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The United Rail Passenger Alliance newsletter for March 12 states that reliable sources indicate that Amtrak is seriously looking at restoring the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans as soon early June. I hope this is true as we need the Sunset here in Florida to restore the link to the west. However, it seems odd that no other advocacy groups have posted this info if it is true. As far as I know, the destroyed stations along the Mississippi coast have yet to be replaced and the crossing signals likely would need to be retimed. Has anyone out there heard anything? It may be time for us all to check our sources.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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I saw that on their website also. I have no information on this, inside or otherwise. But my gut feeling is that this will not happen. I would LOVE to be wrong. That would be fantastic to see the service FINALLY restored.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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Where did you see that? The URPA website as of tonight doesn't have any postings dated later than March 2.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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There is mention of it on trainorders.com (March 12, 10:52 am).
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Volks, anyone care to note where URPA is HQ'd?
"All politics are local".
Let us also be mindful that corrupting advocacy group's webpages seems to be a "crime of the moment". As I noted at another topic regarding the Starlight and possible fake Amtrak correspondence, another advocacy group may have been a victim of such (the writer did not follow Amtrak protocol that I know first hand to be the case).
Of course with my often noted distaste of advocacy groups, I could be on the wrong end of Claude Rains as in "round up the usual suspects".
smitty195 Member # 5102
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For some reason it's not up on their website yet. But here is a paste/copy of the thing they sent out in their email list:
IMPORTANT NEWS UPDATE ABOUT THE SUNSET LIMITED. The moment may be close at hand. Reports from various reliable sources have indicated the Sunset Limited may be back in Florida, perhaps as early at the first of June.
A recent meeting in New Orleans involving various state representatives and an honorable high Amtrak operating official focused on service east of New Orleans. The Amtrak operating official reportedly indicated he was in favor of restoration of passenger train service east of New Orleans, but it would ultimately be up to Amtrak’s Board of Directors to make a final decision.
Keep in mind NOTHING comes before the Amtrak board unless it has gone through Amtrak’s executive bureaucracy. If a project has been blessed by Amtrak executives, it is usually blessed by the board of directors.
If this proves to be true, it would involve full train service including sleepers and food service cars.
We will keep you posted of any further developments or other verifiable information.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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Do the words "honorable high Amtrak operating official" suggest this is a hoax?
4021North Member # 4081
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I didn't see anything on the URPA site that says where their headquarters are, though they are chartered in Minnesota and have officers in California, Texas and Florida.
While the Sunset Limited may be of special interest to those along the route, it is of interest also to people throughout the country because it is an integral part of the Amtrak system and an important long-distance route. While this latest might be nothing more than a rumor, it also might be a sign that certain people at Amtrak are serious about restoring the Sunset East. Any way one looks at it, the issue deserves attention because the Sunset East is supposed to be running now, according to Amtrak's congressional reauthorization law. It's not some dream about future service.
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URPA's site shows a physical address in Jacksonville.
Well, Mr. 4021, after a peep around SaveAmtrak's site, I could dare say that RAILPAC and URPA appear quite tame and civilized.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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Anything involving Trainorders referencing unnamed Amtrak officials is suspect in my view. There have been dozens of rumors over there fitting the same profile which never amounted to anything. One forum member staked his reputation on the veracity of one such rumor, but once it had been proven false we never heard from that guy again.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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AFAIK, that guy on Trainorders was kicked off after that. Apparently, he stirred up quite a mess with the forum, and the administrator banned him. At least, that's what I was told happened. I do not have first-hand knowledge of this. However, as you said, he never showed up again.
Coincidentally, there is someone on Trainorders right now who makes silly posts every so often, and he did another one yesterday in reference to #14 (Coast Starlight) coming back to full service/full route on April 1st. He was absolutely, positively certain of this because he "read it on the internet". About an hour after he posted his comments (and people replied, basically saying he was hallucinating), the moderator deleted the entire thread.
With that said, I do know that the UP has told Amtrak that they plan to have the line open for them on April 1st. However, I take this information with a fairly large-sized grain of salt. The UP folks back in Omaha seemed to be in denial about the size and scope of the Frazier landslide, until several days after it happened. They seemed to think something of that magnitude would just take a week or two. Anyone who saw the initial photos of the slide, with NO expertise in this area (such as myself), knew that this was an enormous project that would take quite some time to repair. Personally, I don't think the left hand at UP knew what the right hand was doing or saying. But the good news is that they are working extremely hard on this massive project, and it will be done as quickly as humanly possible.
