeper to the coach fare. The Silver and Blue fare is calculated as one fare, not an add on from coach. So when a NA Rail pass is factored in Via has a mysterious formula that I have never been able to figure out. Like you I have challenged the fares, and suddenly they back down and quote a cheaper fare. This is probably not a very good explanation, but when I have questioned Via on it their explanations have never been very clear.
Posted by David (Member # 3) on :
As royaltrain says, VIA's sleeper fares are an inclusive fare and not a coach fare plus sleeper supplement. But in order to charge a sleeper upgrade fare to holders of the North American Rail Pass, the Canrailpass and employee/retirees passes, VIA's computer breaks the fare down to the coach portion and the sleeper portion. I've used the Canrailpass a few times and I can never figure it out exactly, but it's close.
It seems to me that VIA takes the regular sleeper fare - and advance purchase discounts are available in the off-peak periods - and subtracts the coach fare that the passenger(s) would have paid if they were travelling coach, then the balance becomes the sleeper upgrade charge. For example, a summer trip on the Canadian costs $1958 (Canadian $) and that is for one person in a roomette (single bedroom in new terminology) or each of two in a double bedroom. The quoted full fare of $2055.90 would include the 5% GST (Federal sales tax) which you wouldn't have to pay if purchasing an upgrade with a North American Rail Pass, although Canrailpass holders do have to pay it. If the passenger was going coach, the full coach fare would be $750, so the upgrade difference should be $1208. The upgrade charge of $1268 that RRRICH was quoted would appear to include the 5% GST. I suggest you challenge VIA on that! As royaltrain says, it gets confusing when one person wants a double bedroom. But from the examples I've seen, I think the passenger gets a good deal. The normal supplement for single use of a double room (except on the Renaissance sleepers) is 50%, but it seems less with a pass. Perhaps VIA gives a credit for that 50% supplement as well.
For VIA 1 travel on the corridor trains, the supplements have always been easy to figure out when I've used the Canrailpass. VIA simply charges the difference between the full coach fare and the inclusive VIA 1 fare, so for example that would be an upgrade charge of $44 between Toronto and London and $74 between Toronto and Montreal.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Thanks David and Royal -- yes I agree the VIA fares are confusing. David -- there will be 2 of us in one BR, however, not just 1, so I still don't understand why we EACH have to pay a sleeper supplement. I believe our reservation does in fact include the GST, however. I will challenge VIA about that, but I may not be able to do so until we get to Vancouver where I can talk to someone in person who may know what they're talking about.
Ms. Sojourner -- Mt. Vernon has always been a stop on the Cascade route. When we picked up our passes and tickets at WPK today, the agent was able to add our seats from SEA-MVW and MVW-VAC onto our passes. So we are all set now, at least with the AMTRAK portion. We will get our VIA tickets after I call VIA and give them our pass nos. But first, I need VIA to credit the original on-line reservation I made, and since they have already mailed the tickets out, they can't do that until I return the tickets to VIA. They have canceled the original reservation, however.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
The VIA tickets we got were Silver & Blue service, I think; 2nd person half price. We did not have a bedroom; we had two very nice, large bunks--wide, with comforters. True, there are curtains, not doors, but it wasn't noisy. However, I did get sick on the train, not sure why! But otherwise, it was fine. There were only 2 other people, an elderly couple, in our immediate area, sharing the bathroom; but more sharing our dome and dining cars, with a little cocktail party downstairs from the former too; it was fun to meet them.
Posted by David (Member # 3) on :
quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: Thanks David and Royal -- yes I agree the VIA fares are confusing. David -- there will be 2 of us in one BR, however, not just 1, so I still don't understand why we EACH have to pay a sleeper supplement. I believe our reservation does in fact include the GST, however. I will challenge VIA about that, but I may not be able to do so until we get to Vancouver where I can talk to someone in person who may know what they're talking about.
...
I can't explain why, but VIA sets their sleeping car rates on a per person basis. It has been that way since 1995 when meals were included in the sleeper fares. So in the Budd sleepers - including the other trains which run them - whether a passenger occupies a roomette (for one) or a double bedroom (for two) the fare per person is exactly the same. In other words, if two people travelling together take a double bedroom or two single roomettes they will pay the same. The fares seem high - but Silver & Blue is expensive - but with a rail pass there is a credit of $750 each off the usual per person charge so it is a very good deal. The reduction for having a rail pass is a lot less in the off season because the sleeper fare is a lot less as well.