SunsetLtd Member # 3985
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K i'll throw in my two cents here. I talked to my good friends at the ticket office here in ELP and they said that they've heard tons of rumors but this one may turn out to be true. They said that various officals above them have been fighting to restore the service, and they apparently finnaly won the battle. We'll know for sure when or if, Amtrak enters the stations back into the reservation system.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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Just an update to my Coast Starlight post a few lines up:
Amtrak has now extended by bus (Sacramento to Portland) through at least April 20th. Those holding tickets for a TRAIN during that time period will be called by Amtrak to advise that it's now a bus.
SilverStar092 Member # 2652
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There have been lots of Sunset rumors ever since service to FL was curtailed so it's always good to take rumors with a grain of salt. However, I'd rather hear talk about restoration than the silence that has permiated the route for many months until last week. The organization that reported this has not listed rumors before and has seemed to have a pipeline to good info. They have been the one public drumbeat for restoring this missing link so I am confident that there at least is talk about bringing it back. Whether that translates into reality is another thing but there seems reason to hope. Amtrak has kept the train's FL-NOL leg in the timetable for quite some time with the notation that service is suspended which implies it is not totally gone. Of course, I must admit I have always wondered if they wouldn't have to restore service sometime before giving "Train Off" notice to keep things legal so one never knows. But for now, I shall hope for the best.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Again I remind all that I believe the Sunset East situation is analagous to the Korean War. While the hostilities ceased almost 56 years ago, North and South Korea remain in a state of war. (well, we had Ping Pong Diplomacy with China; guess we now have Philharmonic Diplomacy with DPRK).
There may not be any change anytime soon in the existing public timetable presentation, let alone restoration of the train. Much as it may be difficult to accept within a community of passenger train riders (and I really think the %tge of participants here that actually get out and ride is much higher than it is at other sites), no one outside of a few advocacy groups, really cares one way of the other when or if Sunset East is restored.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Going Off-topic (because that's what I do best) since I'm now thinking of olive drab uniforms and Philharmonic Diplomacy......
Earlier in my life (for the possibility of GI Bill Money) I was an enlisted Army Bandsman in training at the Armed Forces School of Music at Little Creek, VA Naval Amphibious Base. I don't recall the particulars but one evening we were dressed up in our Class A uniforms and hustled aboard buses for a ride down to the Symphony Hall in Norfolk for a concert presented by one of the Soviet Union's top military bands. Their uniforms were outstanding and the band was pretty good too. (albeit a notch or two below the top US Military Bands.)
The next day as we resumed our life of learning to march military ceremonies and play military music, the Soviets visited for a tour of our school. A friend of mine who was having a private lesson looked out the window into the corridor and saw four Soviets listening in through the door. My friend says to the NCO teaching him "Sergeant, the Russians are at the door." Instructor says "Well open the door and invite them to come in."
My friend later worried that he hoped there was no potential of a Court Martial for inviting the Soviets into a trumpet lesson!
Glasnost.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Gil -- while I respect most everything you say on this forum, I wouldn't make the statement that "no one really cares whether the Sunset East is restored." All of us in Florida would love to see it restored, so we can take the train to New Orleans or Los Angeles without having to go through NYC and Chicago, but I think we have all pretty much accepted the fact that the Sunset East most likely will not be restored. But as I said, it's not that we "don't care" -- we just know what reality is. I have ridden the Sunset East personally many times, and would like to ride it again.
If the Sunset East were running, my wife and I would definitely take that to LAX on our vacation this summer, but what we have reserved is #98 to NYP, the "Late For Sure" to Chicago, then the SWC to LAX -- one more night on the train than we would have if we were able to take #1 all the way from WPK to LAX.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Rich, I have used Sunset East myself as part of ORL-1-NOL-58-CHI journeys, but that in itself does not mean I'm advocating for its restoration. Even though New Orleans is a "complete zero" to me (pre or post Katrina notwithstanding), the "optional route' (an actual railroad term) return would be a ++++ for considering rail journeys to Florida.
The fact remains, it was the weakest ridership link in the Amtrak LD system, does not have any political patron saint out there, and had a less than stellar train performance.
But I will acknowledge that "the stations were all destroyed' is a 'weak one', for if the resumption order was given, 'double wide" housetrailers could be in place overnight.
amtraxmaniac Member # 2251
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The Sunset Limited, in general, was and remains potential wasted. It WAS Amtrak's ONLY Coast to Coast train. It has been plagued over the years by its on time performance (or lack of ANY performance), less than daily service, and I would venture to say lack of reliable connectivity to ANY OTHER TRAIN. Anyone who has tried connecting from the Slugset veryLimited to the Crescent might testify to this: you might as well HOPE the train is 8 to 10 hours late into New Orleans because you would have a more direct connection to the Crescent. But good luck calling your hotel in New Orleans to cancel your reservation since you'll BE SPENDING THE NIGHT ON THE TRAIN!!!
But I digress....
IF (and that would be a BIG IF) the Sunset Limited had a better cross country record (LAX to Orlando)there is a ton of potential. The Sunset East AND West are in some politcally rich areas (again, if those public officials gave a rip) California, Texas, and Florida are all politically rich. In terms of passenger bases, you have several cities on this route of over a million people (ie: Los Angeles, San Antonio (with connections to/from Dallas), Houston, New Orleans, Jacksonville, and Orlando).
I wonder if UPRR has any REAL interest in adding capacity to the western portion of this line, and maybe someone in here can tell me if CSX has made any efforts east of New Orleans.
I tend to look at things in terms of utility and market potential. The Sunset Limited COast to Coast has HUGE market potential.
I also believe that it is absolutely EMBARRASING that someone traveling from the Southeast has to travel all the way up to the Northeast AND THEN Midwest (Chicago) to get to Southern California. At the VERY least, Amtrak needs to provide direct service between Chicago and Florida...an idea that has been thrown around in other threads.
4021North Member # 4081
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quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: I think we have all pretty much accepted the fact that the Sunset East most likely will not be restored...it's not that we "don't care" -- we just know what reality is...
I may sound a little peeved over this, but there are a lot of people out there who are not going to accept it. The mere fact that restoring Amtrak routes has been difficult during the last several decades means little. Are we to think that the next thirty years of Amtrak is going to be the same as the last thirty years? Let's not give up so easily.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: I wonder if UPRR has any REAL interest in adding capacity to the western portion of this line....,
Patrick--
Dig out your November 2007 TRAINS for a review of the nature and scope of the infrastructure capacity improvements UP is making to the Sunset Route with stakeholder's $$$ and without seeking a penny from the the public trough.
Only hitch; I highly doubt if such is being done with the intention of handling more passenger trains, although likely the existing tri-weekly Sunset's performance will be favorably affected.
Amtrak207 Member # 1307
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Speculation: the glory of the Internets!
The last time someone used the phrase "a very reliable source on the internet(s)" I almost lost my poker face talking to him. Be reasonable here, folks! Besides, if Am wanted to sell tickets for this (you know this IS a travel-oriented industry...) they would announce it as far in advance as possible so they could fill up a few trains during peak travel periods, helping them serve more people and recover as much as possible.
That being said, if an when this service is restored, party at my place!
amtraxmaniac Member # 2251
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I'm thinking while On Time Percentage has to do with UPRR capacity, the frequency of service has MORE to do with Amtrak's lack of rolling stock. I don't believe we're going to see more than 3 days a week for a while yet...until Beech Grove gets to crackin' at least.
SilverStar092 Member # 2652
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Like RRRich, I don't consider the Sunset East irrelevant. Here in North Florida our only option for travel to or from downstate points is to fly aboard commuter planes at horrific prices or drive and tackle heavy traffic downstate. For anyone interested in rail travel between Florida and the west, it is necessary to travel via Washington, DC which turns away lots of poential customers. If we had a Florida to Chicago train, the Sunset East would not be quite so critical. When the Sunset was extended to Miami, ridership realized its great potential and the train ran pretty close to schedule. The Bayou Canot accident hurt this momentum and Amtrak seemed to shy away from promoting it completely. Then Amtrak shortened the end point to Sanford and later Orlando, changed days of the week for the worse, and held down ridership by running just 3 days a week. Then the SP and later UP meltdowns hurt even more as the trains ran late and sometimes were terminated in New Orleans. The solution is to this is easy: use the City of New Orleans train sets to connect NOL and FL.
amtraxmaniac Member # 2251
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I've ridden the train a handful of times to New Orleans. Just by chance, the train terminated at New Orleans three out of those five times. The last time it was annulled, it was running 14 hrs late. There were a handful of passengers stranded in New Orleans in tears planning to hotel it in NOL a night and take the Crescent the next morning...missed the Cresent by 1 hr.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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I will believe service restoration when there are two long blasts on a Diesel at New Orleans Union Station, and a train starts rolling East.
Until then, it's all arcane knowledge and Indian Lore.
dixieflag Member # 7454
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I find it completely unacceptable that no Amtrak service exists east of NO. If the politicians would scratch just some of the "pork" and "earmarks," Amtrak could have at least a share of available funding.
SilverStar092 Member # 2652
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I went by the Tallahassee station this evening and everything is as it was left when Amtrak snuck out of town. The depot is in fine shape and the waiting room is in great condition, Amtrak signs still direct folks to the station and the platform lights still come on at sundown. There's only one thing missing: a passenger train. Like the Pensacola station, there still is a flyer in the window that states that due to Hurricane Katrina the Sunset Limited is only running between LA and San Antonio, the Crescent New York to Meridian, and the City of New Orleans runs Chicago to Hammond, LA. Amtrak has never bothered posting updated signs.
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